Mosin-Nagant user thread

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It is normal be careful not to over clean that can do more harm than good. sometimes you have to surrender to a grey patch. Here are some good links on rifle cleaning this is pretty much how i clean my rifles. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu48.htm and http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu13.htm These milsurp have a lot of copper in the bores i use Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner to remove it you won't believe how much blue crud will come out of your barrel. You only have to use this cleaner once in a while. When i am done cleaning i leave a thin coat of Ballistol Sportsmens Oil in the bore i don't know whats in this stuff but after using it my rifles are much easer to clean.

Mike
 
on mine the windage is off,what do you recommend for adjusting it,just a brass punch?Is there a sight tool I can get?There is a tool called a LT-2 but it's hard to find,any other types?
 
Spray the sight with penetrating oil let it soak. The next day put the barrel in a vice use a rag or some blocks of wood t protect the barrel. Tap the sight with a punch and hammer. Once you get the sight to move it will be easy to move at the range with a punch and hammer on a block wood.

Mike
 
stan in sc makes the LT-2 adjusters. Send him a message and I am sure he can help you out.
 
Summary

I have been looking at the posts on the Mosin N variety of rifles. Can someone post a summary of models available, their caliber, pertinent fact and possibly origin for each model? I'm think of looking for one but getting confused (nothing unusual for me). When purchasing them are they all used and repacked in cosmoline? What are the key factors to look for.

Thanks
 
Cleaning

Mike 56,
Nice links on cleaning, now I need a read on when to stop cleaning.

I have 2 MN's a '43 Izhvesk 91/30 and a M44 made the next year. The 91/30 I purchased had the ATI rail and bolt conversion and its the one with the nice scope that I am really concentrating on to get the best accuracy.

A clean barrel may or may not be a factor in maintaining 1 MOA, I'll leave that controversy to the Guru's. I just know that I'm nearing the end of my rope in trying to get a shiney bare metal looking bore. Maybe its not possible. I have been using J&B compound (there's a coarse-dark grey and a fine ruby red).
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In the pic above you can clearly see the lands, there is also dust in the barrel. My question is, should or can I ever succeed in getting the lands to be shiney bright? I mean shiney as in the color of a nickle.

KKKKFL
 
Better picture

This is what my bore looks like right after cleaning. If you look closely, you can see where there are shiney patches starting to appear.

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Taking a cleaning rod with a patch jag on one end and locking the rod in the jaws of a quarter inch drill then spinning and going in and out still brings out a patch that is black, so I don't think I'm done yet...

But, I would like a professional opinion.
KKKKFL
 

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Franco2shoot, Your Mosin shoots MOA with surplus ammo i would stop scrubbing. You may never get that clean white patch or shiney brite bore. But who cares you have a great shooting 91/30. At one time someone shot corrosive ammo and did not clean the rifle properly. This is common with milsurp rifles. I would make sure that most of the copper has been removed. Try some Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner this stuff is easy to use and works real good or better yet build an electric bore cleaner http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp and http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=44302&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30 you will be surprised to see how much muck comes out of what you thought was a clean bore.

Mike
 
Haven't had a carbine yet that would do MOA, and they were not designed for that anyway. I have one or two 91/30s that will come close, and a M39 that will come close too, but again, they were not designed to be MOA rifles. Minute of pie plate mostly.
 
Electrolyc cleaning

Thanks Mike 56,

I just have to try the electrolyc cleaning approach. Its the tinkerer in me. Also, I like the fact that it is a totally non-abrasive method.

I sure would like to see before and after pictures to make a better judgment of the progress that was made. Bore pictures are difficult because the field of focus is hard to achieve on a long barreled rifle like a 91/30.

One final question. Does a brand new barrel shoot more accurately that one that has some deposits on the walls. Maybe the shiney sides are just aesthetics

KKKKFL
 
Franco2shoot, I am sure a new barrel would shoot better on the hand i have sen some Mosins with sewer pipe bore that were very good shooters. If you are looking to squeese a little a little more accuracy out of your rifle here are a few things you can try. start by making sure your cross bolt is tight. Remove your two receiver screws and hand guard and try to slide your receiver back and fourth in the stock if there is any movement place shims behind the recoil lug i use medal strapping and soda cans. free float the barrel. Make sure your receiver screw are not bottoming out if so shorten them. Try shooting your rifle with out the hand guard if accuracy improves sand the under side of the hand guard before putting it back on. Remove your trigger put some medal polish on some cotton string and polish the two trigger pin holes polish the trigger pin with some fine emery cloth. Polish both the sear and cocking piece contact points coat all these areas with STP Oil treatment before replacing the sear place a washer between the sear and the receiver. The biggest thing you can do to improve accuracy is to reload your own ammo.

Mike
 
Thank god i found a site that has a good 91/30 write up!! I've been to other bords but they just flamed me. i was just reading and i was excited to talk to some experts on my mossin. i just signed up and this is my first post so hello. i just perchased a 91/30 from j&g so im still wating to get it just getting some info so i know what yo expect. this is my first rifle and my first gun, when i got it i perchased some ammo with them it was cheap but it was the 7.62x54R Silver Bear Soft Point 203gr now im new to all this gun stuff but i have been reading and all i see is 180gr brass ammo and lower grain, is this ammo bad for my mossin? well im gladly to join your mossin club if thats cool with you guys!!! also if any buddy could give me a site that has a good recoil pad that would be great!!! also if i could get a website that as a good recoil pad that would be sweet!!!
 
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The Silver Bear stuff isn't bad for your rifle but it may or may not shoot accurately. If it's inaccurate then don't get discouraged. The bores on Mosins vary in diameter and if you've got a .314 or .315 bore and your ammo is .308 then it's not going to shoot real well. I had some "Brown Bear" that could barely stay on the berm and when I mic'd the bullets they were .306. FWIW.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
Trial and error

dmftoy1 brings up an interesting point in ammo selection. Brown Bear is very accurate in my 91/30 while he can barely hit the berm. I have experimented with several different 7.62x54r brands, Privi Partizan, Brown bear, Winchester, Steel cased war surplus, Norma, Hungarian Heavy ball, to name a few. The range I go to wants you to purchase your ammo in the shop, so its whatever they have on the shelf. They also have loose 20 round packs that can come from anywhere. The one tip I can pass along is to spend 60-70 bucks for a tin of 440 rounds at one of your local gun shows. This will give you a bulk pack of fairly consistent ammo, (as consistent as the Warsaw Pact could, which is far from the consistency you would get loading your own.)
From there it comes down to trial and error and each one may be different. For instance Mike 56 recommends free floating the barrel. On mine the pattern when free floated was about 2 inches. Last week, I thinly sliced a cork lengthwise. It was just a normal wine bottle cork, and took about 10 tries to get 2 nice, very thin slices. These were put around the barrel up by the first ring and the results were nothing short of phenomenal. Three shots all within the size of a quarter with a cold barrel. The pattern held as the barrel got hot, but did spread out a little. (this was using the Hungarian Heavy ball @ 100 yards.).

Bottom line is you will not find a cheaper/better shooting High power rifle IMHO.

KKKKFL
 
Question:

Did the Russians sight in the M91/30 without the bayonet?

I see that there is 2 marks on the front sight itself and FSB. one of the marks on the sight is flush with one on the FSB but the other 2 marks are not... It is currently only acurate with the bayo mounted.

Would adjusting the front sight to make the other 2 marks flush make it 'sighted' for use w/o the pig sticker?
 
Case by Case

For the past month I have experimented with my 91/30 to see the difference w versus w/o the bayonet. So far the results would seem to indicate that the Bayonet on tends to produce a wider pattern than shooting w/o and for mine, the rifle produces a tighter pattern with the barrel firmly encased and shimmed with cork versus floating. And as they say in the Ad's "Your performance may vary."
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As to the question you ask about what the Soviets did, I haven't a clue. You will have to do your own tests to come to any conclusion. Start with a 75 yard target, remove the bolt and look down it, check and align the front sight as needed. Or, you could go high tech like I did. I purchased one of those laser bore sighters that slip in the chamber. Unfortunately, I could not find one in 7.62x54r and had to settle for one in .308 costing about 30 bucks. Then I took a spent 7.62 brass case, cut it so that the laser would fit inside. Most importantly, I cut two small tabs up where the case necks in and bent these tabs over. Don't worry, the laser is pencil thin and these tabs don't get in the way. What they do allow is for you to push the assembly out.

To use you turn on the 308 laser stick it in the 7.62 case and manually push into the chamber softly. I had to wiggle the laser til I had a dot coming down the center of the barrel. This is checked by placing cello tape over the muzzle.

One last tip, get some of that reflective tape and stick it to something 100 yards away. I have an old dead tree out back that I use. This still isn't perfect, but it does get you very close. I used the above technique to zero in my scope and was only off by 6 clicks on the verticle plane.

While mine is more accurate w/o the bayonet, I actually prefer to shoot it with.
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Let us know what your results are.

KKKKFL
 
Thanks, Franco.

I'll probably start to play with the front sight at 50, then work up to 100 yds.

I dont mind the bayonet, its just kinda makes the rifle front-heavy and if I could find myself on a hunting venture before shipping to Basic, hauling it in the bush could cause it to snag on branches and whatnot, so its something I could afford to leave at home.

I'm quite curious about the 2 marks I described... The pictures posted above show the 2 marks on the adjustable part of the sight, but not on the base which is welded into the barrel, which mine has.

Left side dots are lined up and flush, right side is not. I see more than one accuracy proof mark on the reciever... it might be set up to be quickly adjusted for use without the bayonet maybe?
 
My 91/30 paterns like 00 buck at 100 without the bayo but have gotten 2 to 4 moa with it attached. It would be nice if there was a muzzle attachment like a brake that would act like the bayo to improve barrel harnomics. All without permently altering the rifle. I thought abour buying another bayo and cuting off the stike part but I don't want to screw up a good one. I think I should call some distributors and see if they have a rusted up no good bayo that they could sell me for cheap.
 
For disturbed1 are the marks like the ones in post 283? My eyes aren't all that good, so I cannot tell you how mine performed using the iron sights.

For vzenmn:
Is your barrel free floating? Also, I found the tang screw on mine (actually both the tang and front screw) loosened. When this happened the pattern went Kaa Kaa. I put lock-tite on both and still check to make certain they are tight. Finally, I tried wrapping the barrel up by the front band with an oil soaked patch. The pattern would start @ 2 MOA but once the barrel got hot the pattern improved. That's when I switched to cork. Two thin slices placed, one on top, one underneath and the pattern was back @ 1 MOA and it stayed there until the barrel was really hot. Even then the spread was very tight, under 2MOA, but that's just my experience. Now I need to go re-test with the bayonet in place to see if the cork continues to hold. Who knows, it might even be better.

KKKKFL
 
Do you free float it all the way to were the reciever meets the barrel or do you leave a bit of wood on the rear part of the barrel?
 
If your Mosin is inconsistent definately try tightening the tang screw and the other at the front of the magazine. As part of a major cleaning job I did last night I tore the whole thing down for the first time. As soon as I touched the scews to remove the mag and barreled action I could tell they were loose so I made sure they were reasonably tight on reassembly and took the rifle out today. It completely eliminated all fliers and Brown Bear 185gr fmj that was formerly not so great for me suddenly grouped much more tightly. I also found a few steel shims which I didn't expect on a Russian rifle but had heard of on the Finns.
 
Now I'm in a big heap of s***. I don't know how I did it but I manage to bang my new M44 into something hard in the garage when I was finished cleaning the 62 years of gunk off of it and it know has a few dings on the crown.:cuss::cuss::cuss::banghead::banghead::banghead::cuss::cuss::cuss:

I'm hoping it isn't as bad as it looks. I might be off to Home Depot for a brass slotted screw and rubbing compound after Saterdays range visit.

The best looking bore I have seen of a Mosin and I have to go and screw it up.:banghead:
 
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