Mosin Problems

[tmackay3302]

My mosin gets about 8 inch groups at 50 yards w/ milsurp ammo. how much would factory ammo improve my groups? Or should I just pawn it off on some poor unexpecting guy? It's a factory refurbished i don't remember what date (I'll check in a couple of minutes) with the step-down crown. the rifling is strong, but the bore is dark. is there anything I can do?

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Did you shoot it with the bayonet out? I hear for some rifles that can effect accuracy. Beyond that, I don't think there's much you can do. Stalin was not expecting miracles.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Clean it very well. You didn't state how you were shooting it (flinching, offhand, benchrest, etc) so I can't help you with what I don't know. Try several different kinds of milsurp ammo and factory. I know my M44 loves Bulgarian Heavy Ball, but my 91/30 shoots best with Checzk silver tip light ball.

 

[Ed Ames]

What I'd do:

Get another.

Maybe keep this one for parts, maybe sell it as what it is (include a target), maybe just pack it away somewhere safe if you have the room.

On second thought, maybe I'm not the best role model.

 

[Cosmoline]

What kind of Mosin is it? An M44? Are you shooting from the bench?

I'd check the tightness of the receiver screws. 8" at 50 yards is way out of whack. Putting the bayonet out if it's an M44 may help a little, but if your screws are tight and the sights are on there OK there's a major problem somewhere. Most likely the counterbore was not done properly and you've got bullets flying out at odd angles.

Stalin was not expecting miracles.

True, but I've never seen a Mosin shoot *that* poorly, even a wartime Soviet one. It's usually either loose screws or a shooter who doesn't know how to aim with a post & globe. I'm assuming it's not the second situation here. So if the rifle is put together properly that leaves a major problem with the rifling. Even then, a cruddy old wartime USSR mosin should at lease be able to group 3" at fifty yards.

 

[jwxspoon]

That's strange, my mosins are far more accurate than that. My first inclination would be that the recoil is somehow moving your sights slightly.

jw

 

[Acheron]

+1 on what Cosmoline said.

Check the receiver screws and the sights. Otherwise I don't know what's up.

 

[tmackay3302]

Sorry, I've got a 91/30--1937 stamped. Thanks, I'll check the screws. I considered it being my fault, but I really don't think it is. I was shooting from a prone position. I was getting consistant 8 inch groups though!

 

[Cosmoline]

A prewar 91/30 should absolutely shoot much better than that. I've had some from that vintage that are solid 2MOA. It isn't hacked is it?

 

[tmackay3302]

Nope, not hacked.

 

[Vaarok]

Tighten your action screws, fix the bayonet, and try several types of ammunition. If none of those fix it, you might need to do something like shim the barrel away from the stock or recrown, but I doubt it's something that technical.

Eight inch groups sure sounds like loose screws and or ammo it doesn't like.

 

[Acheron]

Where was the surplus ammo made? That may have something to do with it. Some surplus has been giving lots of people trouble lately. I think it was made in Albania, probably a bad batch.

 

[jpwilly]

Check Everything, the front sight on my 91/30 could have fallen off if it wasn't for the cosmoline holding it in. If the rifle checks out then Hold still, front sight, trigger then the BANG should be a surprise! My M38 with a sewer pipe for a barrel & counter bored shoots nearly as good as my 1946 M44 that looks like it was never fired. 4"-5" 5 shot groups at 100yrds bench rest and sandbags - I'm amaized at that kind of accuracy out of a rifle that needs a new bbl!

 

[goon]

Forgive me if this is too obvious, but are you getting proper ignition?
Hangfires will give you accuracy problems and they're not too uncommon with some Mosin ammo.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Adding/removing a bayonet should only affect the point of impact, not the accuracy of the rifle.

8 inch groups at 50 yards? Either you are a really really bad shot or your rifle has some serious barrel or ammunition problems. What is the condition of your bore?

 

[Deer Hunter]

So what kind of Ammunition? How's your bore?

 

[tube_ee]

Steps to take:

1. Make sure action screws are tight. If they're not, everything moves with every shot.

2. Clean the bejeezus out of it. My M44 was so dirty that I still get more definition in the rifling every time I clean it. Even so, it was a 3 MOA gun with Czech Silvertip, over iron sights, with my eyes.

3. Shoot good ammo. The cheap surplus stuff is so inconsistent as to be noticeable to the shoulder. Bang...bang...bang...bang...BANG!!!

I haven't shot the Winchester or Hot Shot (re-labelled Prvi) for groups yet, but a back to back comparison shooting at a steel plate at around 200 yards showed it much easier to get the hits with the Winchester than with surplus. This while sitting on a big rock, not off a bench. My first batch of handloads grouped better than the surplus stuff, when I could figure out where it was landing (it by no means shot to the sights).

4. Put a slip-on recoil pad on it. The Butler Creek small pad fits the Mosin stock pretty well, and both tames the recoil and adds some much-needed length-of-pull. They're about 15 bucks at your LGS.

5. Shoot it a lot. This is where cheap surplus ammo really has it's place. Learning the rifle make a big difference in group size, and a Mosin is about as different a rifle as most of us are likely to shoot. When I first got my K31, I actually shot better groups with my M44. Why? Because I knew the rifle. Now, of course, the Swiss rifle shoots rings around the Mosin, as it should.

6. Buy a bunch of cheap ammo (I like the Czech silver-tip, although Hungarian yellow-tip has a pretty impressive flash), go out to someplace on BLM land where you can shoot at whatever you see, and start blasting rocks, Coke cans, tree stumps, whatever. Do not care about groups, MOA, measurements, whatever. Pick a target, verify that it's safe, shoot at it, look for the dust cloud, adjust sight picture, repeat until out of ammo.

--Shannon

 

[mp510]

I think it was made in Albania, probably a bad batch.

Were you shooting steel cased Albanian ammo? If so, that stuff is definetely crap- I had some. It was overcharged slightly, and produced horrible groups.

 

[lencac]

Remember that Mosins that are in that condition still make wonderful fireplace pokers

 

[Pigspitter]

old ruskie parable "when mosin break, which be impossible for good soviet weapon to break, fix bayonet and charge capitalist"

 

[Slugless]

Remember that Mosins that are in that condition still make wonderful fireplace pokers

Dude, you made me smile. (YMMS?) My war veteran is hanging from the ceiling with a spent casing "ejecting" from it. With monofilament line it looks suspended in mid-air.

 

[Ida Noski]

First off, all Albanian ammo that I have seen is brass cased. Not the highest quality ammo mind you, but brass cased nonetheless.
Wasn't impressed with my M38 until I cranked down the action screws. World of difference and as has already been mentioned, try some different types of ammo. Some, especially the carbines, prefer the heavy ball over the light ball. May or may not be the case for your 91/30. Come to think of it my 91/30 may prefer the heavy ball as well.
One last thought, if you are sensitive to recoil, put a slip on pad on the butt. (of the rifle) It'll take the edge off and remove the flinch factor. 7.62x54R is a fairly stout round and if one is not used to it, it can induce flinching. Not saying you are, just looking at all angles.
Let us know how it goes!

 

[mp510]

First off, all Albanian ammo that I have seen is brass cased. Not the highest quality ammo mind you, but brass cased nonetheless.

There is a very small quantity of Albanian produced steel case ammo that was made, some of it was imported alongside the common Albanian brass cased ammo. I had some of the ammo, that was purchased on the pretense that it was brass cased Albanian. The tins had "Made in Russia" stickers put on at the importer. The headstamps, and original factory papers, tin and crate marking were all Albanian, and indicated Albanian manufacture.

Ted owner of 7.62x54r.net bought the remainder of my ammo for testing and collection, and experienced the same problems as I. He concurred that the ammo was Albanian.

 

[Ida Noski]

mp510,

I stand corrected. I was not aware of that and thank you for that info
I've actually had decent succes with the brass Albanian that I've had. Not as good as the Bulgarian heavy ball though.

Thanks,

 

[FieroCDSP]

my M44 that I managed to mess up the crown on shot better than that at 50. I loaded up some ammo with Varget and fired my older (newer to me) 91/30 and was able to make COM shots on an IDPA target at 200 yards. Not grouped well, but I hit it.
Sounds like bad ammo.