BSA1
member
The bayonet on the MN is longer than the German Mausers and it didn't freeze up. ;-)
Mosin vs Mauser Which would you choose?
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fpgt72 said:
Up to the beginning of the Winter War, it seems that the Finns were doing their absolute best to remain independent and neutral. The reason Russia invaded Finland was because the USSR was concerned that Germany would just decide to make Finland un-neutral. I think the Finns used Mosins because they already had a bunch of them and they worked well enough.
Though the Finnish Mosins are excellent rifles, I think it was their tactics that made them effective. They found ways to use the terrain and their superior adaptations to their climate to their advantage. They adopted weapons like the Suomi and the Lahti LMG to bring a lot of firepower to bear on pockets of invaders that they'd isolated and take them out. In addition, the Russians severely underestimated the Finns right at a time when the Red Army was reeling from purges of senior NCO's and officers. Those factors contributed a lot more to the high price the USSR paid in Finland than Finland's excellent rifles.
Mistwolf said:
To the contrary. If your bayonet is frozen, that's a great reason to warm it over the fire by roasting marshmallows. And the MN bayonet is perfect for that.
Ash
Member
The Finns kept, and used, the Mosin for decades after WWII. Were the Mosin not a solid action, they would not have manufactured Mosins in the 1960's and early 1970's for officer training, nor as a basis for several competition rifles (in addition, the Mosin won more world shooting competitions than the K98k did) or as two dedicated sniper rifles that saw use into this century.
TheHappyGunner
Member
I'll also call BS on the Mauser action freezing up in the winter. Soldiers urinating on their guns in order to turn the bolt? The weather would have to be FAR colder for a bolt to freeze up THAT bad. And even then, I would think the Mauser bolt would perform better than the Mosin bolt in the extreme cold. The longer, bent bolt handle on the K98k provides much more available leverage than the short, straight Mosin bolt handle.
There are much better ways in the field to warm your action. If you have time to take a piss, you have time to find/start a fire to rest your gun beside. The whole thing sounds like hogwash imagined-up by Mosin Nagant fanboys, and until someone can provide a scholarly article to cite this "urination" technique, I will continue to believe it as hogwash.
The Russians did NOT gain the victory because of the Mosin Nagant being "superior" to the Germans's Mausers. Just because it was on the winning side in WWII does not by any means make it a superior weapon. The fact that the Russians were issued Mosins has very little to do with their victory on the Eastern front in WWII. If you believe the Mosin is better than the Mauser because the Russians beat back the Germans with it, then you must also believe that if the weapons switched sides, then the war would have resulted in a German victory.
the result of that front goes much deeper than front line infantry weapons.
The cold hard truth is this: the Mauser action has withstood the test of time, where the Mosin Nagant has not. As stated previously, the Mauser action can be found copied by MANY modern manufacturers to this day, where the Mosin has not proven itself as a suitable sporting/military weapon as the Mauser has.
I own more Mosin Nagants than I do Mausers, but please; give me a Mauser over a Mosin any day of the week.
There are much better ways in the field to warm your action. If you have time to take a piss, you have time to find/start a fire to rest your gun beside. The whole thing sounds like hogwash imagined-up by Mosin Nagant fanboys, and until someone can provide a scholarly article to cite this "urination" technique, I will continue to believe it as hogwash.
The Russians did NOT gain the victory because of the Mosin Nagant being "superior" to the Germans's Mausers. Just because it was on the winning side in WWII does not by any means make it a superior weapon. The fact that the Russians were issued Mosins has very little to do with their victory on the Eastern front in WWII. If you believe the Mosin is better than the Mauser because the Russians beat back the Germans with it, then you must also believe that if the weapons switched sides, then the war would have resulted in a German victory.
the result of that front goes much deeper than front line infantry weapons.The cold hard truth is this: the Mauser action has withstood the test of time, where the Mosin Nagant has not. As stated previously, the Mauser action can be found copied by MANY modern manufacturers to this day, where the Mosin has not proven itself as a suitable sporting/military weapon as the Mauser has.
I own more Mosin Nagants than I do Mausers, but please; give me a Mauser over a Mosin any day of the week.
Numeric
Member
I prefer my Mausers because they are so much easier to load, either singly or with chargers, and the longer bolt handle is in a much better position to operate the bolt. The Mauser safety is leagues ahead of the Mosin's.
Ash
Member
Most commercial bolt action rifles these days have very few Mauser features. Most are push-feed with plunger-style ejectors and some kind of sliding safety. Indeed, they are as much Carcano or Mosin as they are Mauser.
No one's doubting that the MN is a decent rifle as is and even better after some Finnish armorers had some private time with them. They've been seeing use in harsh places since 1891 and there are still a lot of them ticking now. If I wound up in a rough place with nothing but a Mosin, I'd trust it to go off and get lead on target.
But let's be honest here guys... they're not going to help your receding hairline and the Mauser is more copied. Even by us, first as the 1903 Springfield and later by countless sporting arms manufacturers. Even the refinements to the Mauser are usually not to improve it, but only to make it cheaper to manufacture.
To answer the OP's question, which I missed entirely before, if I were on the Eastern Front I don't think I'd choose either the Mosin or the Mauser. No matter which side I was fighting for, I'd either be fighting for Hitler or Stalin. No thanks.
But let's be honest here guys... they're not going to help your receding hairline and the Mauser is more copied. Even by us, first as the 1903 Springfield and later by countless sporting arms manufacturers. Even the refinements to the Mauser are usually not to improve it, but only to make it cheaper to manufacture.
To answer the OP's question, which I missed entirely before, if I were on the Eastern Front I don't think I'd choose either the Mosin or the Mauser. No matter which side I was fighting for, I'd either be fighting for Hitler or Stalin. No thanks.
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JHansenAK47
Member
What is your point? That it would freeze.
The obvious answer would be to use lube rated for a lower temperature or not use any.
An easy solution would be to clean with widely available diesel and not use lube.
Fresh pee is body temperature and would be warm enough to thaw out things. More of a necessity to fix an immediate problem than an ideal solution. Urine will itself freeze and cause other unpleasantness.
Oh for the love, the correct answer is I'd use what I was issued or picked up if need be. Let's call this round of historical what if finished.
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