Mosins and “gracefully aging” THR members

[caribou]

Just to throw this out there;
Custers men fought with Springfield 45/70's using Copper case shells. These stuck in dirty or hot chambers, whichever came first.
In 1877, there was a total recall on all US issued Copper case 45/70 and 50/70 ammo, and replaced by Brass cased ammo, which alleviated the problem for about 40 rounds or so, when the fouling of black powder in the chamber became a factor again.
The copper case ammo was relegated to training or dismantled and reloaded.

I actually have a few copper cases I found along our Arctic coast, so I think they sold some off as surplus, or a maker dumped a bunch in the fur trade, back in those days.

 

[Megawatt maker]

Izhevsk's arsenal PU scoped 91/30's were numbered with the scopes number along the woodline on the left side of the barrel shank, with both the scope and rifles serial numbers on the scope mount.

Tula made PU scoped 91/30's with a Ch on the barrel shank. No scope numbers were stamped on the gun by Tula.

I know a few things after 34 years of useing a Mosin, often daily.
If you Mosin is "clunky' or stiff to work, gets sticky bolt, it is dirty, or was shot with corrosive ammo previously and not cleaned properly then.
That usually happens state side. Today, dealing with corrosively primed ammo by folks that have had noncorrosive priming for the last 70 years, often isnt what it should be.

Rearsenal weapons had to pass gauging and inspections.

A clean Mosin works just fine, smoothly and flawlessly.

Just an aside, but you cannot fire a Nambu Papa, T14 or Baby pistol by bumping the sear.
Your thinking of the Type 94 pistol, which, like the Berretta 92 has the sear exposed along the side, but it takes serious effort to set it off, as its flush and moves back and not in.

Mine is a Izhevsk. 1944 rifle, with a 1940 progress scope. Correct mount, (large milling machine circles on the inside), with the rifle serial number on the outside in sloppy electropensil, and the scope serial on the inside, also sloppy electropensil, which is correct near as I can tell, because one of the tells of a fake is NEAT electropensil writing. The only thing that can be debatable...the scope number is not on the receiver itself, but its most defiantly a sniper 91/30 because its nicely machined, while the non snipers were rougher. Its possible the number was removed..in the right light, it looks like a number could have been machined off, but it very very hard to see. It would make sense...because the scope itself has the square with the "X", which means its been refurbished by the Soviets factory, being a very early PU...plus, nobody fakes those marks, at least none have been found faked like that. Overall, all the evidence points to being the genuine article.

I'll post lots of pictures to get your opinion on it...I love this stuff! It could be a post war rebuild....but I doubt that also...but no way is it a fake.

 

[Remington1911]

If you think describing the Mosin Nagant as a "POS" and "Not as good as" as back pedaling, then I'm back pedaling.

Let me back pedal again- The Mosin Nagant is a POS that isn't as good as such rifles as the Springfield, MLE, SMLE or Mauser 91/93/96/98

So now that you reply to me, why are you here? Are you still looking for some shallow validation on your views in a thread talking about something you see as a POS?

Such weak people come into threads to do nothing but tear down what others enjoy, shallow.

 

[ojh]

Never had the desire to buy one of these clunky POS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä#Achievements_as_a_sniper
I'd say a job pretty well done with a clunky POS.

 

[caribou]

Mine is a Izhevsk. 1944 rifle, with a 1940 progress scope. Correct mount, (large milling machine circles on the inside), with the rifle serial number on the outside in sloppy electropensil, and the scope serial on the inside, also sloppy electropensil, which is correct near as I can tell, because one of the tells of a fake is NEAT electropensil writing. The only thing that can be debatable...the scope number is not on the receiver itself, but its most defiantly a sniper 91/30 because its nicely machined, while the non snipers were rougher. Its possible the number was removed..in the right light, it looks like a number could have been machined off, but it very very hard to see. It would make sense...because the scope itself has the square with the "X", which means its been refurbished by the Soviets factory, being a very early PU...plus, nobody fakes those marks, at least none have been found faked like that. Overall, all the evidence points to being the genuine article.

I'll post lots of pictures to get your opinion on it...I love this stuff! It could be a post war rebuild....but I doubt that also...but no way is it a fake.

If you do post pictures, take some of the barrel shank, the mounts markings, the scopes markings, and the scopes rings screw heads.
Theres telling features for fakes, genuine and re-snipered PU91/30's
The resnipered ones were decommissioned during refurb by the Soviets as a sniper, and stateside resnipered by remounting the scope and mount.
Different batches came through different importers, and any Receiver markings would be interesting, but neither the guns serial numbers or the scopes were placed on the receiver, only the barrel.
The rifles numbers placed on the receiver were done by the importer, because that where the ATF says there has to be and most Mosins had that applied state side by the importer.

Thats the best example, ojh.
Simo Hayha, the worlds highest scoring sniper used a Mosin.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Yep.
Simo used an un-scoped Finn Model 28/30 and a Suomi KP/-31 smg to run up his kill count.

The Soviet's usual response to a strike by the "White Death" was massed artillery - nobody wanted to try to track him down through the forests of Finland... .
Simo inspired me to collect my Finn Mosins,

 

[Megawatt maker]

If you do post pictures, take some of the barrel shank, the mounts markings, the scopes markings, and the scopes rings screw heads.
Theres telling features for fakes, genuine and re-snipered PU91/30's
The resnipered ones were decommissioned during refurb by the Soviets as a sniper, and stateside resnipered by remounting the scope and mount.
Different batches came through different importers, and any Receiver markings would be interesting, but neither the guns serial numbers or the scopes were placed on the receiver, only the barrel.
The rifles numbers placed on the receiver were done by the importer, because that where the ATF says there has to be and most Mosins had that applied state side by the importer.

Thats the best example, ojh.
Simo Hayha, the worlds highest scoring sniper used a Mosin.

 

[Megawatt maker]

 

[caribou]

View attachment 1067833 View attachment 1067832

Nice rifle!
The scope, mount and rifle are 'real', for sure.
Three things stick out ; one is a lack of the scopes number stamped into the barrel shank, just ahead of the receivers left side. It looks like the previous one has been scrubbed.
Both the scope and the rifles numbers are usually on the outside face of the scope mount.
The factory refurrbs had the scopes number added to the barrel, as did factory fresh ones.
There are both flat and rounded head screws in the scopes mount.
My feeling is a re-sniper, but Im an enthusiast, not an expert.
Gunboards Collectors forum would be the best place to get a correct and honest evaluation.
https://www.gunboards.com/forums/the-collectors-forum-mosin-nagant-hq.3/

 

[Megawatt maker]

Nice rifle!
The scope, mount and rifle are 'real', for sure.
Three things stick out ; one is a lack of the scopes number stamped into the barrel shank, just ahead of the receivers left side. It looks like the previous one has been scrubbed.
Both the scope and the rifles numbers are usually on the outside face of the scope mount.
The factory refurrbs had the scopes number added to the barrel, as did factory fresh ones.
There are both flat and rounded head screws in the scopes mount.
My feeling is a re-sniper, but Im an enthusiast, not an expert.
Gunboards Collectors forum would be the best place to get a correct and honest evaluation.
https://www.gunboards.com/forums/the-collectors-forum-mosin-nagant-hq.3/

I do agree, not having the scope numbered stamped on the shank is normally a red flag, however, while its very hard to see in a photo, there was once a number there, but it was ground off and it was done very neatly. Seeing how everything else is dang near 100% correct...ie stock cuts, bolt handle clearly bent and not cut and rewelded like the knockoffs, the receiver is machined to a fine finish, unlike the infantry issue 91s, and it being a 1944, which if one researches, they were being rushed out at that point, I feel its possible it just went out as is now...but alas...I've been wrong before...about a lot of things...lol.
If anything, at worse, it went in for a post war tune up, got a rebuilt scope (the 1940 with refurbish stamp) and maybe the Ivan working on it drank too much Vodka the night before and forgot to stamp the new scope number on the shank...lol...who knows...lol
Thank you for the link. I'll join that board and posts some pictures and questions there...get some more input.

 

[caribou]

There were quite a few PU91/30's that came into the country simply without scopes and mounts. A scope and mount later, and we have a resniper. Im thinking this could have happened in another country or here.

Others were returned to infantry rifles at the refurbishment factory. They would get new bolt bodys with straight handles and a renumber with different font than originals, screw holes filled and sniper marks removed. Then reblued or black paint touch ups.
Infantry grade rifles are marked as such with various small marks
Alot of effort would go into resnipering such.

 

[caribou]

A 1940 Progress scope could be among the earliest of the PU series or the end of the SVT-40 scope series.
https://www.m9130.info/pu-snipers

 

[Catpop]

Caribou
thanks for interesting article links

 

[d2wing]

Speaking of using the Mosin Nagant in combat...lolView attachment 1067571
The Ruskies are scraping bottom of the barrel big time if they have to call this old war bird back in action.

I had a dream that I was sent to the Ukraine to fight and the most suitable weapon I could find meaning some long range capability was an MN. Anyway as a soldier, you fight with what you have. This is a change form my recurring nightmares of being sent back to Vietnam.

 

[Spclk]

Got a couple

 

[caribou]

Sweet!!!

Im interested in the 4th from the left, bottom row, light green sling left of and next to #5's black sling.

Folding bayonet on 91/30? Ive come across scanty info on that variation.
I wish I were at home I would consult Yuschanko's book myself

 

[hdbiker]

I got my Mosin 44 at a yard sale, with attached bayonet , nice import stamped 1946, bright bore, sharp rifling, 75.00 bucks

 

[wiscoaster]

So far I've picked up eight Mosins for my firearms archives, most of which are Finn marked.
These include .... an M-27 ....

(my snip & emphasis)

@theotherwaldo - I'm looking at an M27 (1933 Tikka) - it's got the standard nose cap without the "popsicle stick" reinforcements. There was some discussion in one YouTube video about the handguards on these being subject to stress cracking due to flexing of the popsicle-stick-less nosecap. I was wondering whether yours is with or without and whether you think that's a valid concern or not. Thanks...

 

[caribou]

I use and preferr an M-39.
My initiation to Mosins was a straight up Tula 1914 M-91 and Chinese ammo. It was a long and very accurate rifle a friend of mine had, and let me shoot.
I looked it up at the library and found storys of Simo Hayha.
Later I saw,I identified and bought and M-28/30 at a pawn shop in Kalispell Montana, about 1988. The rifle and a can of Chinese copper washed 7.62x54R and I was hooked.
I sold it to my biathlon coach and bought another and a 6 cases of Chinese '54R and the mosinitus set in.

The M27 Popsicle re-enforcement's were to keep the front of the stock from cracking when the bayonet was used, stabbing and torquing.

The Japanese Type 99 also has this feature.
The Finns and the Russians used a lot of Japanese Type 38's.
When I look at a 91 Mosin and a Japanese Type 38 or 99 I can see the Finns ideas of the two combined into an M-39.

 

[wiscoaster]

....The M27 Popsicle re-enforcement's were to keep the front of the stock from cracking when the bayonet was used, stabbing and torquing....

Thanks for the explanation ... not something I need to worry about. Unfortunately, someone else outbid me for the rifle. So I'll be going for the next item on my list: a Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk I.

 

[Bob Meyer]

I have two, each one cost me $129 back in 2010 and 2011. One is a 91/30 sniper rifle with a PU scope, the other is a M44. With ammo it likes the sniper rifle will shoot 1" groups off sandbags at 100 yards. I've never shot the other one. Someday when I'm bored I'll take it out and give it a try. I have an unopened battle can of about 450 rounds of surplus ammo I picked up somewhere.

 

[toivo]

I have two Finn M39s: a 1941 and a 1970. IIRC, each one was around $250. This would have been around 2007.