Mosins and “gracefully aging” THR members

[zaitcev]

Finns? Meh. What I would like to get is a real Bannerman in 30-06. They are a real auction material, I saw some on Rock Island. But unfortunately, finding one in a good condition is quite difficult.

 

[Remington1911]

Though x54 is a lot closer to .308 than the 8mm the Germans used in the Mausers. I find the former to be a much better round for all around use than the latter. The 8mm has its upsides, but also enough downsides that 8mm never became popular the way the various 30's did, even in Europe and the country that invented it. For the, that's a point for the mosin again. My very last reason I like it, and again not swoon, is that the loose tolerances and simple construction make it easier for me to operate with thick winter gloves on in sub zero temps, than just about any other bolt gun out there.

I think the outcome of the 1940's dust up had a great deal to do with how the 8mm faired. I know the former Yougoslavia was a heavy user of the 8mm....why it was laying around. I just learned last week they....well I think croatia are still using 1940's German steam trains to this day, two are running and they have several for parts. Used to haul coal for an electric plant....every day. I think 54R is still with us because what the russians did after WWII. It has nothing to do with the cartridge, it has a great many drawbacks as well....rim anyone.

If you don't like the gun, fine, cool with me. I don't like plastic guns, I am not a fan of the Barbie doll for grown men, otherwise known as the AR platform.

What I don't need to do is come onto a thread specifically talking about something I dislike and go hunting for validation from a bunch of internet keyboard commandos. That is the sign of a very little person. Then coming back again and again to do nothing but belittle the topic of the thread.....again how small does a person have to be to do that.....I just don't understand it. You don't like it why are you here.....oh yea, a massive number of people do enjoy it and you need to try to find another guy like yourself that does not....you are hunting for just one little bad thing said so you can add it to your quiver for the next thread on something you don't like.

 

[Remington1911]

More than a bit north of 45, and just never "cottoned onto" an M-N. Back in the 90s, my LGS had some nice ones, some US-built ones, too. Even the odd '44 Carbine or two that I picked up out of the rack more than once.

Mind, I passed on some nice South American Mauser Engineer carbines too--at prices that were only past the c-note by the sales tax. Dumb? Maybe. Maybe not.

I also did not buy anything that runs on 7.5french nor 7.5swiss, either. I know several who did, and more power to them, really.

There are people out there that like the different, they are drawn to the underdog, Lenny small, Oliver in oliver twist, and for the younger people that don't know who any of those people are, think harry potter...underdogs. There are people that are just drawn to that.

Then there are people that just want a small bit of everything, I fall into that area....trust me ADHD and a thing for guns makes for a great deal of different types of guns. I don't have a lot of anything, I have something of everything however.

There are those that just want to see, what the deal is.....is that carcano really that bad....is that type 99 really just jap junk, is that mas 36 really a only dropped once. You are wanting to understand, wanting to learn. You don't want to be stuck in a shell and the only thing you know about them is the stereotypes.

I am happy I have more calibers then I do fingers and toes, I am happy taking a type 99 to a cmp match. I am happy showing up with a scoped mosin or psl at a sniper match. I want to be different, I am not trying to win against anyone past myself. I get great joy handing a G43 (the rifle not the plastic fantastic) to someone and doing some education, did it with some boy scouts that just happened to be at the club one day. You passed along something they would have never known, everyone knows the grand, but most gun crazy kids don't know about the g43, or svt40, let alone being able to hold and touch it. You are giving something to the gun community that a grand or 1903 just can not give, and will never have the ability to give. Handing that kid a Carcano "oswald clone" is something special, it in its own way lets them touch the history. You could just as easy hand them a Remington 700 in 6mm and even if they know who used it it to do bad things it is still just so common, another grain of rice on a plate full of rice.

I babbled long on this, enough for now.

 

[HollowDawg]

Bought several all for $99 or less. Talked a motivated dealer at a gunshow into selling me 2 for $150 total. Best deal I ever scored on them. Couldn't help myself. Every time I watched Enemy At The Gates I'd get the "gotta have a 91-30" urge. Didn't seem to matter that I already had a couple in the safe! Only problem is the FREAKING mule like kick!! Seems to bother me more the older I get. Life hurts....Get over it. Hmmm....maybe a tshirt profundity?

 

[Mosin77]

I think it is interesting that everyone lionizes the Mausers, nobody will dispute that they’re a “better” gun, yet they don’t seem to pop up in conflict zones today with the frequency of the Mosins. And the Mosins can’t be that much worse in practice, because, again, they’ve been serving satisfactorily since the early 1890s. The Mausers are prettier and more elegant, and have a more satisfying bolt feel, but I really doubt there’s much beyond that when comparing the two as fighting weapons.

On the range, today, there’s a strong argument for shooting what you like, and there’s an equally strong argument for shooting what you can find affordable ammo for, because it’s more fun to put 50-100 rounds down range than 10. And most of us are going to be putting closer to 10 than 100 through the pipe when the cost is 1-3 bucks a shot.

 

[kBob]

wow! I seemed to have stepped in a fire snt mound!

Was not expecting so many replies!

I see all this pictures of Mosin and it makes me want to shout, “WOLVERINES!!!”

… even if none were in the picture.

I have seen a couple, with scopes, in the current Ukraine news. Also a Tiger or Bear commercial version of the SVD.

I do wonder how many Ukrainian Farmers had a 91/30 over the mantle when the dance started and used it to express their displeasure.

Lots to like has shown up on this thread, Thanks, guys.

I never knew Sears sold a “Bannerman-ized” Mosin! Neat.

Speaking of Bannerman, those .30-06 actually are dangerous with full house .30-06 so look into it before thinking about one.

The US marked Mosin reminds me of another time the US was Pro Russian and anti Soviet… sort of like say … now. Also makes me inexplainably cold to think of Arch Angel!

As to nay sayers that posted, Fine, though I can not imagine why they bothered.

Yes, squib loads with .32 pistol bullets might be a fun and less punishing way to have more backyard fun and not Desintergrate small game!

Some where in my reading I saw a claim that Russian Partizans made sub sonic ammo for close range use by pulling the bullets dumping a portion of the powder and seating the bullet baxkwards. While this seemed insane to me, eapecially with concerns about minimal loads causing powder explosions, it sort of made sense. They made les noise, more like a subsonic pistol and so might be heard by units supporting their victims at less range, and make them harder ti locate. also the base of the bullet was far more blunt than the point and I suspect the bullet went unstable fast in hitting.

Still I would never try that, but it makes me wonder how well Trail boss or Unique might work for sub 1100 fps loads with 150 grain or so bullets and down.

BTW I find that it seems my M44 shoots better with the bayonet extended. Anyone else?

-kBob

 

[CapnMac]

it seems my M44 shoots better with the bayonet extended.

I have this memory that the UK No.1 MkIII rifle sights are calibrated with bayonet attached--but, I could be remembering that wrong. Also, from memory, the M44 was the first time the Soviets made any arrangement for carrying a bayonet other than affixed, as no scabbard was issued.

 

[illinoisburt]

wow! I seemed to have stepped in a fire ant mound!

That does happen occasionally. Consider it a good thing though because it opens communications people might otherwise be keeping repressed. Most of us shoot for recreation rather than necessity (there are definite exceptions). These old rifles do a wonderful thing in my eye by bringing a large number of people into the hobby, especially younger folks who might otherwise be priced out. Like any novice they might not be very good at first but that's just fine. Let people try it out and if they like it chances are good better tools will be in there future.

 

[entropy]

wow! I seemed to have stepped in a fire snt mound!

Was not expecting so many replies!

I see all this pictures of Mosin and it makes me want to shout, “WOLVERINES!!!”

… even if none were in the picture.

I have seen a couple, with scopes, in the current Ukraine news. Also a Tiger or Bear commercial version of the SVD.

I do wonder how many Ukrainian Farmers had a 91/30 over the mantle when the dance started and used it to express their displeasure.

Lots to like has shown up on this thread, Thanks, guys.

I never knew Sears sold a “Bannerman-ized” Mosin! Neat.

Speaking of Bannerman, those .30-06 actually are dangerous with full house .30-06 so look into it before thinking about one.

The US marked Mosin reminds me of another time the US was Pro Russian and anti Soviet… sort of like say … now. Also makes me inexplainably cold to think of Arch Angel!

As to nay sayers that posted, Fine, though I can not imagine why they bothered.

Yes, squib loads with .32 pistol bullets might be a fun and less punishing way to have more backyard fun and not Desintergrate small game!

Some where in my reading I saw a claim that Russian Partizans made sub sonic ammo for close range use by pulling the bullets dumping a portion of the powder and seating the bullet baxkwards. While this seemed insane to me, eapecially with concerns about minimal loads causing powder explosions, it sort of made sense. They made les noise, more like a subsonic pistol and so might be heard by units supporting their victims at less range, and make them harder ti locate. also the base of the bullet was far more blunt than the point and I suspect the bullet went unstable fast in hitting.

Still I would never try that, but it makes me wonder how well Trail boss or Unique might work for sub 1100 fps loads with 150 grain or so bullets and down.

BTW I find that it seems my M44 shoots better with the bayonet extended. Anyone else?

-kBob

A light load of Unique under .310 123 gr. AK bullets is a nice plinking load.

 

[daniel craig]

I think the outcome of the 1940's dust up had a great deal to do with how the 8mm faired. I know the former Yougoslavia was a heavy user of the 8mm....why it was laying around. I just learned last week they....well I think croatia are still using 1940's German steam trains to this day, two are running and they have several for parts. Used to haul coal for an electric plant....every day. I think 54R is still with us because what the russians did after WWII. It has nothing to do with the cartridge, it has a great many drawbacks as well....rim anyone.

If you don't like the gun, fine, cool with me. I don't like plastic guns, I am not a fan of the Barbie doll for grown men, otherwise known as the AR platform.

What I don't need to do is come onto a thread specifically talking about something I dislike and go hunting for validation from a bunch of internet keyboard commandos. That is the sign of a very little person. Then coming back again and again to do nothing but belittle the topic of the thread.....again how small does a person have to be to do that.....I just don't understand it. You don't like it why are you here.....oh yea, a massive number of people do enjoy it and you need to try to find another guy like yourself that does not....you are hunting for just one little bad thing said so you can add it to your quiver for the next thread on something you don't like.

I'm lost now, what are we even getting at?

 

[someguy2800]

Because folks swooning over poorly designed rifles that armed a tyrannical state sometimes brings out my inner curmudgeon.

The only time Mosins were put to good use was by the Finns.

Gee I could have sworn they killed a small mountain of nazis with them.

 

[someguy2800]

I have a Mosin, an enfield, a mauser, an arisaka, and have owned a couple others and shot several others as well from the WW1 and WW2 era. Sitting at the bench looking at them the Mosin ranks toward the bottom of designs, however in actual practice shooting them in the field from field positions I can’t say that I can find anything to really complain about operations wise shooting a Mosin and a mauser back to back. I can shoot mine just as accurately as anything else and cycle and reload it just as fast too. If you took a squad of men and replaced their mausers or 1903’s with Mosins and gave them proper time to retrain, I honestly don’t think you would be reducing their combat effectiveness. I appreciate the simplicity because it’s what they needed. Russia would not have been better served with mausers because they would not have been able to make them fast enough. The Mosin is good for the same reason an AK47 is, it’s combat effectiveness that can be churned out in staggering qty on simple equipment. It’s kind of like arguing if a panzer 4 is better than a T34. Most objective people would say the panzer was a better tank, but they only built 30000 tanks and tank destroyers of all types to fight 57,000 T34’s on one front and 50,000 Sherman’s on the other, so you tell me what the winning strategy was.

 

[MistWolf]

So what is your criteria for what is a good rifle? It’s obviously not accuracy. What, plastic, modern, tactical, how much crap you can hang off of it? I guess when you get older you appreciate accuracy over the other things. Glad you like your inaccurate but flash rifle!

What?!?

I said nothing about precision or accuracy. I never compared the Mosin to anything modern. That would be ridiculous. I think you're projecting your own insecurities about "THE MIGHTY MOSIN"

Gee I could have sworn they killed a small mountain of nazis with them.

Badguys stacking badguys

 

[rust collector]

When we were awash in Swedish Mausers and K-31s, I did not give the MNs much attention. I did pick up a couple M-44s for $110 shipped, and sold one for $80, so had $30 in the one I kept. Later, I impulse bought a Tula 91/30 on a rack of 3 dozen or so at a Cabelas for $129. I was always fascinated by the old surplus rifles, and what it told about the people that designed and built them. I laid in a good supply of Czech training ammo and spam cans of 80s Russian ball.

Ironically, the cheap ammo that added to their popularity is now bringing $0.60 a round or better. I sold down to my last $40 spam can of 440, now going for $250-300 or more. That leaves a lifetime supply for this cowboy. I have recovered all the cost of my Mosins and then some. I do enjoy shooting them on suitable occasions.

 

[Random 8]

I had a friend working the counter at the local Farm and Fleet in the 2000 and naughts. He was a horrible enabler. They got in the shipping crates of Mosins. He'd call me when they had a fresh one, and if overtime had been generous, I'd stop by and look through them for cherries to pick.

For a time, I financed my addiction by purchasing former sniper rifles, and re-converting them to PU configuration with original glass and mounts which were also cheap at the time. (I never sold forgeries, all were stamped with a date of rebuild). Wish I had just the glass and mounts back at this time, they've done better than my portfolio. I flipped about $250 per rifle for doing this work, which financed an additional 2 rifles and some ammo.

I ended up keeping 2xM44s, 1x M38, 5 91-30s with special features ranging from unique splices, rare production variances, former PE sniper configuration, or just plain above average fit/finish/bore condition. I've since traded 2 of those to die hard collectors for Swiss things I needed. I also added an M39 Finn along the line, and enough ammo to secure my garage through a tornado when it was still cheap. I also kept one sniper rebuild for myself.

I still enjoy shooting my Mosins, the hard part is deciding which to bring to the range on a given day.

 

[chicharrones]

This thread needs video.

 

[caribou]

My first Mosin was a Finn M-28/30 and a few crates of Chinese copper washed on strippers.
Mosinitus set in with the incredible accuracy and reliability of the system.


Ive used one to make a living with for many many years, even worn out a couple.

Finn M-39's are accurate and any peasant can keep them going without a hitch.

Keep em clean like any firearm and they will shoot flawlessly, every time.
99% of Mosin problems are from the operator.










Make mine a Mosin!!

 

[wiscoaster]

...Make mine a Mosin!!

Hard to argue with those pics posted.

 

[Remington1911]

I'm lost now, what are we even getting at?

This may get a bit winded. I have not been here very long and this forum is a bit different from about every other I have come across in that it has no "off topic" section. Ok I get the why, but having a healthy off topic can be a good thing for this one reason.

My brain does not quite work like a "normal" one. Being 56 and having ADHD is something that has given me trouble for a long time. So I can be real hard to follow. I generally lay this out in the off topic section under something like what it is like to be 56 and have ADHD. That is not here so I do not have that ability here. And here a "not gun related" thread will get nuked in short order never to be seen again.

When I replied to you my intent was to agree with what you said, it just did not come out that way.

So if anyone comes across something that they go just what the actual ______ is that idiot trying to say keep in mind there is a disconnect between the thoughts in my head and what my fingers are doing.

 

[Remington1911]

My first Mosin was a Finn M-28/30 and a few crates of Chinese copper washed on strippers.
Mosinitus set in with the incredible accuracy and reliability of the system.


Ive used one to make a living with for many many years, even worn out a couple.

Finn M-39's are accurate and any peasant can keep them going without a hitch.

Keep em clean like any firearm and they will shoot flawlessly, every time.
99% of Mosin problems are from the operator.


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Make mine a Mosin!!

Please read my last post before killing me, it is not my intent to insult or anything like that, I have a real interest here and don't know the right way to ask this.

Cough.

You look native. I am also 25% myself, knowing the Res system in the lower 48, and knowing nothing about AK do the same kind of laws apply up there as they do down here. In this context hunting. Being native and then if on a Res does the Res set the laws for hunting like some do down here. Here it can differ from Res to Res. Some follow US state laws some do not, just depends.

 

[caribou]

Im the guy with the Wolf. I usually take the pictures and thats mostly of my wife and kids.
I am not Native Alaskan, but my wife, kids and family are Inupiaq Eskimo. Referred to by other tribes a "Malamuit'. They were so successful and the resources around them very abundant that they could feed alot of dogs and when Gold seekers came , they had plenty of spare dogs to sell and "Malamuit Huskys" are still a popular breed.
When the woman gets mad shell throw down that she married me 'cause Im not her cousin....LOL!!

Eskimo never signed treaties or were defeated in combat, so no reservations for them.The Alaska Native Lands Claim Act comes into play when the Territory became a State and the Indigenous folks won settlements in court and rights on lands, waterways and compensation for settlement.
Native lands and their governing are treated like a territory (like Samoa, Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico) and retain Rights such as subsistence hunting of Marine Mammals. They can hunt and fish in any National Park, Monument or Wildlife refuge in AK.
They have to abide by state hunting laws AND federal Hunting laws and theres some clash there.

The Mosin is an excellent Hunting rifle. The M-39 is the apex of Mosin's.
Being in the Arctic,the full wood stock protects the hands from burns and freezing to the metal. The cleaning rod clears snow from the muzzle and lets you scrub the chamber, keeping 'sticky bolt blues' away.
The sights are most excellent, the pistol grip of the M39 is an excellent ergonomic improvement.
The side mounted sling lets you carry the rifle comfortably across the chest or back.
A gloved finger can easily fit in the trigger guard.
The shorter stock helps when you were alot of clothing or a parka.
The straight bolt handle help with quick shooting with gloves or mittens on.
The only thing its missing is a butt trap for a cleaning kit.

 

[Megawatt maker]

Picked this baby up in the late 90s. Paid 200 for it if I recall. All original, and correct 1944 with a 1940 Progress scope on it. Mint bore. I don't think it was ever issued.

I wish I could go back and snatch up a bunch more. I recall seeing wholes cases of 91/30, M44s...for 70 bucks or less a pop. At the time, I didn't think they would ever be worth more than that...there were so many around...along with trailer loads of surplus Soviet spam cans of ammo for cheap too.

I'm getting old.

 

[Megawatt maker]

wow! I seemed to have stepped in a fire snt mound!

Was not expecting so many replies!

I see all this pictures of Mosin and it makes me want to shout, “WOLVERINES!!!”

… even if none were in the picture.

I have seen a couple, with scopes, in the current Ukraine news. Also a Tiger or Bear commercial version of the SVD.

I do wonder how many Ukrainian Farmers had a 91/30 over the mantle when the dance started and used it to express their displeasure.

Lots to like has shown up on this thread, Thanks, guys.

I never knew Sears sold a “Bannerman-ized” Mosin! Neat.

Speaking of Bannerman, those .30-06 actually are dangerous with full house .30-06 so look into it before thinking about one.

The US marked Mosin reminds me of another time the US was Pro Russian and anti Soviet… sort of like say … now. Also makes me inexplainably cold to think of Arch Angel!

As to nay sayers that posted, Fine, though I can not imagine why they bothered.

Yes, squib loads with .32 pistol bullets might be a fun and less punishing way to have more backyard fun and not Desintergrate small game!

Some where in my reading I saw a claim that Russian Partizans made sub sonic ammo for close range use by pulling the bullets dumping a portion of the powder and seating the bullet baxkwards. While this seemed insane to me, eapecially with concerns about minimal loads causing powder explosions, it sort of made sense. They made les noise, more like a subsonic pistol and so might be heard by units supporting their victims at less range, and make them harder ti locate. also the base of the bullet was far more blunt than the point and I suspect the bullet went unstable fast in hitting.

Still I would never try that, but it makes me wonder how well Trail boss or Unique might work for sub 1100 fps loads with 150 grain or so bullets and down.

BTW I find that it seems my M44 shoots better with the bayonet extended. Anyone else?

-kBob

The M44 was calibrated (ie...zeroed) with the bayonet extended. I believe they all were except the 91/30 sniper rigs, which were not issued with a bayonet.

 

[Remington1911]

Im the guy with the Wolf. I usually take the pictures and thats mostly of my wife and kids.
I am not Native Alaskan, but my wife, kids and family are Inupiaq Eskimo. Referred to by other tribes a "Malamuit'. They were so successful and the resources around them very abundant that they could feed alot of dogs and when Gold seekers came , they had plenty of spare dogs to sell and "Malamuit Huskys" are still a popular breed.
When the woman gets mad shell throw down that she married me 'cause Im not her cousin....LOL!!

Eskimo never signed treaties or were defeated in combat, so no reservations for them.The Alaska Native Lands Claim Act comes into play when the Territory became a State and the Indigenous folks won settlements in court and rights on lands, waterways and compensation for settlement.
Native lands and their governing are treated like a territory (like Samoa, Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico) and retain Rights such as subsistence hunting of Marine Mammals. They can hunt and fish in any National Park, Monument or Wildlife refuge in AK.
They have to abide by state hunting laws AND federal Hunting laws and theres some clash there.

The Mosin is an excellent Hunting rifle. The M-39 is the apex of Mosin's.
Being in the Arctic,the full wood stock protects the hands from burns and freezing to the metal. The cleaning rod clears snow from the muzzle and lets you scrub the chamber, keeping 'sticky bolt blues' away.
The sights are most excellent, the pistol grip of the M39 is an excellent ergonomic improvement.
The side mounted sling lets you carry the rifle comfortably across the chest or back.
A gloved finger can easily fit in the trigger guard.
The shorter stock helps when you were alot of clothing or a parka.
The straight bolt handle help with quick shooting with gloves or mittens on.
The only thing its missing is a butt trap for a cleaning kit.

Thank you for that.

I am working hard on learning that side of my...heritage. I think I am safe in saying you can thank your lucky stars your wife's kin did not have to deal with manifest destiny.

I could go on and on, but let me just say guys if you like "western" type stuff, grab a book and read up on just how the native peoples....got treated.....I can suggest a couple. The earth is weeping, burry my heart at wounded knee and empire of the summer moon. These mainly deal with western tribes.

Sorry for the OT, I know that is looked down upon here, this is a subject of great interest to me.

 

[Rockrivr1]

What?!?
I said nothing about precision or accuracy. I never compared the Mosin to anything modern. That would be ridiculous. I think you're projecting your own insecurities about "THE MIGHTY MOSIN"

Think you didn't understand the question. I asked what makes a rifle NOT a POS? The Mosin is accurate and you still think it's a POS. So what, in your estimation, makes a rifle NOT a POS?