Eleven Mike
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Come again?
Most annoying Gun Myths
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1911Tuner
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Come Again
Eleven Mike...That was a line from the movie "Unforgiven." English Bob was remarking on the attempted assassination of the US President, and saying why no one would ever attempt it on a King or Queen, because they would stand there..."In awe" at the sight of royalty.
It occurred shortly before Little Bill kicked the soup out of him.
Eleven Mike...That was a line from the movie "Unforgiven." English Bob was remarking on the attempted assassination of the US President, and saying why no one would ever attempt it on a King or Queen, because they would stand there..."In awe" at the sight of royalty.
It occurred shortly before Little Bill kicked the soup out of him.
Joe Demko
Member
In as much as that movie has a "hero," it's Little Bill IMO. English Bob, Munny, et. al. are lowlives and killers. Little Bill and his deputies do a pretty fair job of keeping them from plaguing the town. Yeah, I know Little Bill pissed all over the RKBA, but I still liked the character.
sicario103
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Bleh I'm tired of hearing:
*how someone in martial arts can easily disarm somone with a gun. Yes, it can be done under the right circumstances such as being super close where the retarded gun man for some inexplicable reason has his gun all the way stretched out (extended). If I have somone real close to me and I can't back away from him then I would make myself less square (position myself more diagonal) and protect my gun by lowering it close to my belt line and semi raise my other arm like if I was checking someone in basketball. I can fend off the attacker if he tries to get close and shoot him if I have to. But ofcourse in every martial art demonstration the gun man has his arm fully extended. Listen, there was a martial arts expert who said that he can disarm someone easily but in real life freeze is freeze.
*And the most hilarious myth that I ever heard (from third world countries). If you pull the bullet out and put salt in the casing will make a bullet wound impossible to close up.
*how someone in martial arts can easily disarm somone with a gun. Yes, it can be done under the right circumstances such as being super close where the retarded gun man for some inexplicable reason has his gun all the way stretched out (extended). If I have somone real close to me and I can't back away from him then I would make myself less square (position myself more diagonal) and protect my gun by lowering it close to my belt line and semi raise my other arm like if I was checking someone in basketball. I can fend off the attacker if he tries to get close and shoot him if I have to. But ofcourse in every martial art demonstration the gun man has his arm fully extended. Listen, there was a martial arts expert who said that he can disarm someone easily but in real life freeze is freeze.
*And the most hilarious myth that I ever heard (from third world countries). If you pull the bullet out and put salt in the casing will make a bullet wound impossible to close up.
Big Calhoun
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These have probably already been mentioned, and this is very general, but...
I can't stand myths about the mindsets of gun owners, in general. For instance, if you own more than one gun, then someone wants to say it's an "arsenal" and you must be in a militia or a gang. Or just the fact of owning a gun someone makes said owner a barbarian with no regard or respect for human life...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!?!?
The biggest annoyance is that to some, my gun owning ways somehow automatically make me a right-wing conservative. I'm actually a registered independent with more leanings towards the liberal side. But, hey, whatever. Smoke 'em if you got 'em!
I can't stand myths about the mindsets of gun owners, in general. For instance, if you own more than one gun, then someone wants to say it's an "arsenal" and you must be in a militia or a gang. Or just the fact of owning a gun someone makes said owner a barbarian with no regard or respect for human life...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!?!?
The biggest annoyance is that to some, my gun owning ways somehow automatically make me a right-wing conservative. I'm actually a registered independent with more leanings towards the liberal side. But, hey, whatever. Smoke 'em if you got 'em!
ZeSpectre
Member
Part of the point was that movie has no hero. People who believed what they were doing was right or just, but certainly not heroic at all.
Okay, back to the topic.
Eleven Mike
Member
Stick around. We'll square you away.
ProguninTN
Member
Myth
You're a wuss for doing that, learn martial art/be a man and fight someone[./QUOTE]
I've heard that. I will challenge them to go against an armed attacker with no weapons. Let's see them disarm somebody who's been practicing with the Tueller Drill.
Brass Fetcher
Member
Surely someone has mentioned
the M-16 bullets tumbling in flight? Or what about the rotation of the bullet from the rifling as a wounding mechanism?
JE223
the M-16 bullets tumbling in flight? Or what about the rotation of the bullet from the rifling as a wounding mechanism?
JE223
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
1. The little hole in the buttstock of an AR15/M16 is to release gas pressure.
2. Gun owners aren't sheeple (implied by various statemens on various gun forums)
2. Gun owners aren't sheeple (implied by various statemens on various gun forums)
SixForSure
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Adam and Jamie did a segment on that an I believe that they did indeed BUST it.
GlenJ
Member
Gunshop owners who try to sell SKS's and Mausers as GI bring backs just because they don't have an import mark. But yet they don't have bring back papers.
Combat Controller
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Wierd, I started a thread just like this one on another forum I moderate on.... Glad I found it. Here are a few things below (reposted) that got up my nose that have not been mentioned yet IIRC.
“One week after the balloon goes up, iron sights will rule the world”
This is one of the more pugnacious statements I have heard. It gets repeated a lot at appleseed shoots (an otherwise very good learning experience) and the like on certain forums. I guess you have to define the balloon going up first, and then you will have to explain to me what happened to disable every scope in the world. Every ACOG will suddenly stop working in a civil insurrection? War with Iran? What? I understand that having BUIS (back up iron sights) on your general purpose rifle is always a fantastic idea, but why a week after TEOTWAWKI does every scope stop working? I think that you can reinforce the idea that reliance on too much technology can weaken you, but if the statement really means 50 years after a major disaster that we have not recovered from, then I think knowing how to knapp flint will be as much, if not more important than, your now most likely useless rifle. I heard this again today, and had to address it.
Here is another one:
“You are an idiot if you don’t use XYZ for PDQ” When someone has already stated that what they have is all that is available.
Well, if you are grizzly hunting with a .22 you might just be, but you also may be the best, most stealthy hunter in the world. Ditto concealed carry, etc. Now, when it comes to ammo selection, we want something more effective, but if you need to work with what you have, then using your primary weapon (hint: it’s located above your shoulders) first to determine how to deploy it is important. In training we were told to to improvise, adapt, and overcome. If all you have is a pocket LED and a 28 ga single shot, then by gum let’s figure out how to use it to it’s maximum potential rather than give up and declare that it won’t work.
“One week after the balloon goes up, iron sights will rule the world”
This is one of the more pugnacious statements I have heard. It gets repeated a lot at appleseed shoots (an otherwise very good learning experience) and the like on certain forums. I guess you have to define the balloon going up first, and then you will have to explain to me what happened to disable every scope in the world. Every ACOG will suddenly stop working in a civil insurrection? War with Iran? What? I understand that having BUIS (back up iron sights) on your general purpose rifle is always a fantastic idea, but why a week after TEOTWAWKI does every scope stop working? I think that you can reinforce the idea that reliance on too much technology can weaken you, but if the statement really means 50 years after a major disaster that we have not recovered from, then I think knowing how to knapp flint will be as much, if not more important than, your now most likely useless rifle. I heard this again today, and had to address it.
Here is another one:
“You are an idiot if you don’t use XYZ for PDQ” When someone has already stated that what they have is all that is available.
Well, if you are grizzly hunting with a .22 you might just be, but you also may be the best, most stealthy hunter in the world. Ditto concealed carry, etc. Now, when it comes to ammo selection, we want something more effective, but if you need to work with what you have, then using your primary weapon (hint: it’s located above your shoulders) first to determine how to deploy it is important. In training we were told to to improvise, adapt, and overcome. If all you have is a pocket LED and a 28 ga single shot, then by gum let’s figure out how to use it to it’s maximum potential rather than give up and declare that it won’t work.
Sorry, if you are close enough, it doesn't matter what weapon you have, or how you hold it...it can be taken away, easily(unless you're Superman). It really just a matter of human physiology...it called REACTION TIME. That's to say that someone who initiates the attack, can complete it before you have time to react.
Note the underlined part...yes, it does require that you be a reasonable (relatively short) distance away. Although, I've seen a few accomplished martial artists that could close distance far faster than you would think humanly possible. Faster than even I would believe possible, if I hadn't seen them do it.
Crosshair
Member
HOW would some super duper martial artist keep the gun from going off? I know when I practive defencive shooting I have my finger wraped around the trigger, not like when you target shoot and have just your fingertip on the trigger. I can see you MABEE doing it with a DA gun, but with anything single action, the gun is going to go off.
Eleven Mike
Member
Well, this thread has ceased to be amusing.
Well, first of all, it doesn't matter if the gun goes off....most disarming techniques involve (as a first step) getting the gun pointed away from you. Maybe not so good for innocent bystanders, but it'll keep YOU from getting shot.(although most disarming techniques actually involve moving the gun upward, and away, so the risk to bystanders is minimal) And, of course the second step is disabling the guy with the gun. Most disarming techniques are counter-intuitive, in that you aggressively move TOWARDS the attacker (gun holder) and get inside his ability to shoot you. (same applies for knives). Disarm (or render weapon useless) THEN disable.
I used to teach self-defence classes (mostly to women, when I was heavily involved in martial arts) at the college I went to. One of the demonstrations I always did was to allow a student to hold a knife about 1/2 inch from my throat. And tell them to jam it in me as soon as I moved (from a position with my hands up and to the sides). While we used a butter knife, I would've had no fear of using a VERY sharp knife. We used the butter knife, because it would always end up flying across the room when I disarmed them. Again, there is NO WAY you can react as fast as needed. I also taught them to move in the middle of a sentence (pleading for mercy or WHATEVER)...this lulls the attacker in to a false sense of security (for some phsycological reason, no one expects you to attack while you're talking).
Now, some one that's REALLY fast, and knows exactly what they're doing, can probably snatch the gun away before you can fire EVEN IF YOUR FINGER IS ALREADY ON THE TRIGGER. Try holding onto ANYTHING while someone is bending you fingers backwards---the automatic (really autonomic) reaction to the pain is to release whatever you're holding. Again, if you manage to fire, so be it...but the gun will now be pointing in a different direction (possibly at YOU.)
So, in short (can't really explain it without demonstrated it), you first control the weapon, as you move inside the effective radius of the weapon, rendering it harmless, then follow with a disabling (or fatal) blow. (I usually taught it with a throat strike...fatal (in a coupla minutes if done properly, but definitely disabling, even if not).
..someone snatching the gun away from you(snatch the pebble
from my.hand)...you are holding them at gun point too close & if they are trying to close in on you..it is an attack and you shoot...and only a dumbell would hold his gun out at arms length on a person at close proximity...you hold the gun close to your body where he can't grab it(about where your kidney is)...and as to martial arts vs. firearm..martial arts doesn't have the same range of effectiveness
...karate kid is only good if he can get his 'flesh weapons' close enough to a gun-holding opponet before the opponet pulls the trigger, otherwise you go to meet the dragon guarding the gates of heaven...
from my.hand)...you are holding them at gun point too close & if they are trying to close in on you..it is an attack and you shoot...and only a dumbell would hold his gun out at arms length on a person at close proximity...you hold the gun close to your body where he can't grab it(about where your kidney is)...and as to martial arts vs. firearm..martial arts doesn't have the same range of effectiveness
...karate kid is only good if he can get his 'flesh weapons' close enough to a gun-holding opponet before the opponet pulls the trigger, otherwise you go to meet the dragon guarding the gates of heaven...brerrabbit
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Not going against the h2h types, but devils advocate does have a role,,,
If I am pointing a gun at someone, I will do it at a distance. A gun is a distance weapon, from a distance of one to fifty feet, there is no aprecable loss of force in the bullet. Only a fool of a gunman would get close enough to someone to allow them the chance to remove the gun or hold it at extended arm position like in most of the H2H scenarios.
A knife against the throat? Why? The primary strength of a knife at close quarters is stabbing, not cutting. If I am holding someone while using a knife, I am going to stick them with it about an inch deep against their back while keeping them captive with my other arm. If they turn towards me, they stab themselves, if they turn away, my other arm keeps me and the knife in place. Any resistance and the knife goes deeper. This is an actual historically tried and true method of mugging and has used quite often.
Most H2H combat once a weapon is deployed will only succeed if the hostage is very skilled in hand to hand, and the man with the weapon is extremely unskilled. But then again, resistance in any form is usually benificial if you believe you are about to die.
Myth that I hate the most, that a .22 will not kill or penetrate to the point of being lethal. Or that the majority of people will shrug off getting shot with a .22
a HD myth that I hate, only guns that will kill with one shot are useful for home defense.
The biggest myth is that every home invader is a pcp crazed psycho that is not affected by being shot repeatedly by smaller caliber weapons and that is what you must prepare for by getting larger weapons.
If I am pointing a gun at someone, I will do it at a distance. A gun is a distance weapon, from a distance of one to fifty feet, there is no aprecable loss of force in the bullet. Only a fool of a gunman would get close enough to someone to allow them the chance to remove the gun or hold it at extended arm position like in most of the H2H scenarios.
A knife against the throat? Why? The primary strength of a knife at close quarters is stabbing, not cutting. If I am holding someone while using a knife, I am going to stick them with it about an inch deep against their back while keeping them captive with my other arm. If they turn towards me, they stab themselves, if they turn away, my other arm keeps me and the knife in place. Any resistance and the knife goes deeper. This is an actual historically tried and true method of mugging and has used quite often.
Most H2H combat once a weapon is deployed will only succeed if the hostage is very skilled in hand to hand, and the man with the weapon is extremely unskilled. But then again, resistance in any form is usually benificial if you believe you are about to die.
Myth that I hate the most, that a .22 will not kill or penetrate to the point of being lethal. Or that the majority of people will shrug off getting shot with a .22
a HD myth that I hate, only guns that will kill with one shot are useful for home defense.
The biggest myth is that every home invader is a pcp crazed psycho that is not affected by being shot repeatedly by smaller caliber weapons and that is what you must prepare for by getting larger weapons.
ProguninTN
Member
aspen
I have to agree with aspen.
I have to agree with aspen.
FM2Wildcat
member
Well actually it could but it depends if your close enough, what type of airliner and where exactly you hit it. It would have to be a very very lucky shot.
Remember that 50 cals were used in our WWII fighters and even our Korean war era jets such as the F-86 Sabre. But they were throwing a lot of lead to shred the other plane.
If a 50 hit you in the side, it might not cut you in half cleanly but there would not be much left holding you together.
But I do think it would blow your head-clean off..
Loved the Little Bill reference too, I see there are other fans of his here too.
Great forum all and just glad to be here.
Cheers!
FM2
I've always been a huge fan of the experts telling me how a metal detector wouldn't find a Glock. I'd hear that one at least once a month when working the door at one of our more popular clubs. A slight disagreement would start and then I'd look at them in all seriousness, scan my hip (where my keys were, under my jacket) and say Funny, it finds mine okay.
Or the "my so-and-so has a 44 magnum. It's so powerfull it will shoot thru a engine block and th reciol so sever it knocks him on his ass" . Funny how a full grown man would have that happen when my ex (all 5"5" and 112lbs of her) never had any such problem when she shot my 2" 629. Although she wasn't a fan of it, especially with 240s in it (hot 180's were a no no) I never once saw her fly thru the air or fall back.
And maybe more of a pet peeve than a myth, but what the hell is with the bad guy going out to rescue anyone and arming himself with only a handgun. Case in point, Pink Cadallac with Eastwood. End part of the movie and they are trying to get away. They are in a room full of rifles and assault rifles and he takes 2 grenades ( cause everyone likes a good explosion of course) and a few mags for the 45. What about the AK's on the wall and the stack of mags? If my dog starts barking her head off at God knows what hour of the night (fairly secluded area with a decent length driveway), with intent, I have a light on the shotgun for a reason. It's the same reason I have a 45 in a paddle holster. Or why I have a spare tire and a cell phone in the car.
Or the "my so-and-so has a 44 magnum. It's so powerfull it will shoot thru a engine block and th reciol so sever it knocks him on his ass" . Funny how a full grown man would have that happen when my ex (all 5"5" and 112lbs of her) never had any such problem when she shot my 2" 629. Although she wasn't a fan of it, especially with 240s in it (hot 180's were a no no) I never once saw her fly thru the air or fall back.
And maybe more of a pet peeve than a myth, but what the hell is with the bad guy going out to rescue anyone and arming himself with only a handgun. Case in point, Pink Cadallac with Eastwood. End part of the movie and they are trying to get away. They are in a room full of rifles and assault rifles and he takes 2 grenades ( cause everyone likes a good explosion of course) and a few mags for the 45. What about the AK's on the wall and the stack of mags? If my dog starts barking her head off at God knows what hour of the night (fairly secluded area with a decent length driveway), with intent, I have a light on the shotgun for a reason. It's the same reason I have a 45 in a paddle holster. Or why I have a spare tire and a cell phone in the car.
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