? Most effective, least time involved primer pocket cleaning?

[ReloaderFred]

YellowLab,

I don't know how long you've been shooting, or your experience, but you are pooh poohing some known facts. I've seen two guns that were blown up by slam fires, both M1 Garands. I've also been present when a 1911 Colt was dropped from the hip and landed on it's muzzle and went off. I also know of at least two Model 59 handguns that fell out of holsters during foot pursuits and went off when they hit the ground on their muzzles.

You may want to go to the CSP handloading forum and ask the question about slam fires and see how many responses you get. One poster calls himself Slamfire, and has had two of them and tracked them down to the use of Federal primers in M1 Garands and M1A's.

They can, and do, happen. I do load 30 rounds in my AR magazines by the way, without any problem, but pre Series 80 Colt 1911's will go off if they land on the muzzle, and so will any other handgun that uses an inertia firing pin without some sort of mechanical block that is removed when the trigger is pulled. And slam fires can and do occur. They are mostly encountered in High Power shooting, since that's where most of the experience is, and they shoot many, many rounds per year.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[callgood]

One of these http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=RECPUN&type=store chucked in an electric drill (slow speed) or screwdriver. Once uniformed they will also clean crud out of the pocket.

I'm not the world's most experienced reloader so I try to eliminate as many variables as possible so that if something does go not as planned I have fewer things to consider. And I shoot at a volume that allows me to do so. If I fired a bucket every weekend I'd probably have to change my tactics.

 

[superhornet]

To build good reliable reloads.....clean the primer pockets. This little step (as some have mentioned) will allow primer seating to the same depth time after time. 99% of handload failures has to do with incorrect primer seating depth......do it......why take a chance. This of course is my own humble opinion and I am not an expert like many on this forum. I have only been reloading since Sept 18, 1949.

 

[snuffy]

I would inspect primer pockets though. In a run of Remington .222 Remington chrome plated brass I bought awhile back, I found a number of primer pockets with very eccentric holes that would have affected accuracy and discarded them.

Where can I get some of this chrome plated brass?

 

[ReloaderFred]

He really means nickel plated brass. You're better off with regular, unplated brass, as the nickel flakes off the brass and is harder than the steel of your barrel. The plating process also shortens the life of the brass considerably and you won't get as many reloads out of it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[snuffy]

He really means nickel plated brass. You're better off with regular, unplated brass, as the nickel flakes off the brass and is harder than the steel of your barrel. The plating process also shortens the life of the brass considerably and you won't get as many reloads out of it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Well Fred, I dissagree strongly with your take on nickel plated brass. It is NOT harder than steel. Harder than plain brass, yes. It is more durable then un-plated brass, it will not corrode in leather ammo carriers/loops.

I've used nickel plated brass in a lot of rifle calibers and all my handgun rounds. I've NEVER seen it flake or fail sooner than plain brass. It's easier to find in the grass when shooting IPSC or IDPA.

Some must think it's actually chrome, if it were it would be hard enough to possibly cut steel or wear it faster. This gets discussed and cussed about often on the internet. It always ends up in a draw, everybody deciding to either use it or dump it in the nearest garbage can.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Snuffy,

I knew when I posted that it would cause some discussion. I'll include a quote from Varmint Al's website that goes along with my experience. I use nickel plated pistol cases, but they don't last near as long as plain brass. I've also had many nickel plated rifle cases flake off around the neck after trimming. I usually load nickel rifle brass one time and then put it into the scrap box to sell to the recycler.

Fred

Here's the quote from Varmint Al:

FORGET NICKEL-PLATED BRASS.... I liked the looks and feel of nickel-plated cases, but I don't load them anymore and here is why. The cases are strong and it is easy enough to outside neck turn them. That is not the problem. The nickel-plating on the case neck ID is like sandpaper. The only way you might be able to remove this grit is with a case neck ID reamer if you have a "tight neck" chamber and enough neck wall thickness to work with. If you have a loaded nickel-plated round laying around and don't believe me, just pull the bullet. It will look like you pulled it out of a tube of 180 grit wet/dry sandpaper. If you pull the bullet out of a brass case mouth that has been carefully chamfered and polished with the steel wool process above, it will be essentially like out of the bullet box. Want copper in the barrel? Start by sanding the surface of those nice polished precision bullets. Try it with a Moly Coated bullet and it is even worse; the nickel-plated cases scrape off the Moly. The nickel-plated case neck IDs don't get any better after you reload them a few times. They are still like sandpaper. Think about a few of those nickel pieces of grit imbedding into the copper of the bullet and what they do to your rifle barrel! I have heard that the nickel is hard enough to score some reloading dies and also wear down the expander ball. Any metal that hard, should be kept away from your precision barrel. I have heard that some people have had success in removing the nickel plate from the neck IDs with a stainless steel brush and a drill motor. I haven't tried it.

MORE ABOUT NICKEL PLATING.... This is interesting about the mechanical properties of the nickel plating:
Electroless nickel plating is a process for chemically applying nickel-alloy deposits onto metallic substrates using an auto catalytic immersion process without the use of electrical current. ...snip....
Hardness and Wear Resistance
One of the most important properties for many applications is hardness. As deposited, the micro-hardness of electroless nickel coatings is about 500 to 700 HK100. That is approximately equal to 45 to 58 HRC and equivalent to many hardened alloy steels. Heat treatment causes these alloys to precipitation harden and can produce hardness values as high as 1100 HK100, equal to most commercial hard chromium coatings. ...snip...

Note that if you anneal your nickel plated necks, you are hardening the nickel plating. It can be harder than many alloyed steels before you anneal and can increase is hardness as much as 2 fold by precipitation hardening. I sure wouldn't want those tiny little hard pieces inside the neck getting embedded in the bullet's copper surface and then fire lapping my nice shiny barrel.

Here is the link to the page: http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Nickel_Brass

Hope this helps

Fred

 

[redneck2]

You may want to go to the CSP handloading forum and ask the question about slam fires and see how many responses you get. One poster calls himself Slamfire, and has had two of them and tracked them down to the use of Federal primers in M1 Garands and M1A's.

I used Federal match primers in my first AR loads. Should I use something different??

Man they are good. Back to back 1/2" groups at 125 yards, prone

FWIW....my friend that shoots High Power had a shooter blow up an AR next to him this past summer. This guy has been reloading and shooting a long time. Just about had to be a slam fire.

If you're looking for accuracy, you might want to get Fred Sinclair's book. I guess just because he won benchrest competitions and set national records doesn't really mean he knows anything. Actually, he's probably an idiot because he feels primer uniforming/flash hole uniforming is one of the best things to do for accuracy

I love the attitude of some people. "I've never done it, so it must be stupid"

To answer the question, you can de-prime then tumble. Does a great job of cleaning the pockets. Make sure you blow the media out of the case by blowing air thru the primer pocket.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Used to use the Lee Yankee screwdriver type cleaner.

Once upon a time I would decap with a punch and base set or one of the bench rest squeeze the handle sort of tools, then had Lee yankee screwdriver type primer pocket cleaners mounted pointing up in the bench top - pick up case and place on base, hammer primer out and run the case once on the Lee tool. It didn't clean the primer pocket squeeky clean but it meant the primer pockets came clean in a hurry in the tumbler. I like the process because I wanted clean brass in my resizing die.

These days I get a little nervous about the lead part of lead styphenate but I can't argue with the folks who say run the primer pocket uniformer every time because the same forces that make primer pockets grow sideways with heavy loads just might squeeze them lengthwise.

The lead exposure still worries me though if anybody has suggestions.

 

[ReloaderFred]

As with handling any lead, all you really need to do is wash your hands and try not to breath in any of the dust created when you clean the primer pockets. You shouldn't smoke, eat or put your hands in your mouth or nose before washing them. Lead in solid form can't be absorbed epidermally, so just take a few precautions and set up your equipment properly to lessen the chances of ingesting lead. You're probably getting more exposure from just shooting the rounds than you are in handling them prior to reloading them.

Soap and water will take care of most of it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[wolf_from_wv]

http://www.rcbs.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=3&s3=18

I have one of these, I don't use it very often but I bet it would become quite fast and effictive when combined with a cordless drill.

It is...

 

[redneck2]

You shouldn't smoke, eat or put your hands in your mouth or nose before washing them

.

So this means I can't pick my nose while I'm reloading?? DANG!!!

 

[ReloaderFred]

I was trying to be nice.............

Fred

 

[redneck2]

Fred says

I was trying to be nice.............

You should know better than try to be nice. Somebody's gonna call you out

 

[JDGray]

I clean all my cases, every time, with my little Lee pocket cleaner.

 

[Mantis]

...I use a primer pocket uniformer from Sinclair. I use it in a cordless drill. The first time around it removes metal as it uniforms the primer pocket. In subsequent loadings, it mainly removes the debris but also keeps the primer pocket uniform.

I do the same thing. It is fast and works great. No need to have a separate brush to clean out the pockets.

 

[GoSlash27]

Okay...
I'm very new at this whole reloading thing, but I noticed immediately that my handgun rounds are less prone to light strikes if I clean the pockets.

 

[The Bushmaster]

GoSlash27...It seems that you are a bit ahead of a lot of people...That is another reason to clean pockets. The biggest reason is to insure that all primers seat against the bottom of the primer pocket. It does tend to minimumize the chances of a misfire...

 

[TooTaxed]

Regarding the slam fires...I use the CCI #34 LR primers made specifically for semi and full auto ammunition...7.62-mm NATO, .30-06, and 7.62 x 39...slightly shorter walls so they are less likely to protrude and cause slam fires. I've never had any problems using regular primers, but I always run my finger over the primers on loaded cases to weed out any protrusions.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Good procedure TooTaxed...Same thing I do right after priming a set of 50 or 20, depending on whether they are pistol or rifle. While they are still in the loading block I run my finger over them and eye-ball them as I do it...

 

[Idano]

I chuck my pocket cleaning brushes up in my drill press; it takes me less then 5 minutes to clean 100 rounds. It so simple and so quick to do; I just pick up a case in each hand and go as fast as I can pick them up.

 

[snuffy]

Fred, I don't know how I failed to follow up on this over a year ago. but just who has proclaimed this varmint Al an expert?

I have heard that the nickel is hard enough to score some reloading dies and also wear down the expander ball. Any metal that hard, should be kept away from your precision barrel. I have heard that some people have had success in removing the nickel plate from the neck IDs with a stainless steel brush and a drill motor. I haven't tried it.

All he has said here is hearsay, repeated until everybody accepts it as fact. The internet is full of "I HAVE HEARD" myths.

Hardness and Wear Resistance
One of the most important properties for many applications is hardness. As deposited, the micro-hardness of electroless nickel coatings is about 500 to 700 HK100. That is approximately equal to 45 to 58 HRC and equivalent to many hardened alloy steels. Heat treatment causes these alloys to precipitation harden and can produce hardness values as high as 1100 HK100, equal to most commercial hard chromium coatings.

The heat required to harden the thin nickle plating on brass cases would MELT the underlying brass! Nickel plating is all of a few MICRONS thick. 2.54 MICRONS = 0.0001.Nickel is harder than WROUGHT IRON. OH yeah, wrought iron is some REALLY soft stuff (softer than many brass alloys).Nickel plating can be heat treated to make it moderately hard, RC63 to 65, but you won't find that on a cartridge case.

 

[cheygriz]

cleaning primer pocletsd

Why would you want to???

I load on a progressive, including 3/8 MOA varmint ammo, and I've never seen a reason to do it.

Things like cleaning pockets and weighing individual charges are holdovers from grand daddy's day, when some duphus gun rag writer that didn't now any better thought it might be a good idea.

 

[Deavis]

I've been tellin' people on here for a year now about this fine tool made from an old and probably broken choke or throttle cable from a lawn mower or tractor or from anything that uses a pull cable.

Come on Bushmaster, everyone knows you built your house out of a glue stick, 2 rocks, and a piece of angle iron

When you get new brass, ream the pockets and never think about it again unless you feel you absolutely must. If it makes you feel good, then do it.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Deavis,

Angle iron??? Where did you get a piece of angle iron? Can I have it? Might make a nice peak on my roof above those rocks. And that's two glue sticks...Want the instructions?