Most inherently accurate centerfire handgun cartridge
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cratz2
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Well, I don't know about inherently accurate, but with equal shot placement, larger diameter bullets are most likely to result in higher number scores.
Right?
Right?
actually equal shot placement would result in equal scores...except in ipsc
that is why many competitive sports have a minimum caliber floor (9mm for ipsc, .32 for CASS). probably why the question also limits answers to centerfire. otherwise the obvious answer would be the .22lr as the world most accurate handgun cartridge
that is why many competitive sports have a minimum caliber floor (9mm for ipsc, .32 for CASS). probably why the question also limits answers to centerfire. otherwise the obvious answer would be the .22lr as the world most accurate handgun cartridge
unspellable
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accuracy
I am of the opinion that the cartridge is irrelevant to the question. Any cartridge with an optimum load will be as inherently accurate as any other. The differences are in the platfrom it is launched from. (And a lot of cartridges do not get the benifit of an optimum load.)
That said, at longer ranges bullets with a poor ballistic coefficient such as wadcutters will be affected more by cross winds. Also bullets traveling in the transonic velocity region are affected more by cross winds. (The reason why a standard velocity 22 LR tends to be more accurate than a high velocity 22 LR out of a rifle.)
Some cartridges have an undeserved reputation for indifferent accuracy. One that springs to mind is the 45 Colt. The cartridge itself is accurate enough, but it is cursed with revolvers having over sized chambers and undersisized throats. A hang over from black powder days. It would benifit greatly by modernizing the chamber dimensions.
That's part of the 454 Casull's secret. Aside from being a lengthened 45 Colt the SAAMI spec calls for very tight chambers.
BTW: Towards the end of the 19th centruy the 44 Russian was probably the best known target revolver cartridge but the 32-44 and 38-44 (Not to be confused with the 38-44 loading of the 38 Special which came many years later, it has no connection at all with the 38 Special.) were probably more accurate as they did away with cylinder throat problems. These two cartridges were reasonably well known and it's a mystery to me why they do not appear in "Cartridges of the World". Right around the turn of the century and shortly after, the Webley Green revolvers were the ones to beat. They had a cylinder lockup that's never been matched since, not even by the S&W triple lock.
I am of the opinion that the cartridge is irrelevant to the question. Any cartridge with an optimum load will be as inherently accurate as any other. The differences are in the platfrom it is launched from. (And a lot of cartridges do not get the benifit of an optimum load.)
That said, at longer ranges bullets with a poor ballistic coefficient such as wadcutters will be affected more by cross winds. Also bullets traveling in the transonic velocity region are affected more by cross winds. (The reason why a standard velocity 22 LR tends to be more accurate than a high velocity 22 LR out of a rifle.)
Some cartridges have an undeserved reputation for indifferent accuracy. One that springs to mind is the 45 Colt. The cartridge itself is accurate enough, but it is cursed with revolvers having over sized chambers and undersisized throats. A hang over from black powder days. It would benifit greatly by modernizing the chamber dimensions.
That's part of the 454 Casull's secret. Aside from being a lengthened 45 Colt the SAAMI spec calls for very tight chambers.
BTW: Towards the end of the 19th centruy the 44 Russian was probably the best known target revolver cartridge but the 32-44 and 38-44 (Not to be confused with the 38-44 loading of the 38 Special which came many years later, it has no connection at all with the 38 Special.) were probably more accurate as they did away with cylinder throat problems. These two cartridges were reasonably well known and it's a mystery to me why they do not appear in "Cartridges of the World". Right around the turn of the century and shortly after, the Webley Green revolvers were the ones to beat. They had a cylinder lockup that's never been matched since, not even by the S&W triple lock.
It's important to eliminate as many variables as possible for this comparison--and there are a bunch.
For a start, a fixed barrel rig, indoors with the best possible load for each cartridge would have to be evaluated. The best rate of twist for that load would also have to be used.
50 yds. would be a good distance to maximize differences.
The winner would likely be the best stabilized round with the best ballistic coefficient.
For a start, a fixed barrel rig, indoors with the best possible load for each cartridge would have to be evaluated. The best rate of twist for that load would also have to be used.
50 yds. would be a good distance to maximize differences.
The winner would likely be the best stabilized round with the best ballistic coefficient.
I have seen 7 BR's that will hold less than an inch at 100 yards in an XP-100. yes the 6 BR will probably do just as good. it is really scary how well they shoot. everything else is a distant second and that would probably be the 38 spec , 45 acp and 41 mag
The first four shots out of my xp 7mm br(still have the target), 1st to see the piont of impact, 2-3-4 you could covet with a dime. all basically in the same hole. short harris bipod ,100yrds seated at a bench.
love it
Norm
The first four shots out of my xp 7mm br(still have the target), 1st to see the piont of impact, 2-3-4 you could covet with a dime. all basically in the same hole. short harris bipod ,100yrds seated at a bench.
love it
Norm
sbow
Member
Snake Eyes
Member
.32 Long? .32 S&W Long??
Bah!!
.32 Colt New Police!
Bah!!
.32 Colt New Police!
telomerase
Member
It might be the .25 ACP!
Well, how would we know if it were? Anybody have a red dot on their Raven?
Well, how would we know if it were? Anybody have a red dot on their Raven?
grendelbane
Member
The .25 might prove accurate if fired from the right gun. Even the 5.5 mm Velo-Dog cartridge would probably be accurate if fired from the right gun.
Cartridges like the .45 ACP and the .38 Special have a big advantage in that lots of experimentation has been done over the decades to try and bring out their best. This has not been done with new cartridges like the .40 S&W, for example.
I have fired one exceptional group with the .40 S&W cartridge. But I fired it from a 610 revolver.
Cartridges like the .45 ACP and the .38 Special have a big advantage in that lots of experimentation has been done over the decades to try and bring out their best. This has not been done with new cartridges like the .40 S&W, for example.
I have fired one exceptional group with the .40 S&W cartridge. But I fired it from a 610 revolver.
bfoster
Member
grendelbane,
FWIW, rim turned and shortened 5,5 Velo-Dog fired from a Pachmayr modified Colt Woodsman was used (in part) to win a national level match by the younger Askins just prior to WWII.
Bob
FWIW, rim turned and shortened 5,5 Velo-Dog fired from a Pachmayr modified Colt Woodsman was used (in part) to win a national level match by the younger Askins just prior to WWII.
Bob
Wildalaska
member
7.65 Nagant...just like the Soviet Marksmen
WilddadadaAlaska
WilddadadaAlaska
otomik
Member
i think the most important factor in inherent accuracy is time of flight so how about 7.62mm Tokarev? of couse nobody is making accurate loads commercially so inherent accuracy might not matter much.
short time of flight and very precise loadings with the exact same specs from round to round, is there some other principle behind accuracy that i'm missing?
short time of flight and very precise loadings with the exact same specs from round to round, is there some other principle behind accuracy that i'm missing?
unspellable
Member
time of flight effects on accuracy
<< short time of flight and very precise loadings with the exact same specs from round to round, is there some other principle behind accuracy that i'm missing? >>
Yes, there is something you are missing. Drift due to a cross wind is proportional to the velocity loss during flight, not the time of flight. For subsonic bullets the air drag on the bullet is proportional to the square of the speed. As you approach the speed of sound the formula for the drag gets messy. That's why a standard velocity 22 LR will tend to be more accurate than a high velocity 22 LR. The high velocity loses more velocity on the way to the target and suffers more from cross winds. As you get beyond the transonic region the drag formula settles down again. If you stay away from the transonic region the bullet shape will have more effect on drift than the velocity.
For high velocity center fire rifle long range target shooting it's common to use a boat tailed spitzer for its low drag. The weak point on this type of bullet is that any assymetry in the boat tail portion of the bullet tends to "steer" it, so to take advantage of the shape you must have a precision made bullet.
But the original question was "which cartridge" not which load. I'll maintain that if we neglect wind drift, any cartridge is as accurate as any other and its the load and the platform it's launched from that make the differences.
<< short time of flight and very precise loadings with the exact same specs from round to round, is there some other principle behind accuracy that i'm missing? >>
Yes, there is something you are missing. Drift due to a cross wind is proportional to the velocity loss during flight, not the time of flight. For subsonic bullets the air drag on the bullet is proportional to the square of the speed. As you approach the speed of sound the formula for the drag gets messy. That's why a standard velocity 22 LR will tend to be more accurate than a high velocity 22 LR. The high velocity loses more velocity on the way to the target and suffers more from cross winds. As you get beyond the transonic region the drag formula settles down again. If you stay away from the transonic region the bullet shape will have more effect on drift than the velocity.
For high velocity center fire rifle long range target shooting it's common to use a boat tailed spitzer for its low drag. The weak point on this type of bullet is that any assymetry in the boat tail portion of the bullet tends to "steer" it, so to take advantage of the shape you must have a precision made bullet.
But the original question was "which cartridge" not which load. I'll maintain that if we neglect wind drift, any cartridge is as accurate as any other and its the load and the platform it's launched from that make the differences.
Crownvicman
Member
How about the .44 Russian. Very popular as a target round 120 years ago.
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