Mountain Lions and Guns

[Zaydok Allen]

Well, after nine years of patiently waiting, and working out in the woods on a very regular basis, yesterday I finally got to see a mountain lion. I was driving back to my office and it dropped down onto the road about 40 feet in front of me. I thought it was a deer at first, but saw a long tail as it dove over the other side of the road. I pulled up and watched it run full boar across a grassy valley, and disappear into a thicket of spruce trees. It looked to be a little over 7 feet long from nose to tail, and between 120 and 140 lbs. It wasn’t a record breaker by any means, but he was definitely a well fed, mature male.

He covered between 60 and 70 yards in less than 5 seconds, and in 5 or 6 bounds. Even though I know all cats are fast, I am blown away at how quickly it was moving. I can check that one off of my wildlife list……

The point: I have always said that I carry a gun while hiking on my own time because of cats and crazzies (I can't carry at work.). Yesterday made me realize that from now on, my answer will leave the cats out. Unless I saw it coming, there is no way in hell I would be able to draw, aim, and shoot to stop one, if it was ambushing me from behind that is.

So I guess the real point is: No matter how fast you think you may be, we all need to practice speed draws with our sidearms. And also, situational awareness will be your greatest asset, no matter who or what is attacking you, because the sooner you detect a threat, the sooner you can put things in motion to stop the threat.

Good luck everyone. Remember, practice ammo is expenssive right now, but it is cheap in comparison to your life.

 

[steveno]

I believe mountain lions very likely to attack from behind anyway so add that to how quick they are

 

[OregonJohnny]

Congratulations. Seeing a cougar in the wild has been a dream of mine since I was obsessed with them around age 12. On long family road trips through Oregon, Washington, and California, I would stare out into the trees zipping past along the more remote highways, hopelessly optimistic that I'd see one at any second.

I agree that situational awareness is your most valuable defense against an attack from a healthy, mature mountain lion - because it's going to come from behind or above without warning. If it's old, young, sick, injured, or rabid, all bets are off.

Even my best friend, who has spent 10x the amount of time out in the Oregon wilderness than me, has only ever caught a split-second glimpse of one that was crashing through the thick brush after a deer. You are very lucky to have had such a clear and lasting look.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I consider myself very lucky. It is an experience I may never have again.

 

[Torian]

We've seen mountain lions in our military installation here in Arizona. We also tend to frequently run off the beaten trail.

I've of the mindset that if you've ever SEEN a mountain lion (unless you are out in the boonies), you already have a problem. By nature, they should be avoiding us entirely and should not be seen at all.

One that no longer has a natural fear of humans is a potential problem cat down the road.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Yep. When they start showing up around people, and show no fear of humans, they should be put down IMO. Removing that trait for a lack of fear of humans from their gene pool will help the speciecs in the long run when you think about it.

 

[Torian]

Yep. When they start showing up around people, and show no fear of humans, they should be put down IMO. Removing that trait for a lack of fear of humans from their gene pool will help the speciecs in the long run when you think about it.

Absolutely.

 

[sheephearder]

Having spent a lot of time in the woods I have only seen one also. There has been a lot of Black Bear but only one cougar. A 9mm or 38 and bigger is all that I consider necessary but doubt that a person would ever get a shot at one that is attacking as they usually come from behind.

 

[22-rimfire]

Have not spent a lot of time in the woods where mountain lions roam. I consider your sighting remarkable and one to remember for a long time. I see lions at the zoo and my first thought beyond... pretty animal is the pure power they embody.

In the Eastern woods, I had never seen a bobcat for years, but have seen a number now and find them to be a remarkable animal to see. Some feel that way about black bears unless you're in a park.

In terms of defense, they are stealth predators and would attack you when you are least expecting it. But I doubt it would be an instant kill for me (although a mountain lion has the means on people), and you might be able to defend yourself after the initial attack. Maybe.

 

[silicosys4]

I love big cats, but my motto is; if I see it, I will try and shoot it. If it doesn't need to be shot, it will be long gone before I get a shot off. It will only stick around long enough to be shot if it has no fear of humans...you can be darn sure that if you see a cat, he knows you are there. A cat that has no fear of humans will start hunting house pets. Maybe they will never get beyond eating the occasional dog or cat that crosses its path, but it will start hunting around human habitations looking for house pets. Then one day it might see a child playing in the yard.

Personally, I have only seen the back half of a cougar once, disappearing into the woods at night.

That said, I know of 3 people who have shot cougars while hunting, when they were not hunting for cougars.
One guy was skinning out his animal in the woods, and turned around to see a crouched cat moving towards him. He was with his buddy and his buddy put the cat down, since he still had his rifle with him.
Second guy was out hunting a logging road and turned around to see a cougar stalking him down the middle of the road, he said the cat froze when it realized it had been spotted, but my buddy went down on one knee to take a shot and as soon as he took a knee the cougar charged, but was ultimately killed while charging.
Third guy was taking a midday nap next to an uprooted tree, woke up to see a big female cat on a log 8 feet away, just crouched, watching him.....He said they locked eyes, and he started slowly reaching for his gun...when the cat saw his hand move towards his gun, he said the cat went into a crouch, ears back.....expecting him to flee, preparing for a chase and kill...but he had enough time to raise his rifle, sight through the scope, and he shot it point blank from 5 feet away. I guess it fell on him.....scared him pretty bad because he didn't know if he got it and it was thrashing hard in its death throes.

In each case they had plenty of time to react.

Think about how a house cat approaches its prey....slowly and in a crouch. They are an ambush predator and rely on surprise, and won't necessarily come crashing through the woods at a dead run as soon as it sights prey.

Don't assume a gun is useless against a big cat. Plenty of people have defended themselves against cougars with firearms. Come to think about it, judging by the people I know who have killed cougars, the statistics concerning cougar attacks might be higher if everybody reported them...but the guy's i have talked to have them mounted, and just tell the story to their buddies....over and over and over and over.......

 

[Schwing]

This is really hard for me to say because I am not a dog lover in any way shape or form but the best defense is to have a dog or 2 with you. The lions will generally avoid them and dogs will know they are there a lot sooner than you will. I watched a friend of mine tree a lion with her two dogs and take it down with her .357 (it was a legal hunt). It is quite the beast and a great trophy.

I don't have any illusions about being able to get the draw on a cat. I think your chances of even seeing it before it has its paws around you are slim to none.

 

[Pilot]

When I hiked the Colorado Rockies, I carried a firearm as I usually do. I got in the habit of doing a 360 every few minutes to check my six. If the big cats want to attack you when you are walking it will be from behind, and they will go for the back of your neck. It is true, that once they decide to attack they do so very quickly, but they stalk quietly and slowly, and that is the time you want to see one.

That being said, they are typically shy of humans, but once in a while they do go after us or our pets.

 

[pyro073]

I had a close call with a big cat when I was in my Teen years. My old man and I were camping deep in that CO mountains. I woke up at about 0200 and had to take a leak and figured I had better be armed. Right as I go done, I heard something in front of me so I shined the light at it and saw two glowing eyes and the cat they belonged to. He was in a stance like he was ready to pounce. Right as I got the old Ruger Blackhawk leveled on him he pounced. That .44 slug dropped him practically in mid-air. The next morning, old man and I drove up to the Fish and Game office to let them know what happened, an officer followed us back to camp took a look at it all said "Good Shoot" and hauled it off.

Another time I showed up to a friends place in the foothills at night and right as I got out of the truck I heard that distinct yowl they make and I hightailed it the 10 yard into the house.

 

[Torian]

Sounds like a smooth draw and a nice shot. I bet you never go for a walk in the woods unarmed now.

 

[lemaymiami]

Where I am in Florida they're considered to be quite rare and I've gone years and years without seeing one in the Everglades, where I work full time as a fishing guide.... That's with one exception (and I still can't be sure what I saw was a panther -nothing but a mountain lion that lives in the swamps...). It was right at very first light and I was towing my skiff down the only road in the Park (the road to Flamingo) when I saw a light brown/tan critter cross the road almost 1/4 mile ahead at a dead run. Like I said, can't be sure it was a panther, but the coloration and dimensions were right. Bobcats on the other hand are fairly common where I am and I've actually gotten close to one or two that were swimming from one island to another (something I didn't think cats like to do....).

Unlike folks out west that go on foot in places where the cats hunt, in my area we're usually in boats so they're certain to hear us coming a long way off. Dont' think I lke the idea of walking quietly in places where cats might be hunting...

 

[HoosierQ]

Mountain lions are not like bears. You're never going to get the warning. At least with bears, most attacks are "assaults" by the bear on a person they fear is coming to close to cubs, or otherwise a threat. A relatively small number of bear attacks are attempts at predation. So with bears most of the time you get the warning grunts and woofs and whatnot...time enough presumably to either run away or prepare to defend one's self.

Mountain lions don't behave that way. They give no warning. They are ambush predators...like crocodiles. By the time you see it (the only time you'd see it presumably) it would have you.

However, if you were armed and not alone, presumably you'd be in a position to assist your fellows if one of them were attacked.

I guess I am saying if I were in lion or bear country I'd be armed if I had that choice but I'd be pretty skeptical of my ability to use the weapon effectively I think. Given that I am way more likely to be struck by lighting than be attacked by these animals, my odds remain pretty good.

 

[sixgunner455]

Yep, that us out here in the west ... quietly walking along in another predator's space, hunting his primary food source.

I buy a lion tag every year, but I only ever see scat and prints. Same with bear tags.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I have had the privilege of seeing 3 of these magnificent creatures in the wild. All were in Alabama and spanned 20 years and 2 different (but adjacent) counties. The sheer size and grace of motion they each had was fascinating.

 

[mljdeckard]

Mountain lions have hit an evolutionary snap. They USED to be deterred by anything at all man-made. Trails, power poles, fences, they wouldn't get close to ANY of it. Their territories are so big, it was just about impossible for them to exist. This is no longer the case. They have bounced back in their population and they are probably going to stay this way. They still aren't trilled about it, but they won't completely leave a territory because of it either.

I read an article about a professional hunter who runs dogs to track them. They get them treed, then he shoots them with a Kimber .45. However, this isn't the same thing as hitting one while you are being attacked. I honestly think that if you are going to get attacked by one, the vast majority of the time you won't have time to draw.

BTW, I've seen two. One a long ways off in southern Utah on a mountain pass, and the other ran across the road in front of me dragging a deer in Diamond Fork Canyon in central Utah in about 1995.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I grew-up in the foothills just west of Boulder, CO. My parents had been in the house since the middle 60's, but it was not until the late 80's that the cat population really increased. Interactions with mountain lions became an almost daily occurrence, with multiple sightings per year. Taking the dog out for a bedtime bathroom break involved equipping for a small safari every night. During a solo hike, my Dad had to discharge his Ruger Police Service-Six into a tree above the head of a stalking cat to scare him away. I now know more about mountain lion hunting behavior than most wildlife experts.

 

[mr.trooper]

Depends on how quickly you realize what is happening to you. It is entirely possible that you may live for a few terrifying moments before it is too late - ANY shot in ANY direction may be enough to startle the cat.

If you have no shame, try what the Brits and Indians did for tiger - put a face mask on the back of your head to confuse the animal.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Mountain lions have adapted and their populations now pretty much live on the edges of most western cities. When I lived in Vegas mountain lions were found several miles deep into the city. They were pretty much living there. There food sources were pets. I took in a stray house cat while I was living there and when I watched nature shows she would ignore all the big cat cries except mountain lions, that always got her attention.

 

[silicosys4]

Depends on how quickly you realize what is happening to you. It is entirely possible that you may live for a few terrifying moments before it is too late - ANY shot in ANY direction may be enough to startle the cat.

If you have no shame, try what the Brits and Indians did for tiger - put a face mask on the back of your head to confuse the animal.

I live in the heart of cougar country, and that's a little over the top. There have been 19 people killed by cougars in the past 120 years. 3 of them were adult males. Not one of them "was slow on the draw" before being killed. The majority of cougar fatalities are children, or mothers defending their children who were the original target of the attack.
They can be dangerous, deadly even, and encounters are on the rise, for sure so one should be aware,
but I always get a kick out of the people who come out here and shiver in fear at the thought of bear and cougar, won't leave their vehicle let alone go out on a trail, and stare at the woods with fear and apprehension.

I hike and hunt here constantly, born and raised in the woods. I don't give cougar a second thought and don't expect to ever have to deal with one personally, and other than the 3 people I've already mentioned, don't know anybody who does.
3 adult male deaths in 100+ years does not inspire me to panic,
I'd be wiser to spend my time worrying about how to avoid being struck by lightning.

That said our neighbor found the carcass of his 90lb german sheperd 12 feet up in a tree half eaten last month,
so I am starting to think more about them, might go so far as to do some varmint hunting this summer if that kind of thing continues.

If I do, I'll probably try and call them into .223 range.

 

[icanthitabarn]

Anything that can catch and kill a deer sounds like too quick to me. ....

 

[RJTravel]

I think lions are becoming more and more common. Many years ago (50s and 60s) we got a $25 bounty for a lion in Idaho - mostly the Selway-Bitterroot / Clearwater areas for me. Lotta money back then. My friend hunted them for a living - not uncommon to shoot 6 or 7 in a weekend. Approx early 70s they became a game animal (along with bear which previously were varmints and required no tag) and became scarce. Today they seem to be prevalent once again. Recently had a lengthy stare-down with full-grown lion at approx 35 yards. Glad he decided to leave - I was unarmed. In respect to time to react: I've always had time to get off a shot or two. The real prob is hitting anything with a snap-shot even at 10 yards or less. Almost always you will overshoot.