earlthegoat2
Member
I do my reloading on one of these benches.
Mounting a press?
- Thread starter Axis II
- Start date
- Status
GE-Mini-Gun
Member
Everyone I've built is the same material...1/2" thick top (plywood), 2x4 framing and 2x6 on the front. Presses are secured with 7/16 bolt, nuts and washers...1/8" flat steel bar running between mounting locations (holes) to distribute the load over a wider area. I've crushed more brass and shotgun hulls than I can count and have broken parts of the presses in the process...NEVER has the press came loose.
LiveLife
Member
earl, that's awesome.
But OP has a bench made out of 2x4s and has flex problem with 1" MDF top and hardwood 1x6 and wants to "remount" to make it "rock solid" with consideration for mounting two 2x6 under the Lee Classic Turret press.
While 1x6 hardwood "brace" seems like a good idea, you are essentially fastening the 1x6 to "soft cardboard" and you would end up with similar outcome with 2x6 unless they were fastened to 2x4 frame members. IME, 1x6 hardwood would likely flex under LCT load (especially with longer span) but kiln dried/seasoned 2x4/2x6 douglas fir would provide much greater rigidity (provided 2x4/2x6 was fastened to frame) and plywood/OSB fastened to 2x4 frame should give you the "rock solid" bench top you desire.
I used to think like many others and had my presses mounted on 2'x6' and 2'x8' heavy benches in the garage (built with 4x4 legs and nuts/bolts) with heavy duty casters sufficient to support weight of engine blocks. When I wanted to reload indoors with the need to resize military .308 cases, I tested different bench sizes/materials and found 2'x3' built out of kiln dried/seasoned 2x4s and plywood/OSB tops with presses mounted at the ends was sufficient to resize without moving the bench or flexing the top.
I added pegboard to provide additional stiffness but found it not necessary.
But OP has a bench made out of 2x4s and has flex problem with 1" MDF top and hardwood 1x6 and wants to "remount" to make it "rock solid" with consideration for mounting two 2x6 under the Lee Classic Turret press.
ohihunter, as others already pointed out, MDF (regardless of thickness) is your weakest link. 1" thick MDF is like a stack of cardboard as it lacks cross-directional strength of multi-layer plywood or OSB. And plywood/OSB with 1x6 hardwood board may not be sufficient to provide stiffness you need for LCT, especially resizing bottle-neck rifle cases.
While 1x6 hardwood "brace" seems like a good idea, you are essentially fastening the 1x6 to "soft cardboard" and you would end up with similar outcome with 2x6 unless they were fastened to 2x4 frame members. IME, 1x6 hardwood would likely flex under LCT load (especially with longer span) but kiln dried/seasoned 2x4/2x6 douglas fir would provide much greater rigidity (provided 2x4/2x6 was fastened to frame) and plywood/OSB fastened to 2x4 frame should give you the "rock solid" bench top you desire.
I used to think like many others and had my presses mounted on 2'x6' and 2'x8' heavy benches in the garage (built with 4x4 legs and nuts/bolts) with heavy duty casters sufficient to support weight of engine blocks. When I wanted to reload indoors with the need to resize military .308 cases, I tested different bench sizes/materials and found 2'x3' built out of kiln dried/seasoned 2x4s and plywood/OSB tops with presses mounted at the ends was sufficient to resize without moving the bench or flexing the top.
I added pegboard to provide additional stiffness but found it not necessary.
Last edited:
rfwobbly
Member
This brings to mind the old adage,"A chain is only as strong as its weakest link." As a Mechanical Engineer I'm laughing at some of the replies here suggesting a single item solution. "Stiffness" is achieved from a well designed "system". A stiff benchtop won't do anything, if your joists are flimsy. Stiff joists won't do anything if your bench legs are flimsy. Stiff bench legs won't do anything if standing on foam or cork flooring. This is what BDS is getting at.
Here's a system checklist you can consider...
• George P had it right. The first step is to get your press away from the edge of the benchtop by using an elevated press mount. Both Dillon and Inline Fabrication make these. Simply allowing a larger "footprint" disperses the load over a much greater area, versus the highly concentrated load of edge mounting.
• Your benchtop needs to be thicker than you thought! I like a 24" deep reloading bench because it allows doubling the thickness when made from a standard 4x8' sheet of plywood. Additionally, I find the extra bench weight to be helpful during the op lever up-stroke. (Most solutions presented only address the down-stroke.)
• 2x4's make effective joists when turned on edge, but there needs to be more than a simple perimeter. Consider turning the underside of the bench into a series of small "boxes".
• Your press needs to be located directly over a stout bench leg, which in turn should be standing on a concrete floor. I find 4x6" landscaping timbers to be an inexpensive way to achieve this.
• Finally, the entire bench needs to be fastened to every stud inside the wall, which the bench backs up to. Preventing side-to-side movement is just as important as preventing up-and-down in the search for "stiffness".
Hope this helps.
Here's a system checklist you can consider...
• George P had it right. The first step is to get your press away from the edge of the benchtop by using an elevated press mount. Both Dillon and Inline Fabrication make these. Simply allowing a larger "footprint" disperses the load over a much greater area, versus the highly concentrated load of edge mounting.
• Your benchtop needs to be thicker than you thought! I like a 24" deep reloading bench because it allows doubling the thickness when made from a standard 4x8' sheet of plywood. Additionally, I find the extra bench weight to be helpful during the op lever up-stroke. (Most solutions presented only address the down-stroke.)
• 2x4's make effective joists when turned on edge, but there needs to be more than a simple perimeter. Consider turning the underside of the bench into a series of small "boxes".
• Your press needs to be located directly over a stout bench leg, which in turn should be standing on a concrete floor. I find 4x6" landscaping timbers to be an inexpensive way to achieve this.
• Finally, the entire bench needs to be fastened to every stud inside the wall, which the bench backs up to. Preventing side-to-side movement is just as important as preventing up-and-down in the search for "stiffness".
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
LiveLife
Member
I agree.
Using 2x4 brace under the press fastened to 2x4 frame members disperse the load over the entire bench.
By mounting the presses at the ends of 2'x3' bench, you effectively increase the depth to 3' instead of 2' using the weight of the bench to your leverage/advantage. As to up-stroke, in reality the bench will be weighed down with reloading components and supplies (I have about 200-300+ pounds of bullets, brass, powder, etc. along with dies/tools on the bench) and no issues with priming up-stroke with Auto Breech Lock Pro.
Funny you mentioned that as that's what I was thinking as I mounted the C-H single stage press and if you notice in the picture below, it is mounted on the right side corner of the bench.
Well, my bench legs are securely fastened to Harbor Freight furniture moving dolly casters yet due to presses mounted at the ends of the bench with weight/leverage advantage, I can resize military .308 cases (without bench top flex) and progressively reload on Auto Breech Lock Pro even with weight of empty bench.
Absolutely. The 2'x3' bench is two box frame reinforced into 2 smaller box frame joined at corners with 2x4s with additional stiffness coming from mid-shelf 2x4 box frame with additional stiffness provided by pegboard fastened to back of bench.
With top and bottom frame "boxes" screwed to 11 layer plywood top every 6 inches with construction screws, the bench acts like a rigid cube.
Last edited:
earlthegoat2
Member
My benches pictures above are overkill for reloading. No doubt. The steel one with toolboxes weighs over 1000 lbs with everything in it.
The other one is a woodworking bench primarily and it is slightly light for that. My other woodworking bench can be seen in this picture to the left.
I show these as examples of the heavy duty nature that a bench can be built with only a marginal increased cost. The bench pictured here cost about 30 dollars (not including the vises) by buying reclaimed timbers from a house demolition. Had to pull a few nails but that’s what you pay for. There is not one single nail or screw used for the primary structural construction.
If I were to build a bench for reloading only I would probably use the best 3/4 inch plywood I could find and rip it in two and glue it together for a double thickness top. Then use 4x4s or 6x6s for the legs and only 2x6s everywhere else. I would dado the 2x6s into the legs but I understand some folks cannot do that. In lieu of that I would only use 3/8 lag screws for fasteners not deck screws or framing nails for the frame of the bench. Normal screws can be used for securing the top down. There would be a bottom shelf and the bottom stringers would be just far enough off the ground where I could tuck my toes under it for added bodily stability while working the press. My woodworking benches have this feature and it is nicer than one would realize.
The other one is a woodworking bench primarily and it is slightly light for that. My other woodworking bench can be seen in this picture to the left.
I show these as examples of the heavy duty nature that a bench can be built with only a marginal increased cost. The bench pictured here cost about 30 dollars (not including the vises) by buying reclaimed timbers from a house demolition. Had to pull a few nails but that’s what you pay for. There is not one single nail or screw used for the primary structural construction.
If I were to build a bench for reloading only I would probably use the best 3/4 inch plywood I could find and rip it in two and glue it together for a double thickness top. Then use 4x4s or 6x6s for the legs and only 2x6s everywhere else. I would dado the 2x6s into the legs but I understand some folks cannot do that. In lieu of that I would only use 3/8 lag screws for fasteners not deck screws or framing nails for the frame of the bench. Normal screws can be used for securing the top down. There would be a bottom shelf and the bottom stringers would be just far enough off the ground where I could tuck my toes under it for added bodily stability while working the press. My woodworking benches have this feature and it is nicer than one would realize.
LiveLife
Member
I did the plans for portable castered 2'x3' bench for reloaders who need to reload indoors with limited space. Benefits of smaller portable reloading bench is the option of rolling the bench into a corner or closet for storage, not to mention being able to reload in the comforts of heat/AC and be closer to family.
Are there benefits to massive heavy timber benches? You bet.
Can you reload on a small portable bench? Been doing it and loading all of my THR myth busting test rounds on it for about 10 years now, including sizing thicker walled military .308 cases. As I previously posted, to obtain .001" OAL variance (with pre-resized brass, .003" with mixed range brass) requires press movement consistency and zero flex of bench top as outlined in this myth busting thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806
As Eugen and rfwobbly posted, you CAN build bench that is stiff enough to not flex the bench top if bench is designed and constructed properly even though bench size is smaller like 2'x3' using lighter dimensional 2x4 lumber with sufficient "stiffers/bracing".
The 2'x3' bench was moved in 2014 on a 14 hour moving truck ride loaded with over 1400 lbs of reloading gear/components and during the truck ride, one of the moving dolly casters broke (Likely from one of many huge potholes on CA's less maintained highways) but nails/construction screws used held together so well that bench is solid as the day it was constructed.
Are there benefits to massive heavy timber benches? You bet.
Can you reload on a small portable bench? Been doing it and loading all of my THR myth busting test rounds on it for about 10 years now, including sizing thicker walled military .308 cases. As I previously posted, to obtain .001" OAL variance (with pre-resized brass, .003" with mixed range brass) requires press movement consistency and zero flex of bench top as outlined in this myth busting thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806
As Eugen and rfwobbly posted, you CAN build bench that is stiff enough to not flex the bench top if bench is designed and constructed properly even though bench size is smaller like 2'x3' using lighter dimensional 2x4 lumber with sufficient "stiffers/bracing".
The 2'x3' bench was moved in 2014 on a 14 hour moving truck ride loaded with over 1400 lbs of reloading gear/components and during the truck ride, one of the moving dolly casters broke (Likely from one of many huge potholes on CA's less maintained highways) but nails/construction screws used held together so well that bench is solid as the day it was constructed.
Last edited:
Caution:
Any confession to using "drywall screws" for bench construction could start a flaming war by the purists with horror stories about the weakness of the "drywall screws" of the past.
Edit it to read "construction screws"...
Probably the only thing that will save you here is the "street cred" you have established
I'm in the proper design/glue and screw camp here, rather than bulk/mds/over engineered/flexy build.
Hell, for portable less than $40 will get you this from HF, with a minimum of fab:
sorry for the drift,
LiveLife
Member
Point taken, OK changed to "Construction screws" on my previous posts.
And that's why I used both 10d nails and "construction screws" so screws would apply compression while nails provided additional hold/secondary hold if screws snapped. I even tested "construction adhesives" like Liquid Nail and corner plywood/OSB triangle bracing (Learned that from my NASA contract welding instructor) on earlier portable benches and while they enhanced fastening of frame members, I worked to improve the bench design to the point where additional use of adhesive and corner bracing were not necessary. And reason why I used kiln dried and dry seasoned 2x4s instead of wet/green 2x4s.
In the past 10 years, I probably put the 2'x3' bench through more movement, impact and shock than most reloaders would during their lifetime. The 14 hour moving truck ride with 1400 pounds of gear/components was probably the ultimate test of construction as obviously bench shifted, jerked, moved and vibrated to the point of damaging many other items in the truck box. BTW, even with all that weight, the bench rolled quite well over different surfaces (After one damaged caster was replaced).
Now that I am restoring/modifying two Starcraft 18' outboard and 21' jet aluminum boats, I have been warming my wife to get me a combo Tig welder so I can fabricate twin outboard/kicker mount decks so perhaps I can Tig weld aluminum reloading benches after retirement (Of course with casters).
Last edited:
rfwobbly
Member
Yes, but you're talking about very specific workbench designs, both engineered and constructed by a knowledgeable and experienced bench builder. And then, seem to be taking that experience and making a blanket statement for everyone's instruction.
While I am a big fan of your posts here, blanket statements rarely work. I believe the use of screws and adhesives can add a lot to bench building when used in the correct size, length and location. IOW, every application should be taken on an individual case-by-case basis.
For example, IMHO adhesives add a lot when screwing together a multi-layer bench top. On the other hand, there are no fasteners or adhesive holding the three 4x6 legs under my current stationary bench. Mere weight holds them firmly in place.
DM~
Member
I guess it depends on what press? And, what bench!
I like the CO-AX because it can be mounted "in" the bench, (turned toward me) instead of on the edge of the bench...
And my bench has NO fasteners in it, and it doesn't flex one bit!
DM
I like the CO-AX because it can be mounted "in" the bench, (turned toward me) instead of on the edge of the bench...
And my bench has NO fasteners in it, and it doesn't flex one bit!
DM
LiveLife
Member
DM, Yes, LOL! How could we forget your "epitome" of massive leg bench and "garage door header" bench top.
Good point. My earlier bench designs did need the extra help. And using wet "green" 2x4s instead of kiln dried or dry seasoned 2x4s will also reduce bench stiffness until wood dried.
OK, revised my blanket statement to "I even tested 'construction adhesives' like Liquid Nail and corner plywood/OSB triangle bracing (Learned that from my NASA contract welding instructor) on earlier portable benches and while they enhanced fastening of frame members, I worked to improve the bench design to the point where additional use of adhesive and corner bracing were not necessary. And reason why I used kiln dried and dry seasoned 2x4s instead of wet/green 2x4s."
Last edited:
earlthegoat2
Member
bds and I are both preaching very specific designs at opposite ends of the spectrum.
As a side job professional woodworker (cabinet maker, furniture maker, finish carpenter), it is quite amazing what can be done with the tiniest amount of material. As can be seen, when push comes to shove, I would rather weld mine up with heavy steel rather than fit huge timbers together with joinery.
As a side job professional woodworker (cabinet maker, furniture maker, finish carpenter), it is quite amazing what can be done with the tiniest amount of material. As can be seen, when push comes to shove, I would rather weld mine up with heavy steel rather than fit huge timbers together with joinery.
forty_caliber
Member
There are some pretty good ideas in this thread. Post 1528 shows/explains my bench setup.
What clever little things have you "invented or discovered" that you can share?
I agree with the suggestions of getting an Inline Fabrication mount for your press. Makes a huge difference in stability and comfort.
.40
What clever little things have you "invented or discovered" that you can share?
I agree with the suggestions of getting an Inline Fabrication mount for your press. Makes a huge difference in stability and comfort.
.40
I've seen many posts about the Inline Fab working because the press ends up well behind the bench edge.
I have not ever seen anyone build a recess/jog into a bench to get a press off the bench edge, has anyone done this?
I have built simple boxes out of 2x6/2x8 (glued/screwed/about $5) as risers that are a wooden version of a Inline Fab that gets the press off of the bench edge.
There's a pic of a similar one but designs can be quite different only limited by your imagination/materials at hand (or google search)
:https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/mounting-a-press.848607/page-2#post-11072554
I often mock-up designs in wood and sometimes keep them wood as they work as well as a steel version.
There are many things sold that are welded/metal construction that can be cheaply cloned out of wood, as most people own wood working tools, but not welders.
Sadly not many can envision a wooden version and just buy what's available, like the Inline Fab mount that's $80+/-.
A good example of this is the few wooden framed rotary tumblers in the "things you have made" threads.
So thinking out of the box...and building a box could be the answer to a rigid press mount.
Last edited:
deadeye dick
Member
To mount my press I use "T" nuts. They are the nuts you imbed under the bench. I just set the press where you want it and drill the holes. insert the T nuts from the bottom. I use 5/16 bolts of the proper length. Can be removed quickly.
Obturation
Member
I used elevator bolts counter sunk through pine boards into a metal table then put a bunch of wood glue and a sheet of 3/4 oak ply wood over it and screwed it all together. Just bolted the press through all 3 layers, zero flex. I size cast bullets on that press too, nothing moves.
Offfhand
Member.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,442
Over my XX years of building and using a variety of loading benches and bench materials, the best by far has been pre-formed laminated counter tops. They are tremendously rigid and impervious to about everything, easy to clean and install and come in an endless variety of lengths and colors. The integral back panel is also a plus. Check out what is available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc, and sometimes they have great prices on odd ends, closeouts, etc. I have installed them on all my shop work benches and they are also excellent for mounting other tools and equipment. Think out of the box. Here is one of my my home loading benches, and the loading bench installed in my motor coach.
Rembrandt
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2003
- Messages
- 4,657
Tilos said:
There's probably a hundred different ways to get the press off the edge of a bench. I went with somewhat of a cantilever approach. Due to height issues a Dillon strong mount wouldn't work, but it allows the press to hang out over the edge far enough for the swing arm to clear. As the old saying goes...."necessity is the Mother of invention".
Nice
Yes, whatever works.
A Press' footprint is designed around fitting in a shipping box, not reloading, and often the bolts are not very far back from the edge of the bench/press.
I buy $4 6"x6"x1/4" steel plates with a standard bolt pattern and bolt one under each press as an adaptor plate, kitty-cornered (Katy-cornered?) to get the bolts back from the bench edge.
So only 3 bolts/studs in the bench top:
works for me,
tcoz
Member
Keep your current bench as is and mount your LCT on a Lee Reloading (tripod) stand for about $100. The thing is solid as a rock and will also free up some bench space.
- Status
