Moving to alaska - .375 H&H recoil question, kimber talkeetna

[Narwhal]

Hello,

I recently obtained a new job in Anchorage and will be there for at least a few years. I could see myself trying a hunt of some kind if I can coordinate something with my coworkers. What kind? I don't know, moose, caribou, etc perhaps.....and we all know what else lives in alaska.

Anyhow, I am coming from the southern US.

The first long gun I ever purchased when I was 25 y/o was a remington 870 express with an 18" barrel that weighed about 7 pounds. None of the ranges alowed bird/buck so I shot i with a lot of slugs, some 3" brennekes 600 gr @ 1500 fps too. I learned quickly not to shoot this from the bench, but it often felt like a punch to the face if I tried a few dozen magnum slugs in that 6.5 pound pump gun. I walked away with cheek and shoulder bruises the first few times.

My quesion: How would a kimber talkeetna .375 h&h compare to shooting that 6.5 pound 870 with 3" slugs? If it's no worse than that, I think I can deal with it. Kimber says the talkeetna weighs 7.5 pounds, so probably 9 pounds with a scope.

My current gun for the south is a remington 700 LTR in .308. It does not kick at all especially considering I usually shoot it suppressed. I have considered something like a .300 win mag instead of the .375 but it seem too close to the .308 I already have. I have a few thousand rounds through that .308 and have shot it out to 1100 yards in a long range class so I have good dope for it. It is about a 1 MOA rifle. I'm just afraid that a hunting guide would not be pleased if I showed up in AK with a .308.

I realize that recoil isn't a big deal on a hunting rifle, but I don't like buying guns that are unpleasant to shoot.....if I don't like shooting it I feel like I wont practice enough to be proficient. I'm going to guess the 7 pound 870 with 3" black magic slugs was at least 40 ft pounds of recoil energy, the H&H would be about 35 ft-lbs?

 

[adcoch1]

The slugs probably kick more, and the stock on the kimber should fit you better than a cheap 870 stock. Get a good buttpad and have fun with the kimber. I would love to have one but I'll probably go cz for my rifle. And I'm in Washington, not even Alaska.

 

[DannyLandrum]

My .375 HH mag kicks the crap out of me - 10 rounds and I've had it. Really one round. I'd find a .338-06, .35 Whelen, 9.3x62, or .338 Win mag, roughly in preference order. Or even .338 Federal.

 

[caribou]

The .308 is just fine, here in AK. Place your bullet and it'll do the rest.

Others like 300 Winmag, .375H&H, but they dont kill anything deader or deader ,quicker. Ive seen plenty.

30-06 is the do all here, and with the .308 doing as well, I use a 7.62x54r on most of my big game.

Recoil is a factor when it effects your body or shot taking.......so practise when you get here and use the .308 untill your ''other/bigger' rifle is as tamed in use and instinctive as the .308. Nothing wrong with a spare rifle and one thats your ''go gun''.

Is there a difference in recoil with a 1-3/4 ounce slug or a 1-3/4 ounce of shot?

When I pull the trigger on my 54R,I barely notice the recoil or the blast. Like your .308, I can usually place the shot, close or at distance, so its the one I preferr.

 

[RecoilRob]

The key here to me is the recoil pad. My Ruger #1 came with a hard red rubber 'pad' and I could fire about 6-8 shots (of course in 375 H&H) and my shoulder was crying foul. It wasn't that the rifle kicked so hard it was just that 'pad' was really abusive on the body....so I installed a Kickeez prefit pad https://kickeezproducts.com/pre-fit-recoil-pads/ and it's a pussycat now. The Kimber should be just fine if the pad does what it's supposed to do for you.

 

[eastbank]

i own and shoot two .375 H&H mag,s, a Remington 700 and a CZ-550. I used a .375 H&H mag on five hunting trips to Africa and never felt the recoil when shooting at game. but the animals hunted in Africa are mostly shot at close ranges , under a hundred yards. I would opt for a medium weight .338 mag for my self if hunting in Alaska.

 

[jmr40]

A 375 with typical loads will generate about 42 ft lbs recoil from an 8 lb rifle, I've never figured it from 6 lb rifle, but would guess it near 50 ft lbs. A 1 oz slug at 1500 fps has about 30 ft lbs recoil from a 7 lb shotgun.

Somewhere out there is a study done by the Alaska F&G dept. concerning their recommendations for large bear protection. Their recommendation for the vast majority was a 30-06 loaded with either 200 or 220 gr bullets. The Nosler Partition in particular. I could look up the link, but don't have time right now. In summary they found that magnum rounds 375 and up gave the deepest penetration on large bear, but either the 30-06 or 300 magnum tied when loaded heavy and came in 2nd place. And were not too far behind 375. The 30 calibers BEAT 338 WM, 35 Whelen, 45-70, 444, 12 ga slugs, and everything else tested in penetration. FWIW Finn Aagard, a noted African guide and gun writer did extensive testing and concluded that either 30-06, 300 WM or 308 when loaded with heavy bullets out performed everything over 30 caliber,and under 375. He came to the same conclusion as Alaska F&G. The 375 was slightly better in their testing, but when recoil, cost, and other factors were considered they felt most hunters would be better served with a 30-06.

There is only one animal in Alaska that needs 375, brown bear. And they are in limited numbers in specific locations. Unless you plan to spend time along the SE coast there would be no need. If you were a guide and wanted a gun to back up hunters then a 375 would make sense.

 

[cdb1]

I can’t compare the recoil between a 870 shooting slugs and a Talkeetna. Everyone’s recoil tolerance is different and there is no way I would own a 7.5 lb .375 H&H.

 

[Robert]

I can't speak for the Kimber, but my Winchester Safari Express is pleasant to shoot. But mine is a bit heavier than the Kimber. 375 H&H recoil is different from the mondern magnums in that it is more of a big shove and less of a hard kick. Does it kick, you bet, but nearly as bad as people believe. I've shot light weight 30-06 mountain rifles that kick way harder than my 375. Though mine is a 9-10 lbs gun.

 

[edwardware]

Full disclosure: I'm still working on technique for my M70 .375 H&H. That said, within a couple range sessions I acclimated to the recoil, and it's not uncomfortable from the bench.

Stock fit is important, and position even more so. The first session with a tall stool was brutal; a shorter stool was a 90% reduction in felt recoil.

From a standing position it's quite manageable with a good shoulder pocket contact. I'll take it over my friend's plastic-stocked 300 WinMag any day.

 

[eastbank]

did they test the same type of bullet construction in the 35 whelen,338 mag as the 3006,300 win mag?

 

[Grumulkin]

My quesion: How would a kimber talkeetna .375 h&h compare to shooting that 6.5 pound 870 with 3" slugs? If it's no worse than that, I think I can deal with it. Kimber says the talkeetna weighs 7.5 pounds, so probably 9 pounds with a scope.

The 375 H&H Magnum will be no worse and probably a little better than the 870 with slugs.

 

[highlander 5]

I got a chance to fire a 375 H&H ia a Ruger No 1 and admit firing multiple rounds from it wouldn't be fun the recoil pad left a great deal to be desired. 375 out of a 7 lb rifle no thanks. If it were me I'd go with a rifle designed for the 375 Win model 70,Ruger M 77,No 1 or similar,something with weight and a decent recoil pad.

 

[CraigC]

The .375 rifle will be a lot more pleasant to shoot than a 12ga with slugs. My .416 is more pleasant.

Somewhere out there is a study done by the Alaska F&G dept. concerning their recommendations for large bear protection. Their recommendation for the vast majority was a 30-06 loaded with either 200 or 220 gr bullets. The Nosler Partition in particular. I could look up the link, but don't have time right now. In summary they found that magnum rounds 375 and up gave the deepest penetration on large bear, but either the 30-06 or 300 magnum tied when loaded heavy and came in 2nd place. And were not too far behind 375. The 30 calibers BEAT 338 WM, 35 Whelen, 45-70, 444, 12 ga slugs, and everything else tested in penetration. FWIW Finn Aagard, a noted African guide and gun writer did extensive testing and concluded that either 30-06, 300 WM or 308 when loaded with heavy bullets out performed everything over 30 caliber,and under 375. He came to the same conclusion as Alaska F&G. The 375 was slightly better in their testing, but when recoil, cost, and other factors were considered they felt most hunters would be better served with a 30-06.

That study is outdated and wasn't even worth much 30yrs ago. They tested crap bullets and Foster slugs. Today, it's less than worthless. If that's the source of your .45-70 prejudice, you need a new bible.

 

[Gordon]

In a well fit gun a .375 H&H feels like a 12 gauge duck gun. Of course with your .308 and your 12 gauge 870 you have all the bases covered allready .

 

[BSA1]

Well I have shot the .375 along with other big bores mainly for bragging rights.

Shooting big bores is one thing. Reliably putting the rounds in the kill zone in real world conditions is another.

I think a guide would be more impressed with a hunter showing up with a 30-30 dang I mean 30-06 or 300 Win. Mag. that shows use from lots of practice on the range and previous hunting trips.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I am in no way disparaging Caribou’s advice and opinion above. And with that being said, I don’t even notice a .375 H&H when it goes off. I’ve shot so many thousands of rounds of .375 H&H in my life that I am totally used to it. I will say though that I find a similar weight .338 WM to be a bit sharper in recoil than an H&H.

If I was in Caribou’s shoes (hey that rimes!) I’d be shooting exactly what he is shooting, something with just enough power and penetration that is cheap and easily available. The .375 on game is kind of hard to explain to somebody who hasn’t shot a lot of stuff with a .30 cal and a .375. I’ve said it plenty in that past and will now say it again. The .375 gives you an edge in shot placement on big critters. I know that it’s going to get through anything in the way of bones, gristle, muscle etc and penetrate to the goods from any angle on any animal. It provides me with a sense of proven confidence and sure kill ability that a .30 doesn’t have.

There are shots that I’ll take with a .375 that I simply won’t take with a .30. That being said a gut shot critter isn’t going to die any quicker than with a .375 than it will with a .30 cal you still have to get a bullet into the vitals. The difference being I’ve shot lots of departing critters through the on hip and had that big reliable penetrating .375 makes it all the way through the critter and either exits the off shoulder or winds up under the skin of the off shoulder. That’s on big critters like elk, moose, Cape buffalo etc.

There is a reason that a whole bunch of DG guides carry a .375. That being said a good .30 cal bullet is not too far behind and I’d not be bothered in the slightest carrying a .308 or an 06 or .300 mag with good bullets anywhere in AK or the world for that matter. I just have supreme confidence and a lot of history with the .375 H&H. And if I was volume shooting like Caribou does up in the remote parts of AK I’d be using the cheapest suitable mil surp stuff I could just like he does. An H&H would be an expensive un needed pain in the butt to feed for his application. If I was was doing the exact same job in the bush of Africa it’d be a .375 all day every day for me.

 

[Robert]

Shooting big bores is one thing. Reliably putting the rounds in the kill zone in real world conditions is another.

375 is medium bore. And it is rather easy to become proficient with the 375 at any reasonable range under field conditions. H&Hhunter and I have proved that, in a damn hurricane to boot.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Well I have shot the .375 along with other big bores mainly for bragging rights.

Shooting big bores is one thing. Reliably putting the rounds in the kill zone in real world conditions is another.

I think a guide would be more impressed with a hunter showing up with a 30-30 or 300 Win. Mag. that shows use from lots of practice on the range and previous hunting trips.

I hear this a lot. In Africa replace .300 WM with .375H&H and it’s a ditto. With my .375 H&H I shoot sub MOA groups out to and including 500 yards with boring regularity. I shoot sub MOA groups with a medium bore .40 cal rifle too. In fact I shoot 2 to 4 MOA groups with a big bore .45 cal and up with iron sights sights at 100 yards without to much drama.

As a guide I am impressed with your rifle handling no matter the bore diameter if you are safe, confident and reasonably accurate say 2 MOA or less off a rest at 100 yards. That is easily obtainable with a medium bore rifle like a .338 or a .375. You’d be surprised how many dudes can’t do that with a small bore rifle off a bench and a solid rest.

Point taken on buying a new rifle and not being proficient with it when you show up for the hunt. That’s just stupid.

 

[Bill1225]

Me personally I find the 375 quite pleasant to shoot for a larger medium bore , yes on paper it has higher ft lbs of recoil energy but compared to other magnums the recoil implies velocity is slower so it's more of larger push with that energy expelled over a longer period of time , then a swift fast kick. Like a 300 weatherby or the super magnums . If you can handle a lite weight slug gun from the bench you will be fine and pleastly surprised , I also think there is more versatile hunting rifles for Alaska then a 375 , I love the 375 but it is more of a specialty rifle for any game in the USA including Alaska . Everyone has in there mind in Alaska they are worried about bear ( yes it goes through my mind too ) but in all reality a 3006, 300 win or a 338 are more versatile and adequate for bear the 3006 and 300 are not ideal but they will do the trick in a pinch( way more energy then 44 mag or 454 etc etc that many carry as bear defense) my personal Alaska rifle is a model 70 338 chopped to 22" McMillan stock and robar coated shooting 250 nosler Partions and I do not have a worry in my mind about its capibilties other then at longer ranges but that comes from the design of my rifle shorter barrel slower muzzle velocity and type of optics I chose a 2-7

 

[BSA1]

375 is medium bore. And it is rather easy to become proficient with the 375 at any reasonable range under field conditions. H&Hhunter and I have proved that, in a damn hurricane to boot.

True but in my part of the world there isn't a real need for it.

Beside I don't mess with puny medium bores. My choice is the 45-70 and for a real big bore try 50-500 loaded with a caseful of real gunpowder.

 

[Narwhal]

Thanks for all replies.

If the talkeetna is a little too light at 7.5 pound unscoped, are there any other synthetic stock - stainless barrel/action .375's? The Montana Rifle Co. Extreme Vantage V2 is the other one I was looking at, but it seems to have long/unknown order/wait times. It would weigh closer to 9 pounds I think.

 

[CraigC]

...( way more energy then 44 mag or 454 etc etc that many carry as bear defense)...

Energy places too much importance on velocity and is not a proper gauge of a cartridge's effectiveness. I've killed critters a lot bigger than bears with the.44 that I would never even attempt with a .30cal rifle.

 

[illinoisburt]

...
Is there a difference in recoil with a 1-3/4 ounce slug or a 1-3/4 ounce of shot?.

There is a big difference between slugs and field loads. 1-1/4 ounce slugs are pushed at 1600 to 1700 fps, while most shotshells are similar weight payloads around 1250 fps. The exception is turkey loads which will equal or exceed a slug.

To your point, too many people discount the power of the old 30 caliber rifle rounds like 308/30-06/7.62x54r/303. With stout heavy bullets they can take about any north american game animal.

 

[caribou]

H&H Hunter said it right, you need to use the gun you have confidence in.

If you really want to shoot like an 'Alaskan', you best pick up a .223 to go with your basic rifles.........a gun for every occasion.

Mini-14's are extremely popular and AR's are getting there...... .223 might actually be shot more than all the big bores combined.Something you just 'take along' weather your hunting or not..
Its what I see, all the .223 use, and not whats on the internet, as mentioning that brings out moans comparable to Hillerys campaign on election night......LOL!!

Illinoisburt, I didn't think of 12 gauge field loads, as I stick with the most high powerd shells I can find, and my Auto-5 is set for them.