MSAR bullpup - are they worth the cost?

Status
Not open for further replies.

socalbeachbum

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
526
Location
Laguna California
I found an MSAR bullpup for sale locally, debating if it or an AR-15 pistol would be the better all around tool. The AR I'm looking at is about 30" OAL with Sig arm-brace and 10.5" barrel.

the MSAR is about 26.5" OAL with 16" barrel.

I know the AR platform well. not sure of the accuracy of the MSAR.

anyone?
 
I had the E-4 version and it was nice especially since it took standard AR mags but I would not but the STG556, it does not.
 
As an all-around tool, any bull pup would seem more viable than an AR pistol. They are totally dissimilar in many use cases and so it's like comparing a fish and a bicycle.
But when comparing within the bull pup category, I would put the MSAR pretty far down on the list, choosing a Steyr Aug ahead of that (but not in CA) and the Tavor (with an improved trigger - ask me how I know!) yet further ahead.
OTOH, if you throw the Sig Sauer 556 Classic Swat (e.g.) in the mix, then the 'AR pistol' becomes a lot more interesting.
B
 
Didn't that company go out of business a couple of years ago?


Edit, well they still have a website up.

I have handled one a few years back they looked like pretty nice guns.
 
Didn't that company go out of business a couple of years ago?


Edit, well they still have a website up.

I have handled one a few years back they looked like pretty nice guns.
I got one before the first Obama panic, because I didn't want to pay $3000+ the real AUGs were going for, if you could find one.

Its been reliable and a good shooter, but I've not run but a few hundred rounds through it. Scratched the AUG itch, when it was looking like I might never get the chance otherwise.


I much prefer shoting SBRs to bullpups because the best of the bullpup triggers would be panned on a low end AR no matter how good the rest of the gun was, and magazine changes are cumbersome.

As to are they worth it, you didn't mention an asking price. Compare to what a Steyr AUG USA is running and adjust downward to suit.


But getting the full 16" barrel at an OAL about the same as most SBRs is pretty neat.
 
MSAR made some gun goods, and MSAR made some irreparable ones. I wouldn't touch a 1st generation one (forward assist), and I wouldn't even bother looking at an MSAR unless the price was below $1k. Around 2 years ago, CDNN was blowing out MSARs at $1k, and nowadays a real AUG A3 can be bought for $1600-$1700.

Tony Marfione designed the MSAR rifles to be different than the AUG spec. The end result is a gun that is mostly proprietary. That is to say, Steyr AUG parts and barrels will not fit. Will you be able to get parts in the future? I wouldn't count on it.

There were some questionable manufacturing processes taking place at MSAR Inc. Barrels were honed with one person holding a hand drill in one hand, and the barrel in the other. They completely disregarded the science and reasoning behind the HPT/MPI order. They bought barrels from Green Mountain that were spec'd to have been Magnetic Particle Inspected. Once MSAR received the barrels, they then fired the HPT rounds without inspecting them via MPI afterwards. Tony was quoted as saying something along the lines of "If a barrel can hold up to 3 proof loads, it's good to ship." This is, of course, completely backwards and hopefullyt nobody has a barrel blow up in their face as a result of this nonsense.

MSAR themselves destroyed the market for their guns. They changed the specs, put out lemons, used potentially unsafe proofing methods, screwed over their barrel vendor, then dropped the selling price of their guns from $1600 to $1000 overnight. Next thing you know, MSAR filed for bankruptcy, only to come back with a website later on showing pictures of rifles sitting in racks. "Oh great! MSAR is back!"

Microtech makes awesome knives with horrible customer service. I would stay away from their rifles, unless you want to play with one and the price is well below $1k. I would recommend buying a real Steyr AUG A3 and having something much more sustainable in the long run.
 
I was wondering about the MSAR company myself . . . wouldn't really like to get a rifle where spare parts might be a problem.

I saw and handled one, and it seemed to be made pretty decently. It's been a few years, but IIRC the bolt lever (I think it's called the "cocking slide") had a pinch point between it and the receiver where your fingers would naturally go when manually working the bolt, making for an awkward manual of arms.
 
I dont like buying a modern product made by a company that may disappear in the near future. I learned my lesson buying a PlumCrazy polymer AR lower. A lifetime warranty doesnt mean anything when the company goes under a year after you buy the product....:banghead:
 
I learned my lesson buying a PlumCrazy polymer AR lower.

That's like buying a car from a place called 'Crazy Eddie's'. You really should be surprised to find out that Eddie is actually crazy.

As for the MSAR... I'd pass unless the price was very, very low. Steyr is selling new, warrantied rifle that can be bought for around $1800 and Steyr factory parts are available and easy to get.

BSW
 
I used to own an MSAR aug clone. I never really pushed it hard enough to glean much info. I did get a stuck case using steel cased ammo (the only 5.56 gun I have had do that). Gun was clean and not a lot of rounds had been fired.

At this point I would not buy an MSAR gun unless, as others have said, the price was really low. My reasoning is similar to what others have mentioned. One can get an actual steyr for $1800 or perhaps less. I'd pay a couple hundred more for the real deal any day. The tavor is also a serious competitor in the bullpup market.

If one does not already own an AR, I'd buy one of the magpul furniture Colt 6920s right now that are selling for less than $900.
 
BTW I have not actually even seen an MSAR aug clone since they supposedly came back online after their previous troubles. I wonder if they really are even making and selling them right now or not.
 
BTW I have not actually even seen an MSAR aug clone since they supposedly came back online after their previous troubles. I wonder if they really are even making and selling them right now or not.
I saw one in a store about 8 months ago
 
My MSAR is also a decent performer, reliable, and, as far as I can tell, accurate. It take proprietary and Steyr AUG mags. I got it a few years ago, when the US-made AUG was still vaporware; Were I in the market today, I'd hold out for an AUG or Tavor.
 
Just curious, how many rounds thru yours? Roughly what size groups?

BSW
It's had a few hundred, 3 or 4 roughly. But it's been a while since I last shot it. Didn't keep any targets or records from the last time, so I don't remember how well it grouped, but it did put the rounds where I pointed the muzzle, which was all I asked of it....
 
I have personal experience (several thousand rds worth) w/6 different MSAR STG's from Gen2-Gen4.
One had extraction problems right off the bat and required a trip back to MSAR to fix (afterwards it was completely reliable).
All shared the "tight from factory" syndrome requiring a couple hundred rds of full-power 5.56 before they'd function reliably w/weak steel-cased ammo.
Had a couple of early extractors break (known problem), no problems whatsoever w/the newer extractors.
Also had a couple of bolt sleeves break (also a known AUG trait), again an easy fix.
My best friend and I ran two of my STG's in a weekend carbine class where they functioned 100% through 1,000rds each of Brown Bear steel-cased ammo.
I never measured for group size from the bench w/match-grade ammo, but while sighting-in various RDS' I saw numerous 3/4" groups at 50yds using Prvi Partizan M193. I never had a problem hitting the 300m gong offhand if I did my part.
Dave (who worked at MSAR) said the vast majority of STG's & E4's were gtg, it was the owner's push to produce/sell more rifles that led to the fall in QC and most of the reported reliability problems.
HTH...
Tomac
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top