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muhommad dc sniper

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chapperjoe

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Dec 30, 2003
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If I hear ONE MORE ARTICLE that references the rifle the DC sniper used as LEGAL I am going to ......... I'd better not complete that.

We all know that his LEGAL "high-powered sniper rifle" (don't get me started) was STOLEN. you'd think REPORTERS would mention that!!!!!!!


:banghead: :banghead: :: :banghead: :: :fire: :: :fire: :: :fire: :fire:

I'm sorry, but i saw another one today and these are just falsehoods. They use the DC sniper as their most important proof for their argument that legal guns are dangerous. And when that proof isn't true,they say, "but its still a valid point." NOOOOOOOOOOOO IT ISN'T YOU CLODS..........,
 
Hey, isn't the Bushmaster he had legal for civilians to own?

In that respect, it is indeed legal, right? ;)
 
OF COURSE THE WEAPON IS LEGAL. Which is why crimes committed iwth it are rarely heard of. People who LEGALLY buy them don't do ILLEGAL things with them. it is those that procure weapons ILLEGALY that commit the crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The poitn they want to make is that all crime is committed with legal weapons and so we should makle weapons illegal. All this does is punish us, we who ARE legal and have morals and a conciense and something that was lost a long time ago, patriotism.


(nashing my teeth SOOO hard)
 
Feinstein in her testimony about the gun maker lawsuit bill was trying to imply that the gun shop "let" the AR15 get stolen, possibly for under the table money.

No evidence, mind you, just painting gun dealers as eeevvviiillll.:fire:
 
His gun was illegal in the sense that it was a post-ban bushmaster fitted with a prohibited collapsing stock.
 
techbrute

Was a bushmaster M4 Flattop with stock pinned out. Quite a legal setup. Furthermore, the magazines shown at trial were ten rounders. The gun was legal, its procurement (either with or without of the store's knowledge) was ILLEGAL.

Legal-minded folks are the only ones hurt by these so called laws.
 
someone just needs to stand up and ask one question....

If it was already Illegal for him to have the weapon in question, what good will it do to pass more laws to make it more illegal for him to have it?? Prosecute the criminals for breaking existing laws!!!! making laws then not enforcing them ONLY affects those that voluntarily follow them, honest law abiding citizens.
 
You do of course know that the Anti response to such impeccable logic is as follows:


If the rifle were illegal then it wouldn't have been in a gunshop to be stolen or illegally sold to said scumbag.
 
someone just needs to stand up and ask one question....
You say that as if noone's stood up and said it already. Anti's will rarely let logic and intelligence interfere with their opinions.
 
You do of course know that the Anti response to such impeccable logic is as follows:


If the rifle were illegal then it wouldn't have been in a gunshop to be stolen or illegally sold to said scumbag.

And they have maybe 1% of a point here.

The gun then would just be made in Canada, or Europe. And he'd have to drive 3,000miles, instead of 30, to steal it.

Antis seem to think they can just 'de-gun' the world. That would be like trying to 'de-paper' the world. Once it's known how to make something, you cannot un-make that knowlege.
 
If the rifle were illegal then it wouldn't have been in a gun shop to be stolen or illegally sold to said scumbag.

no but because people have them already, they can't (ok well as of now anyway) take away something that WAS legal to own even if they make it illegal in the future. This means that he would just have to steal it from an individual rather than a gun store. That or just steal what ever the store had on hand (after all a bolt gun would have done the same job).

You say that as if none's stood up and said it already. Anti's will rarely let logic and intelligence interfere with their opinions.
True, and why I get so worked up and upset every time I start looking into what laws are being brought up, and actually have a shot at passing.... :fire:
 
And he'd have to drive 3,000miles, instead of 30, to steal it.
Or you can do what the French resistance fighters did and just take it from their oppressors. If someone wanted a gun, the policeman less than a mile away has one. True, it would probably take a little effort to get, but where there's a will...

You may also consider that National Guard armories are somewhat poorly manned and contain quite a few full auto weapons.

The point is that if you're a criminal, you don't have to go far to get a weapon. You just have to want one.
 
and just to get back to the point at hand, the fact taht the press uses the dc sniper as their main argument. Not only was the rifle illegal - (stolen, underhandedly sold, whatever) but all the shots were single shots (with no mag exchanging or rapid fire), AND from a prone position (less comfortable with a pistol grip), using a pretty small caliber bullet (223) from a non magnified scope (holosight)

If only he would have used a bolt action 308 with a magnified scope and a hunting stock, he could've taken out his victims from a mile away. Then we never would have found ANY evidence that suggested a car hide, the shots being medium to low ranged, etc.

These people are morons.
 
Or you can do what the French resistance fighters did and just take it from their oppressors. If someone wanted a gun, the policeman less than a mile away has one. True, it would probably take a little effort to get, but where there's a will...

Yup. This very behavior has made cops in South Africa into targets. They're some of the only people in the country that can get decent pistols because they're cops. Everyone else has to buy crap due to import restrictions. So they buy crap guns, shoot cops with them, then steal their good guns for fun or profit.
 
If only he would have used a bolt action 308 with a magnified scope and a hunting stock, he could've taken out his victims from a mile away. Then we never would have found ANY evidence that suggested a car hide, the shots being medium to low ranged, etc.

actually, they originally had one. the story came out last month;

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001842255_sniper23m.html

D.C. snipers originally had a Remmy 700 in .308



D.C.-area snipers may have planned attacks near Tacoma

By Mike Carter
Seattle Times staff reporter


Virginia prosecutors have concluded that D.C.-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo had set up a snipers' nest in a Tacoma-area field and were "preparing or training" to kill randomly with a rifle more than a month before the Beltway shootings began.

The pair were interrupted and forced to abandon the rifle, police and prosecutors said, when a truck cut through the field where they were set up behind an apartment complex early on the morning of Aug. 17, 2002.

"I think it's fair to say that we believe they were set up to shoot someone. We can't say who or why," said Deputy Prince William County Prosecutor Attorney James Willett. "Based on their subsequent actions — the random shootings of 10 people (in the D.C. area) — it is a reasonable assumption that they were preparing and training there (in Tacoma) for what eventually happened here."


Investigators have traced the rifle in the field to a Tacoma man, Earl Lee Dancy Jr., who has admitted he illegally purchased it for Muhammad and then reported it stolen at Muhammad's request after it was found.

Dancy is under investigation by federal agents for making that illegal "straw purchase" for Muhammad, who could not legally possess a gun because he was the subject of a domestic-violence protective order. Dancy and Muhammad were friends and Muhammad and Malvo had stayed with him off and on.

A federal law-enforcement source has confirmed that the U.S. Attorney's Office in Seattle is contemplating charging Dancy with making false statements on a federal firearms form. The crime is a felony that carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison.

Dancy, contacted yesterday at his home in Tacoma, said he was under a "gag order" and could not talk about the case.

In his testimony during Muhammad's trial in Virginia last November, Dancy said Muhammad came to him in November 2001, said he needed a rifle, and gave him $800 in cash. Dancy bought the gun at Bull's Eye Shooter Supply in Tacoma. Over the next several months, Dancy testified, he, Muhammad and Malvo went several times to an outdoor Tacoma shooting range to fire it.

"Did the defendant ever make any remarks to you about Mr. Malvo at the shooting range?" Prosecutor Paul Ebert asked.

"Yeah. He showed me a target and we looked at the grouping and he said, 'That's a sniper,' " obviously impressed with Malvo's skill.

The rifle was a Remington Model 700, a model commonly used by police sharpshooters and similar to the weapon used by U.S. Marine Corps snipers. When found in the Tacoma field, the gun was loaded with a bullet in the chamber and equipped with a telescopic sight and bipod, used to steady the weapon for more accurate shooting.

Pierce County Sheriff's Sgt. Ed Troyer said there was an apartment building nearby, and the field commanded a view of Highway 512 southeast of Tacoma.

Troyer has gone back through police reports and found no incidents of illegal shooting or shots being fired in that area.

According to a sheriff's report made by the two Pierce County men who found the gun, they were leaving the apartment building, took a shortcut in their truck through a field next door, "and noticed something sticking out of a green duffle bag."

"When they stopped and looked closer they saw that it was a rifle with a scope and a tripod on it," the deputy wrote, misidentifying the bipod attached to the gun's stock.

"When they (got) out of the truck, they could hear someone running through the bushes, but couldn't see them," the report said. "They said the rifle was loaded with one .308 round and was up on its tripod pointed at the apartment building that they just came from."

The discovery of the rifle may partially answer one question for investigators, according to the Virginia prosecutors: why Malvo shoplifted a Bushmaster assault rifle — the weapon used in the Beltway shootings — from Bull's Eye. According to statements from Bull's Eye employees, the Bushmaster was first noticed missing sometime in August or September 2002 probably after the Remington was abandoned in the field.

The two guns are significantly different from each other.

The Remington, the weapon found in the field, is a 44-inch-long rifle that can be fired only after the shooter manually operates its bolt action, which ejects a spent casing and reloads the next round for firing. Its magazine carries five bullets. The rifle fires powerful .308-caliber bullets and can shoot accurately at distances of 500 yards or more.

The Bushmaster is roughly 35 inches in length and fires a .223-caliber bullet. It is an assault-style weapon that can fire as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger and can be fed with a 30-round magazine. While accurate at up to 250 yards or so, it is not commonly considered a sniper rifle.

The Bushmaster that Muhammad and Malvo used was equipped with both telescopic and laser sights.

The first of the shootings tied to the Bushmaster occurred Oct. 2, when a round was fired through the window of a Michael's craft store in Aspen Hill, Md. That same day, James Martin, 55, was shot dead outside a supermarket in Wheaton, Md.

Muhammad was convicted and sentenced late last year to die for the death of Dean Meyers, who was shot down while filling his car at a gas station near Manassas, Va. Malvo was convicted and given a life sentence in Virginia for the Oct. 14, 2002, slaying of FBI analyst Linda Franklin.

Prince William County Commonwealth's Attorney Paul Ebert said he is preparing a Virginia homicide case against Malvo.

Besides the two convictions, Muhammad and Malvo are suspects in 12 other slayings in Washington, Maryland, Virginia, Louisiana, Georgia and Alabama. The first killing for which they are suspects is the Feb. 16, 2002, slaying of Keenya Cook in Tacoma.

Cook was killed with a .45-caliber handgun owned by Dancy, who has testified that Muhammad and Malvo routinely borrowed and fired several weapons belonging to him.

Malvo, 18, has told police and psychiatrists that the 43-year-old Muhammad had sent him to commit that shooting as a test. Cook was the niece of Isa Nichols who police and prosecutors say was a target of Muhammad's rage because she had sided with his ex-wife, Mildred, in their divorce.

While it has been speculated that Nichols was the intended target of that shooting, Deputy Prince William County Prosecutor Rick Conway, also on the team that convicted Muhammad, says that's not clear. "I believe statements have been made by Malvo to the effect that Muhammad wanted to kill one member of the Nichols family every year so Isa Nichols would suffer," Conway said.


__________________
 
Interesting that they point out that the Remington 700 is used by police snipers and the Marines, while ignoring the fact that it's also one of (if not the) the most popular hunting rifles in the country.

And in the court pictures of the Bushmaster, I don't remember seeing either telescopic or laser sights. I remember a holo sight, but that's about it.

Just to be sure I'm clear on this...M&M had a Rem700 that they obtained through an illegal straw purchase (any info on whether this Dancy cat has been prosecuted?), probably killed a woman with another gun they borrowed from Dancy (accessory to murder if it's true) and have admitted to stealing the Bushy. So of course, the victims' families are suing Bulls Eye, Bushmaster, and the distributor.

The only people I can see with any sort of liability for this whole thing are M&M, but they A) don't have any money, so there's nothing monetary to gain by suing them; and B) there's no political point to be made by suing them.
 
The rifle was a Remington Model 700, a model commonly used by police sharpshooters and similar to the weapon used by U.S. Marine Corps snipers. When found in the Tacoma field, the gun was loaded with a bullet in the chamber and equipped with a telescopic sight and bipod, used to steady the weapon for more accurate shooting.

Here it comes boys, your 'deer guns' are now 'sniper rifles'.




The Remington, the weapon found in the field, is a 44-inch-long rifle that can be fired only after the shooter manually operates its bolt action, which ejects a spent casing and reloads the next round for firing. Its magazine carries five bullets. The rifle fires powerful .308-caliber bullets and can shoot accurately at distances of 500 yards or more.

The Bushmaster, is a 34-inch-long rifle that can be fired only after the shooter manually operates the charging handle, which reloads the next round for firing. It is then like any revolver. It's magazine was fitted with 10 rounds in this case. The rifle carried no telescopic sights, and because of the small .223 cartridge, is not considered useful beyond 250meters.


If both of these guns were banned from public hands, the DC pair would simply have stolen them from police cars, where they would have come with larger magazines, accuracy and firing enhancements that the public is not permitted to own today.
 
I think they used an "assault rifle" because that was what the people who hired them told them to use. If group "X" wants to get an assault weapons ban passed and elect an anti-gun governor, their killers can't use a bolt action.

Jim
 
Feinstein in her testimony about the gun maker lawsuit bill was trying to imply that the gun shop "let" the AR15 get stolen, possibly for under the table money.
Her comments are absurd. Either the gun shop owners are remarkably stupid or the gun was actually stolen. A gun shop isn't going to hand out a rifle "under the table" knowing it has a high probability of falling into police hands and leading directly back to them. Not to mention, even as incompetent as the ATF is, they would eventually notice firearms listed in their bound book that were not in the store. If the gun shop was going to sell guns illegally, they would use straw purchasers to ensure their records were correct.
 
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