Munich
- Thread starter DevLcL
- Start date
- Status
Tom Servo
Member
I thought it was well-done, but too long. I found it odd that the depiction of the Munich massacre was spread out through the movie instead of being shown all at once in the beginning, and it seemed to imply that Avner was having flashbacks about it, even though he wasn't there.
The scene with the Dutch woman was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in a movie. I liked the characterization of the team, though.
Though the movie gives the mention of "other teams" at the end, I'd like to have seen more about the larger picture, especially the Lillehammer incident, in which another team killed an innocent Moroccan they'd mistaken for Salameh.
I think people (including Spielberg) seem to have read too much into the "message" of the movie as being anti-Israel. I thought it was pretty even-handed politically, and it was right-on about how little long-term damage the Mossad actually did to the terrorist organization with a few assasinations.
The scene with the Dutch woman was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in a movie. I liked the characterization of the team, though.
Though the movie gives the mention of "other teams" at the end, I'd like to have seen more about the larger picture, especially the Lillehammer incident, in which another team killed an innocent Moroccan they'd mistaken for Salameh.
I think people (including Spielberg) seem to have read too much into the "message" of the movie as being anti-Israel. I thought it was pretty even-handed politically, and it was right-on about how little long-term damage the Mossad actually did to the terrorist organization with a few assasinations.
kentucky_smith
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,686
Try again. *hint* That's not a m1951 and it's not England. Also look at triggerguard and placement of take-down lever.
Mannlicher
Member
high quality? Exellent? Well, it does show just how 'human' the terrorists are, how 'compassionate' they really are. Hey, they are just like you and I, right?
Makes me want to hurl.
Makes me want to hurl.
greyhound
Member
I agree 100% on that. I think it was the way she stopped to hug her cat before she died. Totally creepy. I guess those things were improvised .22s?
I have not seen this movie, nor will I.
I did read the book upon which it is based.
I know a little bit about this topic.
The book is fiction. Oh, the Israeli intelligence services did hunt down those responsible for and participating in the Mucih killings. However, a large number of particulars are not true. The author of the book claimed to be an insider in the Israeli inteelignce community, and he had no such background. The Haed of the Mossad at the time was not interviewed. Ditto for the gentleman who commanded the operation. This was also true for the movie--Spielberg never bothered to try to interview those people who know most about it. This I know for fact. (Whether or not those folks would have agreed to give out information is another matter--the point is the Spielberg (who is reasonably well-connected in the Jewish and Israeli community, and who did not lack the opportunity) never bothered to try.
The basic premise of the film, if my information is correct, is that the Israelis who were involved in the killings of these terrorists, suffered from self-doubt and worry about whether or not thier methods made them similoar to the terrorists. While I cannot speak for everyone involved, the ones that I do know have no such qualms.
I did read the book upon which it is based.
I know a little bit about this topic.
The book is fiction. Oh, the Israeli intelligence services did hunt down those responsible for and participating in the Mucih killings. However, a large number of particulars are not true. The author of the book claimed to be an insider in the Israeli inteelignce community, and he had no such background. The Haed of the Mossad at the time was not interviewed. Ditto for the gentleman who commanded the operation. This was also true for the movie--Spielberg never bothered to try to interview those people who know most about it. This I know for fact. (Whether or not those folks would have agreed to give out information is another matter--the point is the Spielberg (who is reasonably well-connected in the Jewish and Israeli community, and who did not lack the opportunity) never bothered to try.
The basic premise of the film, if my information is correct, is that the Israelis who were involved in the killings of these terrorists, suffered from self-doubt and worry about whether or not thier methods made them similoar to the terrorists. While I cannot speak for everyone involved, the ones that I do know have no such qualms.
Kamicosmos
Member
Movie Poster: Why does he have a modern Beretta 92/96FS? 
I haven't seen the movie, but plan on renting it on the next visit to the video store.
I haven't seen the movie, but plan on renting it on the next visit to the video store.
Kamicosmos Movie Poster:
Because it looks cool. I'm currently looking at the box for The Peacekeeper. On the back it shows one of the movies characters holding what appears to be a Baby Desert Eagle. Nowhere in the movie does anybody use a Baby Desert Eagle. But somebody in the art department decided that the Baby Desert Eagle looked cooler then the Beretta 92 that the character used. That's as complicated as it gets.
Because it looks cool. I'm currently looking at the box for The Peacekeeper. On the back it shows one of the movies characters holding what appears to be a Baby Desert Eagle. Nowhere in the movie does anybody use a Baby Desert Eagle. But somebody in the art department decided that the Baby Desert Eagle looked cooler then the Beretta 92 that the character used. That's as complicated as it gets.
BrokenPaw
Member
It's also mirror-imaged; the little pushbutton for the takedown lever is on the right side of the frame.
-BP
justashooter
member
maybe it's a beretta 1951, or some other variant. lot of berettas look alike.
the two things in the movie that were wrong? watched this on a 6 yuan bootleg 3 nights ago. prolly the semitic guys dressing up like chicks in wigs and dresses (definitely way wrong! staring directly at the sun wouldn't cleanse these eyes), and the benevolent french godfather (when have the french ever been benevolent?).
the two things in the movie that were wrong? watched this on a 6 yuan bootleg 3 nights ago. prolly the semitic guys dressing up like chicks in wigs and dresses (definitely way wrong! staring directly at the sun wouldn't cleanse these eyes), and the benevolent french godfather (when have the french ever been benevolent?).
Um, I actually saw the movie and I'm wondering where the terrorists are depicted as compassionate. When they machine gun the athletes in the helicopter? When they shoot the guy in the face in the beginning?
No, they aren't as one-dimensional as a stock Arab in say, "Navy Seals" with Charlie Sheen, but I don't think the movie went overboard in its depictions (except for maybe the hand-wringing on the part of the Israelis).
No, they aren't as one-dimensional as a stock Arab in say, "Navy Seals" with Charlie Sheen, but I don't think the movie went overboard in its depictions (except for maybe the hand-wringing on the part of the Israelis).
Keith Wheeler
Member
I have no interest in seeing the movie because, as a previous poster stated, Spielberg made no attempt to interview any of the people actually involved in the events. It's a fiction, sort of inspired by actual events. I prefer my fiction, um fictional...and without making some of the most professional of professionals look like they were wallowing in self-doubt.
Perhaps when they financed the American Revolution?
justashooter said:
Perhaps when they financed the American Revolution?
Sylvan-Forge
Member
War is hell, yes. Though I'da liked to see a little more proactive effort from the protagonists rather than just bohooing when it comes to collateral damage.
The assasin girl bit .. hugging her cat started the 'feel sorry for her?' emotion-train. Funny how some folks can seem lovable in some regards and be cut-throat in others.
Was waiting for a bunch of hollywood crap, or sinister subtle idealic indoctrinations , but was surprised to find I was enthralled. Good fiction.
Think I might see it again to see what I missed ... Forgot to drop it off, might as well keep it another couple days, heh.
The assasin girl bit .. hugging her cat started the 'feel sorry for her?' emotion-train. Funny how some folks can seem lovable in some regards and be cut-throat in others.
Was waiting for a bunch of hollywood crap, or sinister subtle idealic indoctrinations
, but was surprised to find I was enthralled. Good fiction.Think I might see it again to see what I missed ... Forgot to drop it off, might as well keep it another couple days, heh.
Cosmoline
Member
No way. The '51 does not look like the 92. The trigger is completely different, for one thing. And the trigger guard on the 92 is distinctively large. The handgun itself is smaller, as well. I've fired and cleaned the 92F many many times, and that's one he's got in the poster there. Whether or not it's in the movie, I don't know.
71Commander
Member
The car has the steering wheel on the left side which would put it in Europe (England). That being said, I don't think they have Hotel/Motels.
BTW. I was stationed in Germany from Jan 72 until Sept 72.
BTW. I was stationed in Germany from Jan 72 until Sept 72.
Mannlicher
Member
Keith opines:
well, even then it was not a benevolent act. The French King was at war around the world with the British King. A little help for the Americans was just another theater of that war to the French. I am greatful for the help, of course, but not unmindful of the reason for it.
well, even then it was not a benevolent act. The French King was at war around the world with the British King. A little help for the Americans was just another theater of that war to the French. I am greatful for the help, of course, but not unmindful of the reason for it.
Lightsped
Member
I bought the DVD today. Watched it and thought it was a decent movie. Alittle long, but I enjoyed the details in the atmospheres of the various countires the group traveled too. I also liked the shootouts, and yes the killing of the Dutch woman scene was quite strange/unique.
My questions are: I recognized the AK-47s, maybe some Uzis, but beyond that, what kind of handguns were they using? I thought I saw a Walther P-38in one scene. I wasn't around in 1972, so help me out with the various handguns in this movie.
My questions are: I recognized the AK-47s, maybe some Uzis, but beyond that, what kind of handguns were they using? I thought I saw a Walther P-38in one scene. I wasn't around in 1972, so help me out with the various handguns in this movie.
PILMAN
Member
I saw munich when it was in theatres, I thought it was a very good movie had a dark gritty view to it and it fit well. The emotions and the gunfights were good too. Most of the assasinations were the same as reallife with a few minor differences. The assasination of the guy telling the nights story in arabic where they killed him before he got on the elevator happened as well the the beiruit invasion (yes they dressed like woman). The only one minorly changed was the phone bomb. I had heard they put the bomb under the table rather than the phone and when the guy picked up they blew up the bomb. I think it's one of those movies you'll either love or hate, but hey it's nice to see a movie based on Israel theres really not too many and as a Jew my self I didn't find anything wrong with the movie though other Jews for some reason aren't too happy about it
I seemed to remember that Eric Bana's character toted a Beretta 92 compact throughout the movie, while the one on the dvd cover is the full-size version. Anyone know what gun is shown on this poster? Almost looks like a SIG.
http://www.comingsoon.net/gallery/Thriller/Munich/poster.jpg
http://www.comingsoon.net/gallery/Thriller/Munich/poster.jpg
I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that the Mossad used .22LR Beretta Model 70 pistols on at least two of the assasinations.
Beretta 92 pistol did not become available until 1977 and the 92FS wasn't available outside US Military until 1986.
Car looks like an 1960s French FIAT and I think the steering wheel would be on the left side, even in England
Beretta 92 pistol did not become available until 1977 and the 92FS wasn't available outside US Military until 1986.
Car looks like an 1960s French FIAT and I think the steering wheel would be on the left side, even in England
Zundfolge
Member
I agree that it was too long ... especially the last half hour or so of the movie.
I also agree that the psychological effects on the Massad assassins was just silly Hollywood leftist psychobabble (I do, however, think the paranoia was spot on).
I don't think the movie was so much "pro-Arab", "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel" as it was typical leftist/post modernist "anti use of violence in response to terrorism" with a touch of "white/western culture guilt".
I also agree that the psychological effects on the Massad assassins was just silly Hollywood leftist psychobabble (I do, however, think the paranoia was spot on).
I don't think the movie was so much "pro-Arab", "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel" as it was typical leftist/post modernist "anti use of violence in response to terrorism" with a touch of "white/western culture guilt".
Shweboner
Member
I liked it.
And reading al of these posts no one has mentioned the MAKAROVS!!!
There were several Maks in the movie.
Also... I was not disturbed by the Dutch woman being killed. Either because it appeared that she was getting what she had comming to her.... or I have been de-sensitized by Violent video games/music/movies... who knows.
And reading al of these posts no one has mentioned the MAKAROVS!!!
There were several Maks in the movie.
Also... I was not disturbed by the Dutch woman being killed. Either because it appeared that she was getting what she had comming to her.... or I have been de-sensitized by Violent video games/music/movies... who knows.
Well I went into town, rented Munich and watched it last night.
I didn't find the portrayed operatives to have any worse reservations or moral questions than anyone else placed in a situation of life and death.
The Steven Speilberg interview at the start of the DVD explains why the movie does not go into great deal about exactly what the targeted individuals did to get their names on the kill list.
The operatives were not given the exact details either and there has always been speculation that some of the individuals were targeted for reasons other than those suggested and there is always the possibility that some of the men were targeted in error.
Worry not for the poor, poor Dutch woman, she didn't exsist in the real world.
Why would one feel more hurt for her death than that of the old poet?
He is one that the burden of guilt could not be determined, in real life or in cinema.
Her guilt appeared all but conclusive to me.
I would have done the same for one of my team members.
No guilt, no shame.
By the way, I don't care to watch two people in love, making love, on screen.
Don't need to see it, could have figured out what the relationship was without the graphic display.
Always thought that was something two people should share with one another behind closed doors and those graphics weren't neccessary in my eyes.
But I guess that is what really sells movies anymore.
The movie is entertaining and I would recommend it to anyone who was around during that period of dark days.
I didn't find the portrayed operatives to have any worse reservations or moral questions than anyone else placed in a situation of life and death.
The Steven Speilberg interview at the start of the DVD explains why the movie does not go into great deal about exactly what the targeted individuals did to get their names on the kill list.
The operatives were not given the exact details either and there has always been speculation that some of the individuals were targeted for reasons other than those suggested and there is always the possibility that some of the men were targeted in error.
Worry not for the poor, poor Dutch woman, she didn't exsist in the real world.
Why would one feel more hurt for her death than that of the old poet?
He is one that the burden of guilt could not be determined, in real life or in cinema.
Her guilt appeared all but conclusive to me.
I would have done the same for one of my team members.
No guilt, no shame.
By the way, I don't care to watch two people in love, making love, on screen.
Don't need to see it, could have figured out what the relationship was without the graphic display.
Always thought that was something two people should share with one another behind closed doors and those graphics weren't neccessary in my eyes.
But I guess that is what really sells movies anymore.
The movie is entertaining and I would recommend it to anyone who was around during that period of dark days.
- Status
