Musings on making an M40A1...

[Dionysusigma]

Well, there are several guns out there that I want. Many of them are "For Military Use Only," like the 14.5" M4A3 with ACOG that I wouldn't mid having.

However, there may still be hope... minus a $200 tax, 6-month wait, and the requirement of turning 21. The USMC M40A1 is (AFAIK) a souped-up Remington 700 in .308, with a little extra TLC. Given the way things are going down the tube as far as laws and this hobby goes, this may be the last thing I can both A) afford to get and B) own legally while C) be cool because it's the "real deal."

So how does one go about making this? Which 700? Which finish on the McMillan stock? Which scope? Should I go all-out and get a Winchester floorplate on there as well (if so, why)?

This is what I was thinking of starting with:

The Ideal Action/Barrel/Caliber, Rem 700 Bull in .308

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vls.htm

The Ideal Stock by McMillan

http://www.mcmfamily.com/mfsinc_n/tactical.html#m40a-1

A Decent Optic, Bushnell 3200 10x40mm Mil-Dot

http://www.bushnell.com/products/riflescopes/specs/32-1040m.html

The base platform rifle and scope total retail is about $1000, and I have no idea how much the stock is. Is there a better choice of optic out there that will not cost more than the rifle itself? Am I being too picky about the price of everything? Is this even a good idea to do?

Any thoughts/opinions on this project or personal experience with the M40/M40A1 itself?

 

[Houndawg]

Texas Brigade Armory M40A1

 

[Dionysusigma]

But that...

But...

But that's no fun!










*sigh*
Eh. I still wanna do this. Something about the process being half the reward.

 

[Houndawg]

In that case you need a Remington 700 short action receiver, a Winchester M70 floorplate, a McMillan M40A1 stock in Forest Camo, a HS Precision 24" 1/12 barrel, and a Unertl 10x scope and mounts. If you put all those parts together you'll have something that looks like an M40A1, but it won't be one.

 

[cracked butt]

The USMC M40A1 is (AFAIK) a souped-up Remington 700 in .308, with a little extra TLC.

The little extra TLC is the expensive stuf though. IIRC, the receiver is trued up, the bolt face is squared to the receiver, and the bolt lugs are lapped to the receiver- all of this stuff needs to be done with the barrel off.

I believe Remington also uses a proprietary barrel that isn't available to civillians- the barrels have 5r rifling if I recall correctly, though I just recently saw an ad for a Remington rimfire with that type of rifling, so who knows?

I think a trued up remington receiver with a heavy profile high quality aftermarket barrel might get you pretty close to the rifle you want, I might be even better than the real thing.

 

[Al Thompson]

CB, you may be thinking of the Army's M24. The M40 series is pretty much a hand made rifle at Quantico.

The least expensive way to get into a M40 clone would be to find a cheap M700 short action (used), unscrew the barrel and start adding parts.

By the way, the scope is the most expensive componant for a reason - that and the trigger is your "fire control system". If they aren't up to snuff, then that Krieger barrel and blueprinted/bedded action aren't worth much.

 

[ALS]

Here is a link to what goes into a Chandler Sniper Rifle.
All rifles are built by U.S.M.C 2112 Armorers.
BTW IBA just got a contract for 250 Sniper Rifles for the U.S. Army.

IBA Chandler

This list at least will give you a list of parts that can be aquired and added on as you save up for the final build-up for the gun you desire.

 

[50 Shooter]

Check Guns America, you can find a 40XB there. If you want the same scope that the U.S.M.C. uses, start saving every penny you can find. Here's a link to U.S. Optics http://www.usoptics.com/sub_pages/scope_model.php?recordID=10

You'll spend more for the scope then for the rifle and all the accessories. You could always go cheap and use a Tasco super sniper scope, has the same look but nowhere near the price or quality. http://www.riflescopes.com/departments/231/rifle_scopes/super_sniper.htm

 

[Jonathan]

Welcome to an expensive hobby.


Personally, I wouldn't jump right to the M40A1 clone right away. Although it's nice for aesthetic/collector's reasons, it's not the way to go if you're interested in bang for your buck. Also, considering the final costs for such a project, you will have minimal savings by doing it a step at a time: compare this to going with a good general entry package that would allow you to make better informed decisions once you have some experience.



Here's my recommendation: Savage 10FP-LE2B


Why?

1.) McMillan stock from the factory.
2.) AccuTrigger is probably better than any other factory offering
3.) CHEAP: $730 or so, depending on dealer
4.) swap barrel capability
5.) drop-in parts. One example:

6.) the unique bolt design arguably improves accuracy via chamber lockup


Why not?

1.) Factory Savage barrels seem to copper-foul badly due to roughness. This doesn't seem to be a big accuracy problem, but be aware squeeky-clean barrels won't be easy to get, and they won't stay clean long.
2.) The bolt action is pretty nasty. Again, an aesthetic, not a functional concern.


I would get the Savage, toss some TPS hardware on it, and mount a Tasco Super Sniper. Your total investment is under $1200, and you'll have very high resale if you decide to scrap the whole thing. If you want to tweak it, you can buy a custom barrel in caliber of your choice and install yourself, no gunsmith required. After all, maybe that .260 would suit you better than .308. If you really like the Savage but decide you want the M40A1 after all, sell the Savage and apply the funds for the new rifle. The depreciation will be less than the money you would lose building up the Remington 700 from base configuration compared to buying the M40 clone outright.

By the way, since we've hit on some builders, don't forget G.A. Precision:

http://www.gaprecision.net

 

[shoobe01]

I like the M24 better. Except for the long action, fiddly stock bits and price. I am all about black plastic and new techno-stuff.

I love my PSS for that solution. Here it is with the suprisingly nice Elite 3200 mildot. The front of the scope is covered by an ARD.

I am sure over time I will send this away also to get better trigger, new bolt handle, get all polished, painted green, etc. But I can. The gun works well now, and can be made to work better as I get the time and money. The whole, invest slowly thing has worked out well on a number of guns for me.

Total investment for the PSS is under $1000 so far. Including the versapod, giles sling, scope, mildotmaster and nice .308 dies.

It is at least 1/6th as nice as an SR-60.

 

[Hatton7]

Nice rifle

shoobe01
What kind of accuracy are you getting? Do you handload?

 

[shoobe01]

I have dies and the brass is clean and sorted, but haven't /quite/ actually loaded anything. A few iterations of custom loads and we'll really see how she really shoots.

By all accounts the PSS is a good gun, but so far, I seem to have really lucked out and am sorta un-inclined to send it off for more work. Usually hovers in a 1+ moa range with military ball. Slightly better with US commercial ammo of various sorts, depending on bullet weight. Seems to not love the very heavies, though, which is too bad if its true. I do have one sub 1/2 moa group, at 300 yds, with SA mil ball. Zoinks.

 

[HankB]

There was a story in The American Rifleman within the last year or two about a special Remington sniper rifle being built for the US military. The story mentioned that these rifles "were not available to civilians."

Now, a full-size bolt action rifle has NO special restrictions - I mean, it's not an "assault weapon" even in places like CA, it's not a "short barreled rifle" or anything else . . . so why the won't Remington sell these over the counter? Is the military supplying some unique parts themselves, or has some weenie at Remington - maybe the guy who signed "The Agreement" at S&W - dictating a policy of political correctness?

 

[ocabj]

There was a story in The American Rifleman within the last year or two about a special Remington sniper rifle being built for the US military. The story mentioned that these rifles "were not available to civilians."

Now, a full-size bolt action rifle has NO special restrictions - I mean, it's not an "assault weapon" even in places like CA, it's not a "short barreled rifle" or anything else . . . so why the won't Remington sell these over the counter? Is the military supplying some unique parts themselves, or has some weenie at Remington - maybe the guy who signed "The Agreement" at S&W - dictating a policy of political correctness?

I think that American Rifleman article probably wasn't completely accurate.

The Remington M24 is sold to both the Army as well as Law Enforcement agencies. There's no law against owning an M24 (or a 700P/PSS, *Police* model, for that matter), so the only trick is finding a dealer that carries it or can order it and will sell it to you.

Here's a link to the web version of the article if people don't get The American Rifleman:
http://www.nrapublications.org/tar/practical1.asp

 

[ocabj]

The base platform rifle and scope total retail is about $1000, and I have no idea how much the stock is. Is there a better choice of optic out there that will not cost more than the rifle itself? Am I being too picky about the price of everything? Is this even a good idea to do?

Any thoughts/opinions on this project or personal experience with the M40/M40A1 itself?

The McMillan A-1 is $393.

As far as the barrel, I don't know what they used on the M40A1. The M40A3 uses Schneider barrels. http://benchrest.com/sst/schneider.html

As far as the optics go for an M40A1/A3 clone, you could either go with Unertl or US Optics.

http://www.unertloptics.com/products/index.htm#ux10
http://www.usoptics.com/sub_pages/scope_model.php?recordID=10

Unertl was the original manufacturer for Marine Corps 10x scopes used on the M40A1, but recently, US Optics also picked up a contract to make the same scope.

Both cost the same at $2500 a unit. If I were to pick one, I'd probably go with Unertl just for historical reasons.

If all you're looking for is a project gun, I'd recommend a Savage (as already mentioned). I have a Savage 10FP .308 in a McMillan A-5 stock. Great gun. I also recently bought another Savage 10FP (was in.308) that I'm going to turn into a .260 Remington (got parts on order already). The great thing about Savage rifles is the barrel nut system which allows quick and easy barrel changes. Savages are accurate rifles out of the box as well.

 

[uglygun]

You'll pay through the nose for a Remington M-24...

More than what a smith like George Gardner at GA Precision would charge you to build a rifle to similar specs or even better built...

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/m24.htm


As it stands now, I'm pretty content with my Remington 700 Police in 300WinMag that I picked up used with only 100 rounds down the tube for 600 dollars shipped.

I put the Bushnell Elite 3200 10x MilDot on it soley to have something to shoot the rifle with while developing loads for it. I was pleasantly surprised by how great this scope is for the money. It's adjustments are repeatable and appear to be as advertised while the optics are nice and clear. Definitely a nice value for a scope I paid less than 200 bucks for. The scope will get put onto a 20inch A3 AR15 for a spotter's role once I'm ready to rebuild the 300WinMag and the 700 gets a new Nightforce 5.5-22x scope.

 

[shoobe01]

I have seen the SWS and PSS repeatedly mentioned as LE/Military only, but its just a general marketing thing or misunderstanding. Much other stuff is also, like body armor.

I sorta don't mind impressing my co-workers with the special, super-secret Police Sniper rifle, though. Sorta hated to tell this one guy who asked that I bought it off the rack at the local shop, and 2 days later there was another one in its place.

 

[bcochran]

fun gun

Chandler. Iron Brigade. Last Nov. Referesher precision rifle class. Took "low end" Chandler Remington 700 with Leupold 4,5x14 mil dot.. Only 1 of 11 students to do cold shot in 1 inch square at 100 yards. Also did 900 yards dead center hours later on the second shot at that distance.

 

[shoobe01]

Okay. Now I need to add something to the PSS after all.

Took the gun out to the range this weekend with a friend, and his new employee (who is also ex UK national guardsman). Gun shot great, and I am even getting on the milots and such. I am the main hole in the system, like where I came up when I should have come down!

Anyway, in some relatively rapid fire I did pretty well. Engagement command, swing, hold off and fire at 300 to between the eyes. Exactly where intended.

OTOH, several other shots slipped by an inch or two left. All were obvious at the time, and I blame the trigger. Its the factory unit, lightened, but still has this little rough spot in the middle. When really taking my time I can shoot past it, but as I get faster it get more pronounced.

Presumably not worth stoning this, so what's everyone vote for a replacement unit? Should still have a safety, and be of appropriate weight (2-4# maybe?)

 

[simmonsguns]

m40a1

one of my best friends from school is building the m40a2's and m40a3's at quantico,he's been in the corp's for some time now,he started out for the first seversl years as a USMC sniper,with tours.he is by far the best shot i have ever competed with or seen,it's a good thing he's got his hands in the building of these.last i new they used Hart barrels,this could of changed with the amount there building now.good luck with the project.

 

[j45m16]

target master in chadds ford P.A has the m24 $4000.00 and some change

 

[Brian Williams]

So what the military does, and how they do it, has about zilch to do with what you can do. So guess what? The tool that they choose to do their thing with is a very poor choice for you.

BUT some folks like to collect the "Tools of the Trade". Not to use them in the manner they were originally designed, but because they can get them or copy them.

I want an M16A1 only because I had and used one a few years back and I liked what it did and how it handled, but I cannot spend that much money for what really will only be a high priced toy for me, so I plan on copying it one day.

 

[uglygun]

If the whole thread is going to shift to suggesting semiauto firearms, the AR10 in 300SRUM or in 300WSM is likely to show more promise than a BAR any day of the week, or the same AR10 with two seperate uppers such as a match grade 7.62Nato upper and a general purpose 7.62 upper.

But that wasn't what this thread was asking.

 

[shoobe01]

I am even sortakinda simulating the correct usage method. A friend acts as a more-or-less spotter and calls stuff out sometimes. Its a game or collector's exercise, but lots of people do it.

I can imagine even less real-world use for a heavy-caliber long-range mankiller for when its me against the world, that would therefore make me want an autoloader. If there is an EOTWAWKI situation, I have friends, and one of them can in fact spot if we need to shoot individuals from cover or far away.

Guess I need to get a better spotting scope, before the zombies come.