Musings on the Dragunov

[telewinz]

mylesd

If you want top-dog accuracy from a semi-auto military rifle you would be best off with an M1A NM. I own an M1A and its a simple fact that an M1A will in the long run outshoot MOST Drags and Romak3's mine included. That being said I shoot the Romak 99% of the time while my M1A collects dust. I like the Russian scopes (I have the 4 & 8X) but for target shooting the ^ is less desirable than the X that comes with American scopes. You can count on 2" groups at 100 meters with surplus ammo on AVERAGE I have gotten as little as sub 1.5 inches but that is not typical. Do I feel getting a Romak3 is a great investment at $700-$800, you bet! If I had to choose to get another M1A , Romak3, or Dragunov, I'd get the Romak3. The trigger on mine is fine and I get 2", 10 shots groups all day long with surplus ammo hot or cold barrel. Only the M1A IMHO can be classed as a true target rifle.

 

[uglygun]

Not sure what the going price is on a SVD pattern rifle of Russian decent but it can't be cheap, they seem quite rare and anything rare is going to be expensive.

As for the copies/clones, others can definitely provide better information as to performance than I can.

Only reason why I'm sticking my nose into this thread is to suggest the AR10s by Eagle/Armalite as an alternative to the Russian SVD option. Something like an AR10 A4 would probably be midway between a relatively cheap priced SVD clone and the more expensive authentic Russian rifle. My AR10 A4 with a non-freefloated chrome lined barrel holds right around MOA for 5 shots at 100 yards with better loads, not bad for a non-freefloated barrel. My AR10 may shrink it's group sizes considerably once I have the barrel freefloated, I'm fairly certain my groups are opening up to 1MOA after the barrel heats up with additional rounds fired. To date I've done countless 3 shot groups in the 1/2inch group size but it always pushes to around 1MOA by the 5th shot, one day I really should let the barrel fully cool between shots just to see if group sizes shrink.

Then there's always the DPMS 308 semiauto which typically comes in at under 1k dollars and performance is usually well below MOA from all accounts I've been reading.

Reason why I'm suggesting the 308 ARs is the wide variety of aftermarket parts and relative ease of mounting optics. The M1A downside is the quality of the mounts(Brookfield and ARMS being best, Springfield being worst) and the fact that the ACCURATE M1A rifles need to have a bedding job that has the potential to need to be redone. The M1A can get accurate as all get out but it requires high levels of maintence.

The AR platform, while admittedly probably less reliable, is likely to be capable of the best accuracy while also requiring less maintenence and being easier to configure or mount optics on.


I agree the SVD rifle is a cool lookin rifle but just how easy is it to get said match ammo that has been mentioned in this thread? Even if you got one of the Chinese SVD clones that come in 308Win. chambering, what's it going to be capable of with match ammo as opposed to say a DPMS 308Win which is probably competitively priced(or even an Eagle AR10).

 

[Nightcrawler]

You fail to take into account one thing, though, Uglygun.

I have absolutely no desire for an AR-10.

I can't imagine the Dragunov being more maintenance intensive than a match-grade AR-10. Take the frequent cleaning necessitated by the direct-gas impingement and combine that with the tight tolerances needed for extra accuracy...no thanks.

I'm sure the AR-10 is a fine rifle for anyone looking for a .308 autoloading target rifle. However, it's not a Dragunov and doesn't spark my interest in the least. *shrug*

 

[igor]

Cosmoline, those M-39's are, as mentioned, pretty heavily modified - they're called the Valmet TAK-85 as they were issued that year. This is from an old Q&A at guns.connect.fi :

Those parts of Mosin-Nagant M-91 or it's variants (other than TAK 85) are impossible to bed easily into stock of TAK 85. Receiver of this sniper rifle (in Finnish "Tarkka-Ampujan Kivääri") has the heavy "bedding sleeve" with two recoil lugs ahead of original receiver. Tang of the receiver is no more fastened on the stock. Long and stiff bedding sleeve only is in close contact with the stock wood, tightened with two srews. Receiver hangs free in the mortise of the stock. There is no more the bending stress applied to the receiver.

I've shot my share with these and have to say, they're fine weapons. And they come with a variety of optics - the last time I was in exercise, our range squad had Kahles, Schmidt&Bender and Leupold on the various 85's.

 

[telewinz]

Why do I prefere the Romak3 ? It fires a powerful cartridge, the fact that IT IS an AK47 design (reliability) and its accurate. Isn't that what AK owners (and assault rifle owners in general) have been looking for? Plus surplus ammo is cheap and available and the parts problem seems to have been addressed. Now tell me again why I should select the Dragunov at over twice the price? Shorter gas piston and removeable trigger group not withstanding.

 

[uglygun]

Nightcrawler

I had a sneaking suspicion, figured you'd clarify your intent if you were opposed to anything else.

I didn't mean to suggest an AR10 would be more maintenence free than a SVD, perhaps more modular and easy to accesorize(depending on whether it be tactically silly or just geared towards accuracy). However, I believe that an accurized AR10 is easier to maintain than an accurized M1A that others have been suggesting.

I suppose my post was directed more at the post by mylesd than to you Nightcrawler, sorry for not clarifying that in the first post.

 

[Daedalus]

I just ordered a Romak 3 today, I really like the AK action and the price was right. I cant wait to take her out to the range.

0.02$

 

[telewinz]

Daedalus

ok

 

[telewinz]

Not to be pry but how much and from who? What kind of scope? Heres my "baby"

 

[Daedalus]

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ has a deal going on with new parts kits and receivers for 380$ with free shipping. No scope included but I have an 8x POSP I will put on it.

 

[Cosmoline]

Igor--are the Tak-85's still using M-39 receivers? If so there's a good chance they're actually antique weapons, with receivers from the 1890's. I find that pretty amazing. It's like our troops using a modified Krag for sniping. Only our Krag rifles were never as good as the Mosins.

 

[TooTaxed]

I recently tried to purchase a Romanian SSG-97 from InterOrdnance after firing one at Ft Benning...to find I was two days too late! Sold out, but expecting more perhaps mid-January...

 

[Tomac]

Mylesd, I used to own a Romak-3 (4x PSO scope) and with Russian '188' surplus I could whang the 18" 500m gong all day. By allowing the bbl to cool for a full minute between shots I was even able to match the SVD expected hit ratio of 16% (8 hits out of 50) on a B27 at 900m. My 'smith did a very nice job on the trigger for $35 (crisp, clean 5 lb pull) but Red Star Arms makes an adjustable trigger for about $85 that doesn't need a 'smith for excellent results. Read the May 11, 2002 report on the accuracy of the Romak-3 w/the Wolf commercial 148gr 7.62x54: Wolf 7.62x54 Ammo .
I sold my original Romak-3 :banghead: and am now planning on buying another from InterOrdnance the moment they get more in stock. HTH, keep us posted...
Tomac

 

[ceetee]

I've got just one quick thing to mention... if you scroll down to the bottom of that page with the Chinese rifles on it, it states the ammo as 7.62 x 54, not 7.62 x 51 (.308).

 

[Tomac]

InterOrdnance is expecting their next shipment of SSG-97s (Romak-3s) in a couple of weeks so today I preordered mine w/8x scope for $713 shipped:
SSG-97
Just ordered 4 mags w/pouch from K-Var, gotta order some Wolf 148gr ammo from J&G Sales if I can't find any at the next gunshow, SVD case from Tantal, RSA adjustable trigger, etc...
Tomac
BTW, the new Romak-3 receivers being sold w/the kits have a problem w/the optics rail being unfinished and out of spec so expect to do a little work to get optics to fit.

 

[Kestrel]

B27,

What is the rifle at the top of your picture? Is it a CZ 527 Carbine? What caliber? What kind of accuracy do you get from it? Do you like it?

Steve