Muzzle brakes and the 300wby vanguard

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R.W.Dale

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Muzzle brakes and the 300wby vanguard (pics added)

My new vanguard like the ruger No1 I owned previously keeps trying to crack my skull even with moderate loadings. I've alredy upgraded to a bell and carlson stock , the scope is a sightron 3x9x40 which seems to have plenty of eye relief. So the next step will probably be a brake. I'm leaning twards buying one from score high gunsmithing, unless you fellas have some better suggestions.

Those of you that have brakes on your rifles, Do they tame the recoil down enouht to warrant the cost? Are they so loud that I'll go deaf shooting it in the field without hearing protection?
 
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what the hell are you going after?elephants? :what: aside from swapping it for a 270:) , a muzzle brake really does reduce recoil like they claim, but they are very very loud. i dont know if the once a year hunting shot would do permanent damage, but it is a real possibility. i assume that stock has a good quality recoil pad on it already, but if it doesn't try that first. the ones i've shot with brakes were loud even with good ear plugs.
 
My only muzzle brake was a BOSS on a Browning a-bolt in 338 WM. Thought it was noisey and ugly and so rebarreled it to sub 30 magnum cal. Didn't care to make bad friends at the range, and the possibility of hearing loss to me or my partner when hunting w/o muffs was a concern. If you've gotta do it, some of the high end smiths "say" their's aren't excessively noisey, and they look almost seamless. One other thing I'd do before a brake is restock with heavy, laminated wood.
 
Good brake= loud brake

In my experience the most effective muzzle brakes are also the loudest, and a good brake on a 300 Wby would cause extreme pain without hearing protection. I have several rifles with Holland's Gunsmithing brakes on them and they are very effective; my 30-06 kicks like a 243. However, all I do with them is punch holes in paper. I tell my friends who hunt that unless they are going to take the time to put in ear plugs before they pull the trigger on that trophy buck, they might be better off installing a top quality recoil pad and living with a sore shoulder instead of hearing damage. I know some people will put a brake on for range use, then take it off and replace it with a thread cap for hunting. I don't know how that affects point of impact, I would think it would but haven't tried it.
 
I have a muzzle brake on one of my rifles, and while it does tame the recoil (8x57mm reduced to SKS/AK levels), it is *very* loud. It definitely gets attention at the range, and would be downright painful if not deafening without earmuffs.
 
If the recoil is more than you want to handle, I'd consider a smaller rifle. Like a 300 win mag or a 7mm mag, maybe even a 30-06. You'll probably (if not already) develope a flinch that will hurt your accuracy game badly. You're better off with a rifle you can shoot comfortably. The brake will tame it some, but if it's hurting you that bad, all you'll get from a brake is sore ears to go along with your sore shoulder :D
 
I'd consider a smaller rifle.
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:banghead:

7.65x53,7.62x39,7.7x58,303,30-06,357max,30-30,35rem,7.5x54,7.62x54r
All in hunting rifles! not milsurps

My 300 is hardly my only rifle and I didn't buy a 300 wby because I didn't need one. I can shoot this rifle just fine and not develope a flinch, but that doesn't mean that I want to just let the scope to bust me in the face while bench shooting either.

I've noticed that the weatherby accubrake can be removed for hunting situations I may go with this option.

What gets me is I'm not even beginning to push the velocity envelope for this cartrige yet, Todays loads chronied 2875fps with a 150grn pill
 
Bench shooting a .300 Weatherby rifle has never been fun.

On the other hand 150 grains at 2875 is below the spec for .30-06. Are you shouldering the thing tight? Free-recoil benchrest shooting is for .22s!
 
Bench shooting a .300 Weatherby rifle has never been fun.

On the other hand 150 grains at 2875 is below the spec for .30-06. Are you shouldering the thing tight? Free-recoil benchrest shooting is for .22s!
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Naw really? No wonder it was hurtin I was trying to fire it like they do in basic training from the crotch :rolleyes:

Ok all joking aside. It's not so much the recoil that's the problem. It's that all the recoil seems to be concentrated as muzzle flip with this rifle. Causing the scope to try and get me. I think it has something to do with the cut of the stock.
 
I have a Vanguard Sporter (walnut stock with Weatherby style comb; looks like a Mark V until you look REAL close) in .30-06. And factory .30-06 hunting ammo is about exactly what that load you described works out to, AFAIK.

It does give a good shove to my jaw on the bench, but I only shoot it on the bench when sighting it in, since I don't handload for it. Standing offhand, seated on the ground cross-legged with supported elbows, etc., it's great. I can feel it on my shoulder, but not too bad. It's a hunting rifle, not a bench rifle, and everything about it confirms that.

Lead Sled is my friend, when sighting it in.

I guess my point is that the same design characteristics that make the gun a PITA on the bench at my club's air-conditioned indoor rifle range seem to make it feel perfect outdoors in the dirt. And I'm picky about balance, fit and feel, since I'm a shotgunner, mostly, since I got hooked on shooting at moving things.

Is the B&C stock Weatherby-style, or a completely different geometry?
 
While the stock is of a somewhat diffrent cut than the original it's also a touch heavier. All in all pretty similar.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=916154

highresimage
 
Some years back when I was working as a range safety officer at the club range in MN, a shooter with a muzzle brake on his .300 Wby came in.

It did cut the recoil a lot, but the muzzle blast was something you could feel. (I'm glad I was wearing plugs AND muffs.)

The benches were the typical "T"-shaped affairs, and he had a stack of targets, weighted down with a couple of boxes of ammo, on the table to the right of rifle's action.

Each time he touched off a round, the edges of the targets lifted off the table from the rearward-directed blast. :eek:

If you're willing to accept a little less recoil reduction for a whole lot less noise, I suggest you look into the original Mag-Na-Port, which are slots EDM'd into the muzzle. I had this done to my .375 H&H and estimate free recoil reduction of 20%, and muzzle rise reduction of 50%.
 
After a good deal of research I'm also beginning to think that Magna-porting would be the way to go. If I did go with a brake one thing I would NOT do is have a brake installed that has ports on the bottom.
 
Hmmm...

They used to make Vanguards with straight combs, I think. Maybe that's what you had.

Mine is a completely different stock, very different fit.

vgd_sporter_sm.gif


Therefore, I can't really make any intelligent comments on your rifle and its balance or tendency to flip, as it's set up.:(

It's a pretty generic full-sized bolt action rifle, as you know. I guess it does have a light barrel contour.

Best of luck with it.
 
My 300 is hardly my only rifle and I didn't buy a 300 wby because I didn't need one. I can shoot this rifle just fine and not develope a flinch, but that doesn't mean that I want to just let the scope to bust me in the face while bench shooting either.
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Sorry, just making a suggestion. I find it a little weird that it kicks that hard with 150's at 2800+fps. What kind of scope are you using? I'd say you need to need to chain it to your bench so it can't raise up. Or have someone sit on it. And I don't care what anyone says, if you take enough scope shots to the crown you'll eventuallt develope a flinch. Maybe you should lock it in a gun vise.
 
Man, I'd say it's safe to say that your rifle "kicks":D I'd try to add some weight to it. You have a pic of it? You put bipods on or anything? Laminated stocks are quite a bit heavier than syns. I've shot 300 ultra but not the wthy. It wasnt too bad but it was a heavier rifle also. I've also got caught in the eye shooting a cheap 710 model with the cheap bushnell on it. It was a plain 300 win mag.
 
LOL that's a great idea:D Add a bunch of tacticool gadges to act as recoil absorbtion. I wonder what a tactical flashlight weighs:evil:

I have a scar above my eye given to me by a strange synthetic 30-06, thus the healthy respect for the damage a scope can do. I'll get the camera out tomorrow and post a pic of the rifle. I'd really like to cure this problem as even with the terrific muzzle flip I still managed to print a .80" group
 
I shot a German MK V .300mag in Africa AND North USA for 30+ years without a brake and never noticed the recoil of those 180 - 200 grain bullets when hunting. I do have a Gentry Quiet Brake I put on a couple years back on an FN Southgate Weatherby .300 replacing the anti tank factory brake which cracked and it reduces the recoil by at least a third with little extra noise to the shooter.I have not hunted with this gun only shot it off the bench-so far.
I think if you are getting beat up either from holding the gun wrong(technique) or something wrong with stock dimensions. These things recoil like a 12ga of the same weight!
 
Rifle looks good. Now get somebody to take a picture of you holding it in the poition it hurts you and we will tell you whats wrong!:)
 
Rifle looks good. Now get somebody to take a picture of you holding it in the poition it hurts you and we will tell you whats wrong!
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Trust me I make certian that my face is placed at the maximum eye relief.
 
Yeah but if the pull is too short or your head not down ect. you are gonna get whacked! Can you shoot a 12ga OK? Measure the length of stock on one that doesn't jurt you.;)If the rifle pull might be too short you can try a $10 slip on recoil pad and see.
 
Looks like is has around the right amount of drop at the comb for the scope you have, so cheek weld is not the prob I'd say. What's the length of the barrel? I'd say your best bet is a muzzlebrake.Whats the LOP on it? Looks awesome. Looks like a real kicker also. :D
 
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AS you can see I have my rifle back from having Score High Gunsmithing installing a brake.
Overall they did a very professonal job if it weren't for me having a stainless brake fitted you wouldn't be able to tell where the brake ends and the barrel begins.
AS for recoil this brake did not reduce recoil and muzzle flip. IT ELIMINATED IT :eek: I swear even with stout 200grn loads this rifle now kicks less than my CZ 527 in 7.62x39.

While the rifle is louder and you wouldn't want to make a habit of shooting it without hearing protection, I don't feel as though shooting a couple three rounds in the field per year will cause any great harm. I'll be able to tell as I have my hearing tested by my employer 3 times yearly
 
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