muzzleloaders and self reliance

[Busyhands94]

i realize that ammunition and such is getting expensive nowadays. however, i know i could shoot my muzzleloader for incredibly cheap. owning a flintlock .50 caliber i feel that i can hunt almost anything i want to aside from water foul. i can shoot rabbits with 10 grains, or go with a full load and shoot big game. I'm sure with proper shot placement and a 360 grain Minnie ball i could knock down a moose or Griz.

I can scrounge up materials to fire my gun. sulfur i can get cheap from a garden store. saltpeter i can get from a pharmacy. charcoal, well i can just make a fire and put some wood in a pot and seal it until i have good charcoal and then grind it up and use in my powder, and stale urine to mix it with, well that's easy.

flint... i live near a creek that was cut really deep from erosion. i always find artifacts such as arrowheads left from the Native Americans that once roamed the forests. there is a deposit of good flint and other sparking rocks down there. that is where i get my flints! i just find a decent chunk and chip it into pieces of suitable size, then sharpen them. and as a bonus i get to go run around the woods to get my shooting supplies! how fun is that! if i spend a half an hour i can usually find a good amount, usually a few big chunks. so my flints are free.

for bullets and balls i have two Lee molds. one cast a single 360 grain improved Minnie ball, and another casts two round balls. lead is easy to find. old fishing sinkers, used lead bullets, and stuff like that is where i get my lead and it seems to work quite well. i am sure that i could ask one car mechanic friends and get a huge amount of lead from them, maybe trade something for it. also i know several plumbers, i could probably get some babbits from them to melt down into lead bullets. that should work nicely. lead pipes are common, i can use them as well!

for patches, i did a little experiment yesterday. i was making some bullet lube out of beeswax and Crisco. while it was a liquid i had a mighty fine idea! i got some cotton fabric from my mom's scrap bin, cut a couple circles of cotton fabric, stuck them in a bag, and poured a bit of my liquid lube in there. then, i "massaged" the bag to get the patches well lubed. it seemed to work well! i also greased up some Minnie balls as well. it'll probably make them even easier to load in a fouled barrel and will lubricate and protect my bore.

well that's about it! i am thinking about making my own "tap-o-cap" with a lathe and using that to make percussion caps. i can use toy caps as the priming stuff. i am thinking about how i can make a mold for my NAA blackpowder revolvers. i have experience in making bullet molds before, i have made a .17 caliber one for my Remington Rider derringer. it's mighty fine and does it's job well. so for my NAA pistols i will try and make a boring bit that will cut a semi wadcutter cavity so i can shoot semi wadcutters with the companions. i might make it two cavity though, i could maybe cast both a round nosed bullet mold and a semi wadcutter.

anyway, i hope you all enjoyed reading this. what are YOUR techniques to save money or be self reliant?

Sincerely, Levi Hawken Dabney

 

[barneyrw]

I'm not sure how self relient that is. You need a garden store and a pharmacy to get the ingredients for black powder. Why not just go to a gun shop and buy black powder?

 

[JustKen]

Mr Dabney,
I had that notion myself too a few years back. But when you add in all the costs and time involved in being "self-reliant" it ends up being like barneyrw says; more trouble than it's worth. Unless you really love to doing it. Bottom line: Follow your bliss because life is short.

 

[Busyhands94]

i do it because i am under 18. i can't just walk into the gun shop and buy a pound of black powder and a couple hundred Minnie balls. i can however go to a pharmacy and buy saltpeter, i gotta tell em' it's for making slat pork though. otherwise they wouldn't sell it to me if they knew i was making my own powder even though it's legal to do so. besides, it's hard to find real black powder in California. and making my own stuff is worth it to me, i like the feeling of self reliance i get from doing so. forgot to mention i have tons of sulfur at my house, out in the garden shed. with as much as i have i recon i should be set for life.

Sincerely, Levi

 

[44-henry]

I prefer to keep my limbs intact. It is a heck of a lot safer to buy the stuff than it is to make it.

 

[Mike1234567]

Some good points are raised here but I see his point in being "self-reliant". In fact, that's my goal for the next year or two. I'm stockpiling ammo for use in modern firearms rather than shooting black powder but I'm doing everything else to divorce my need for outside things. Again, I can see why he likes the self-reliance of DIY.

 

[ofitg]

Nothing wrong with learning some modern-day "survival skills". Even if you can buy black powder, some people like to learn how to make it themselves.

Saltpeter used to be on the shelf in every drugstore, but not so anymore..... but it's possible to make your own saltpeter too, you just need potassium chloride (water softener salt) and ammonium nitrate (available just about everywhere in those "instant cold packs"). It takes some time and it's probably not cost-competitive with over-the-counter saltpeter, but it's nice just knowing how to do it.

 

[44-henry]

A lot of folks think that something so old as black powder is really all that dangerous, but there have been a lot of people seriously injured and even killed attempting to make it at home. Like anything if you do it right the risks are probably minimal, but they are always present. If I was going to do it I would stick to making very small quantities at a time. Nothing wrong with self reliance, but sometimes it is enough to know that you can do something if needed, but not make a habit of doing it unless it becomes necessity.

 

[Mike1234567]

A lot of folks think that something so old as black powder is really all that dangerous, but there have been a lot of people seriously injured and even killed attempting to make it at home. Like anything if you do it right the risks are probably minimal, but they are always present. If I was going to do it I would stick to making very small quantities at a time. Nothing wrong with self reliance, but sometimes it is enough to know that you can do something if needed, but not make a habit of doing it unless it becomes necessity.

Best advice I've read so far.

 

[Busyhands94]

i appreciate everyone's concern for safety, however i do keep safety as my top priority.

i always mix my blackpowder wet and then force it through a screen and then dry it out and store it. i always make small batches too. never anything bigger than a couple ounces. i also spray my container with some anti-static spray before i put the powder in. it seems to be safe enough. and of course, i always mix it in a non sparking glass container.

~Levi

 

[ofitg]

i appreciate everyone's concern for safety, however i do keep safety as my top priority.

i always mix my blackpowder wet and then force it through a screen and then dry it out and store it. i always make small batches too. never anything bigger than a couple ounces. i also spray my container with some anti-static spray before i put the powder in. it seems to be safe enough. and of course, i always mix it in a non sparking glass container

You're mixing it wet, and you work with small quanities, one or two ounces max. Sounds perfectly sane to me.

There will always be warnings from Nervous Nellies who never tried it themselves. Might as well get used to it.

 

[Busyhands94]

it's actually fine by me if people are showing their concern for my fingers. i have been making pyrotechnics since i was ten and i still have all my fingers. that is because i am one of those "Nervous Nellies" myself. i am very, very careful by nature because i know the properties of different pyrotechnic chemicals.

 

[44-henry]

Levi, I sounds as though you are approaching it with caution. Ofitg, I guess I am what you would call a "Nervous Nellie" but I am still alive. I have made BP in the past and could do so again if needed. Sometimes a bit of fear is a healthy thing and I am not afraid to admit it, nor do I feel any shame in warning someone about the potential dangers in a process.

 

[Busyhands94]

the way i see it is that God gave us fear to help keep us alive. if we had no fear we could end up like those "no fear" skateboarders with broken limbs and such. and when someone warns you about something, it's just them helping you out. making sure, that you are safe. it's good when someone warns you, it shows people are looking out for eachother. and the world need that these days.

i found that when you are making black powder, you should mix some stale urine and a little alcohol in with it. the urine actually helps the powder burn better. and the alcohol helps remove moisture and dry your powder. it may sound weird, but powder with that little "secret ingredient" compared with powder that was not enriched with that ingredient is WAY BETTER. the difference between properly mixed powder with that unmentionable ingredient and dry mixed powder is like night and day.

anyway, just wanted to put that out there for anybody who is interested in making their own blackpowder.

Sincerely, Levi

 

[Diggers]

I think its cool your learning how to make things you use yourself Levi. Not many bother to learn how.

A question though....lead pipes are common where you live? Really?

I would start drinking bottled water my friend.

 

[Busyhands94]

i meant at junkyards and such. i think they changed the pipes to be lead-free.

 

[Mike1234567]

OT: What's in stale urine that promotes better powder combustion? Ammonia? If so then why not just add a tiny bit of ammonia?

 

[Busyhands94]

not sure but I'm thinking phosphorous. all i know is they used it in the olden days, and it works. i will look into that further to see what is in it that makes it work so well.

 

[Pete D.]

BP

I can scrounge up materials to fire my gun. sulfur i can get cheap from a garden store. saltpeter i can get from a pharmacy. charcoal, well i can just make a fire and put some wood in a pot and seal it until i have good charcoal and then grind it up and use in my powder, and stale urine to mix it with, well that's easy.

Yeah, what you describe is easy. But the product - I guess that it works for you or you wouldn't do it - the product isn't "black powder"; the simple mixture of the the three ingredients is called "green" powder or polverone.
Do you really think that Swiss or Goex just mixes up sulfur, saltpeter, and charcoal and wets it in a bowl and then forces it through a large screen?

Black powder - the ingredients must be incorporated and it is virtually impossible to do that without a ball mill. It is the milling process, which takes hours, that is done by remote control and is most dangerous.

A question though....lead pipes are common where you live? Really?

I would start drinking bottled water my friend.

Lead pipes are still common in older areas in older cities. I have a home in Brooklyn, NY in an area where the homes date from the middle 1800s. I keep an eye out for renovations where the buliding plumbing is being replaced.
Also water passing through lead pipes builds a mineral coating over the lead in pretty short order. In any case, lead isn't very water soluble.
Pete

 

[mykeal]

What is WAY BETTER in terms of feet per second, or foot pounds, or pounds per square inch?

 

[Busyhands94]

not quite sure, however if you burn a little, it is noticeably faster than if you were to just mix the ingredients. try it, you'll see what I'm talking about! it's fun to experiment with fire!

 

[Busyhands94]

i believe there are two ways to make blackpowder, one not involving a ball mill. you can dissolve the KNO3 in water, and then use the water as a carrier to get the saltpeter into the pores in the charcoal.

 

[Mike1234567]

This is OT but I just wanted to say that the OP worded this thread title very appropriately. I don't know about others here but it frustrates me to see titles so incorrectly or vaguely written that I have no idea what the thread is about until I open the page. I only mention this because youths should to be told when they do something well.

 

[ofitg]

Levi, I sounds as though you are approaching it with caution. Ofitg, I guess I am what you would call a "Nervous Nellie" but I am still alive. I have made BP in the past and could do so again if needed. Sometimes a bit of fear is a healthy thing and I am not afraid to admit it, nor do I feel any shame in warning someone about the potential dangers in a process.

44-henry, I'm glad to hear that you've actually tried it, and I trust that your limbs are still intact.....

I remember years back, a guy who had previously put on municipal fireworks shows flatly stated that the stuff was too dangerous to work with.... he told me how he got injured grinding potassium perchlorate, sulfur and aluminum powder together with a mortar & pestle. Well, DUH......

Instead of hearing warnings to stay away from such activities, I much prefer to hear advice on how to succeed and do it safely. In Levi's case, I haven't heard anything about his method that sounds dangerous.

 

[Busyhands94]

as a general rule of thumb i try and stay away from anything that can spark, any sources of static, anything that can get hot, anything stone, and any metal powders. and away from where i keep my powder. i mix my powder wet with urine, or water, or sometimes slightly diluted alcohol. diluted enough that it wouldn't catch fire if you put a match to it. i also use a small amount of each ingredient so i have a small amount of powder. and i generally stay away from anything electric for grinding anything but the charcoal. that's basically how i stay safe.