MVTC French M1717 Musket

[Dave Markowitz]

I've had this musket for a couple of years but finally got around to taking some pictures of it today. This is a replica French M1717 musket bought at Dixon's in Kempton, PA, and imported from India by Middlesex Village Tradiing Company.

It's difficult to get a good full length shot of the musket because it is so long.





Trigger guard:



The lock has an interesting vertical bridle securing the frizzen spring:



It came with a socket bayonet which is not in the pictures.

The .69 caliber smoothbore barrel is 46" long. The top of the barrel has a flat running most of the length, providing something of a sighting plane.

The owner of MVTC checks the locks and makes sure the frizzen is properly hardened before he sends them out. The lock sparks well, the touchole is positioned properly just above the level of pan, and ignition is reliable and quick.

So far I've only shot it at 25 yards with a patched .662 roundball, getting an ~6" group. Considering that the only sight is the bayonet lug and that the trigger is very heavy, I'm not complaining. I think with some load development and a trigger job it could be more accurate.

I've read in several places that the M1717 did not see service in North America. However, this morning I ran across this article, reprinted from The American Rifleman, which includes a picture of a musket (musket #3) made by a Colonial gunsmith incorporating salvaged French parts, including a M1717 lock. So it seems to me that some of them made it to North America, though probably not many. Perhaps the lock or French musket came as part of as French aid to the Americans, or possibly it was captured during the F&I War.

 

[4v50 Gary]

On the ground? Is that how the uneducated among us can tell it's French? Joking. It sure looks pretty. Please pull off the lock and lets see how well inlaid it is.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

OK, here's the lock mortise. Could've been done a little more neatly, IMO.



And here's the lock mechanism.

 

[Ginormous]

Teak purportedly has a high silica content, making it a somewhat difficult wood to work. I can see a Dremel tool cleaning that right up though.

The lockwork is interesting. Would you mind terribly photographing the lock in its other two positions?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That's an interesting musket. It's essentially a transition to the Charleville, which had a double-throated cock and a more sturdily banded barrel, making it a great improvement on the Brown Bess as a battle weapon.

 

[arcticap]

There seems to be more hand fitting involved with building the Indian guns than there is with the European factory guns. But the polished steel looks really nice and it has an authentic look that anyone would be proud to own.
And it must have been really pleasurable to shoot it and to let it roar.
If the gun functions well, why be concerned about the lock inletting?
I can see that there is a little space behind the back of the barrel breech, but why clean up the lock inletting unless there's some kind of interference with the functioning of the lock?
The lock plate does seems to fit in the mortise very well with everything else also looking like it was carefully executed by hand.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Ginormous, I'll get those pics. Will try tomorrow.

Vern, yup, it's a neat piece. When I got it, the shop also had an MVTC Brown Bess in stock. This one fit me better since it has more drop in the stock. I noticed that MVTC is now offering a repro of the US M1816, which is of course a development of the Charleville.

Articap, Yeah, I'm not going to mess with the inletting. It functions fine. And your correct about the hand fitting, according to MVTC. Also according to them, all the parts are forged.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

That's a Charlieville right? Very nice... maybe i'm thinkin' of the 1747 or 1763? I dunna I like them anyway... :O)

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Not a Charleville. The SE on the lock stands for St. Etienne.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Ok then ... than's not a Charleville it's an M1717 right? ... got it. :O)

 

[alemonkey]

Wow, that's truly a beautiful gun. I'd been wondering about the quality of the Middlesex guns considering the prices are so affordable, and it looks like for the money they're a steal.

 

[mykeal]

Looks aren't everything. The lock mortise suggests to me that quality was not a high priority.

 

[BCRider]

I think some of you are being overly critical of the lock mortise condition. For a gun that is offered at what is apparently an attractive price point and given that the ONLY function of the mortise is to contain the lock so the face is flush with the outer surface and not to foul the action with contact I'd say they did a fine job. It's also a level of work that is very likely as good as or better than the original trade guns that were produced at a cost to make them cheap.

From what I can see the mortise is holding the action so the outer face sits nicely positioned but with a slight but visible gap in a couple of points. I'd call this a workman like grade of work but it's definetly a little short of a full on master craftsman fit. But if the musket comes for a decent price I'd be happy to own a copy.

 

[Das Jaeger]

BCRider

I would have to agree on most of your points there , the gun is what it is , and you pay for what you get . Knowing its a hand forged copy of sorts from India is all anyone needs to draw the conclusion it aint gonna be PEDERSOLI quality . Being critical is pointless anyway , never constructive , and only an opinion , most of the time the owner shouldn't have to tollerate anyway .

Here is my evaluation of the gun here : the work is half of what my Pedersolis are , the fit and finish are half of what my Pedersolis are , it costs half as much as my Pedersolis . Nuff said ?

Looks like a bargain to me , I would certainly be proud to own one too . Congrats !

Das Jaeger

 

[Dave Markowitz]

From what I can see the mortise is holding the action so the outer face sits nicely positioned but with a slight but visible gap in a couple of points. I'd call this a workman like grade of work but it's definetly a little short of a full on master craftsman fit. But if the musket comes for a decent price I'd be happy to own a copy.

Excellent characterization. Any shortcomings in the lock mortise fit are purely cosmetic.

 

[Artigas]

Beautiful musket, mate. Love those French lines in the stock. And at 46", that barrel's almost long enough to suit my fancy.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

As Requested

Half cock:



Full cock: