My .357 Mag Woods Load Workup

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I beg to differ, put a finger behind a Super Blackhawk with Dragon trigger guard and you wont call it a push with 44mag. it was memorable

You mean like this one?

The other ones a .357

 

[WrongHanded]

You’ll be surprised. A .44Mag pushes, a .357Mag slaps. Which is worse depends on the shooter. And their grip. Don’t take a Death Grip on any magnum revolver. That’s a sure way to get hurt.

When I started reloading (right after I joined THR, as my reason for joining was reloading knowledge) I began reloading .357 and .44 mag.

The .44 mag load ended up being an SNS coated 240gr LSWC with I think 20.5gr of 2400. That first year I shot an average of 50 of those per week, between a SBH and a RH. After that, I swapped out the SBH grip frame for a Bisley and moved on to mostly 300gr projectiles.

So I've got a little experience with recoil from Magnum revolvers. Though obviously less than some. If you want to experience some "snap", try a 125gr at 1425fps from a G32. It always gets my attention.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

When I started reloading (right after I joined THR, as my reason for joining was reloading knowledge) I began reloading .357 and .44 mag.

The .44 mag load ended up being an SNS coated 240gr LSWC with I think 20.5gr of 2400. That first year I shot an average of 50 of those per week, between a SBH and a RH. After that, I swapped out the SBH grip frame for a Bisley and moved on to mostly 300gr projectiles.

So I've got a little experience with recoil from Magnum revolvers. Though obviously less than some. If you want to experience some "snap", try a 125gr at 1425fps from a G32. It always gets my attention.

I sometimes play around with a T/C Contender with the 10" .30-30WCF barrel in place and "factory" 170gr. loads. Snappy ain't the word.

Figured I'd put the word out. Glad you already know. Some folks used to .44Mag "Dirty Harry" loads get surprised by full-house .357Magnums. Smaller bullet = less recoil... mostly true only, it don't figure in a lighter, smaller gun with a thinner grip frame. The big Rugers in .44Mag full hunting loads are pretty tame to me - and I LOVE that Dragoon grip! Wouldn't trade it for anything. It rolls nice in the hand. I've got a Ruger bird-head grip on my 4-5/8" .45Colt Vaquero and with a 300gr. Sierra JSP over 18gr. of 2400 it's a real handful. My Pietta/GW II .357 as a "Lightning" grip and 5-1/2" barrel. It's very light - it's not exactly "factory". With a 170gr. Speer DC load, it's a handful where the RBH isn't. Weighs half as much, maybe less. I tried it with a regular GW II "Navy" grip frame and that was a big mistake. The Lightning grip actually helps tame recoil a lot. Something to think about when you start messing with very hot .357 loads - but you probably already know so I'll stop giving advice now.

 

[WrongHanded]

2400 and 160gr LBT WFN-GC: Part II

Temp 79 Degrees, 12' from chronograph, cleaned barrel and cylinders between shots, ammo kept in shade until firing, still using GP100 with 4.2" barrel. 5 shots of each.

Charge - 15.7gr
High - 1277
Low - 1231
Ave - 1255
ES - 46
SD - 19

Charge - 15.9gr
High - 1299
Low - 1262
Ave - 1279
ES - 37
SD - 16

Charge - 16.1gr
High - 1328
Low - 1267
Ave - 1300
ES - 61
SD - 26

Charge - 16.3gr
High - 1337
Low - 1285
Ave - 1310
ES - 52
SD - 21

Charge - 16.5gr
High - 1359
Low - 1316
Ave - 1339
ES - 43
SD -21

Here's a picture of the primers:


Some cases were falling out on their own. The others were easy to extract. Even on the highest charge of 16.5gr, one case fell, I shook 3 more out easily, and the last one was easily extracted. I think the soot build up between the chamber wall and the casings is all that's preventing them from falling freely out on their own.

So this load of 16.5gr is currently producing almost 1340fps from a 4" barrel. Lyman cast book has a 160gr round nose running from a 4" barrel at 1344fps with a charge of 15.5gr. So 16.5gr seems like a whole lot of powder, and I honestly thought I would have to pull these ones and maybe a couple of lower charges too.

But comparing this bullet to the 158gr coated LSWC I use frequently, one thing is clear....


There's quite a bit more case capacity under this LBT.

There's also the question of the gun. The GP100 has much thicker cylinder walls than my 686 7 shot. So perhaps the easy extraction is in part due to a stronger cylinder.

As far as the chrono results go, 5 shots per batch isn't exactly a lot to go on. But the averages have gone up pretty consistently. And though the ES and SD have jumped around a bit, using a sample size of 5 seems likely to cause that.

I believe I will try loading 10 more at 16.5gr, and running them through my 686+ to look for pressure issues in that gun, and get a larger data set over the chronograph.

 

[WrongHanded]

300-MP and 180gr NOE WFN-GC: Part II

This is even more interesting to me than the 2400/160gr load. Remember I worked out the case capacity under this bullet to be about 17.3gr of 300-MP. I didn't quite get that far because Alliant has a 170gr jacketed at 17.5gr and I thought it would be too much. So I crept up from where I left off at 16.5gr.

Temperature 79 Degrees, 12' from chrono, same 4.2" GP100, ammo kept in shade, cleaned chambers and barrel between batches. 5 shots of each.

Charge - 16.7gr
High - 1272
Low - 1230
Ave - 1250
ES - 42
SD - 16
These results were lower than the 16.5gr charge from last time. Maybe temperature of cases or of gun? Not sure.

Charge - 16.9gr
High - 1283
Low - 1238
Ave - 1261
ES - 45
SD - 16

Charge - 17.0gr
High - 1275
Low - 1250
Ave - 1259
ES - 25
SD - 9
This is the tightest ES and SD tested. But with a sample size of 5 that's not saying much. The average is less than the charge weight below it. It would appear velocities aren't increasing much now.

Charge - 17.1gr
High - 1303
Low - 1251
Ave - 1270
ES - 52
SD - 19

Charge - 17.2gr
High - 1309
Low - 1274
Ave - 1292
ES - 35
SD - 15

So the average velocities did begin to increase again after the 17.0gr charge. 0.1gr appears to make a big difference, but again, with a low sample size, it's hard to determine much of anything.

Some cases were falling out on their own for 15.7, 15.9 and 17.0gr charges, with easy extraction. At 17.1gr and 17.2gr cases did not fall out on their own, but extraction was still very easy. Again, soot on the chamber walls and exterior of the cases seems to be a factor. Here is a picture of the primers:



Whilst I do have a curiosity about 17.3gr and chasing a solid 1300fps, I'm not sure it's worth it. I may simply make a batch of 10 at 17.2gr and see how they go with my 686+. I currently have 50 bullets of each type left, and would like to do some accuracy testing with them and both guns also.

 

[WrongHanded]

In case anyone is interested in how these two loads stack up with the formulas for Relative Performance Potential, Penetration, and Permanent Wound Cavity, here's what I worked out for the top end charges.

160gr LBT LFN-GC and 16.5gr 2400:
Average Velocity - 1339fps
Meplat Diameter - 0.285"
RPP - 21.424
PEN - 39.09"
PWC - 0.954"

180gr NOE WFN-GC and 17.2gr 300-MP:
Average Velocity - 1292fps
Meplat Diameter - 0.280"
RPP - 23.256
PEN - 43.19"
PWC - 0.904"

Pretty similar really. The faster lighter bullet calcs out to a slightly larger wound channel, but less penetration than the heavier bullet. Who'd have thought.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I did some work a few years ago with a 180gr Ranch Dog bullet in a 6.5" Blackhawk. I remember I liked where it was going.

I used A#7 and #9. I don't remember the exact numbers. I need to go dig that out and play with it more.

I moved on to some 44 Mag work, because I was younger and, well, 44 Mag as opposed to 357 Mag... You know...

But, now I have an NEF Handi-Rifle that will chamber 360DW. Along with a few hundred 360DW cases.

 

[WrongHanded]

I did some work a few years ago with a 180gr Ranch Dog bullet in a 6.5" Blackhawk. I remember I liked where it was going.

I used A#7 and #9. I don't remember the exact numbers. I need to go dig that out and play with it more.

I moved on to some 44 Mag work, because I was younger and, well, 44 Mag as opposed to 357 Mag... You know...

But, now I have an NEF Handi-Rifle that will chamber 360DW. Along with a few hundred 360DW cases.

Oh yeah, the allure of the .44 Magnum got to me early on too! Though I'm certainly finding this little experiment interesting. And honestly, I've found a new respect for the .357 Magnum.