My age group...

[c919]

Lately, something has really been bugging me...

All too often, I'll be at one of the ranges that I frequent and I'll encounter groups of guys around my age (20-30) who are almost unbearable to shoot around. Obviously, it's not everyone in my age group. There are a ton of great guys around my age who shoot.

The guys that I'm talking about are the ones who incessantly, and loudly, spew misinformation and various taunts amongst themselves the entire time they are shooting. You know, the types who basically shout to make sure that everyone at the line hears what they have to say (which is generally entirely erroneous).

A good example is the guys I encountered a few weeks ago while shooting with my wife. There was about 5 of them. All college kids I assume. The minute they walk in one of them looks at his buddy and says "Do you wanna shoot the 9mm or the 45? Are you a girl or are gonna be a man?" (All the while, my 4'11" wife is tearing a ragged hole with my M&P45c)

They went on like this for about an hour saying things like:

"Oh man, those home defense rounds have gone bad. See how the bullet isn't as shiny as mine. I'd throw those out."

"The 38 special is the dumbest round ever. It's for girls."

"All 1911's have that scratch. It's from cleaning."

"I sleep with a 12ga in my room because buckshot won't penetrate my apartment walls."

"The ACR is way better than the SCAR, you should know that, you play *some video game*"

"My cousin is a Ranger and he says....."

Etc, etc, etc....

And of course, the entire time they were there, they were just emptying mag after mag as fast as they could making no attempts at accuracy.

I even heard them making fun of some of the other shooters. And If my groups looked like theirs, I wouldn't be making fun of anyone's shooting.

I even tried to be friendly to them when one asked what I was shooting. I told him it was a SP101 and I asked what he was shooting. He told me it was a Taurus 1911, then he was kind enough to share some of his endless wisdom with me: "Do you carry that thing? I wouldn't. It only holds 6 rounds. I wouldn't bet my life on 6 rounds." Ok dude . And the SP101 holds five anyhow.

To be honest, it made my day at the range a bit lame. Normally, I don't let others get to me like that, but my wife and I were both thoroughly annoyed. I could tell some of the other guys on the line were getting pretty irked as well. Most of the time, the range is filled with middle-aged guys with the occasional wife, and a few of us younger guys and gals. Those are the times I love. Everybody is friendly, we let each other try out our new guns, shoot the breeze, etc. But when groups like that show up and act like that, everybody is put on edge.

I want more people to enjoy shooting, and I'm even glad that those guys like to shoot. I just wish they weren't giving guys like me a bad rap. I feel like these types have put a stereotype on guys like me. To illustrate, I was dialing in my Eotech on my AR when I first got it and I had an older guy crack a joke at me to the tune of: "It's not as easy to shoot in real life as it is in those video games, is it?" I don't even like video games, but I understand that to him I just looked like some young guy with an expensive black rifle who couldn't shoot. And, I'm with him 100% that video games really impregnate new shooters with misinformation and what not.

So, do you guys get annoyed with this stuff? I know it's the gun world, and there's always going to be the guys who'll constantly share their movie based thoughts on guns, tactics, etc, and it's not just the young guys either.

Do you guys have these guys at you're range? The types that can change the whole vibe of the firing line in a few short minutes?

If so, does it throw off your shooting? I have heard a few guys say that they won't go on weekends because they say crowds like that throw off their shooting. It bothers me for sure, but I wouldn't say I shoot worse.

 

[MinnMooney]

All of the references to "those are for girls" just shows they think that they have lots of testosterone and are more manly than the rest in their group. Sounds a lot like bar-talk, sports-talk or any-talk where 18-25 year-olds congregate. Male animals have to show that they're better than other male animals in order to get laid (excuse me, procreate ).

I'm double (closer to triple) that age so my testosterone is only so-so. IOWs, I really don't give a cr_p if girls notice me or not. They are just being boys............ & boys are generally obnoxious.

 

[General Geoff]

Can't say I have this problem, since I shoot at a private range whose demographic is mostly older folks. My immediate circle of friends is between 23 and 26, and we're some of the safest, most respectful people at the range when there are others there. We strive to maintain that level of safety and courtesy. Even when we're there by ourselves, we still maintain the highest degree of safety, though we tend to joke around a bit more and satirically mess with each other.

 

[Tilos]

It's more about an image than being a shooter and when they show up in mass the gang mentality takes over.

Not really gun snobs or possers, just somewhere in between, closer to the posser end of the spectrum.

I move as far away as possible and use "bad light" as a reason if asked.
Try to find/join a club/range that holds some type of action pistol matches as they usually have seperate "pits" for multiple stages tha can be "owned" by members when no matches are scheduled.
No hot/cold line stuff, shooting alone, the best way to shoot...for me.

And put a woman in an all men enviroment and the stupid stuff can be shocking

It's the same in most hobbies or sports.

 

[ATBackPackin]

I see it happen at public ranges and it can be annoying. Just remember what you are there for; fun, training, or just spending some quality time with the wife and ignore them the best you can while keeping an eye to make sure they are not doing anything unsafe. That's the best advise I can give.

Shawn

It's also good for a laugh when you look at their shooting groups.

 

[c919]

Can't say I have this problem, since I shoot at a private range whose demographic is mostly older folks. My immediate circle of friends is between 23 and 26, and we're some of the safest, most respectful people at the range when there are others there. We strive to maintain that level of safety and courtesy. Even when we're there by ourselves, we still maintain the highest degree of safety, though we tend to joke around a bit more and satirically mess with each other.

Yeah, you pretty much just described me and my shooting buddies. That's what I'm used too, and I guess I just expect that from others.

And put a woman in an all men enviroment and the stupid stuff can be shocking

Yeah, it does seem to be amplified when my wife and other ladies are there. She's young, cute and often outshoots half the guys there. I guess that might bring it out worse.

 

[matrem]

I'd suggest, just keep being yourself, and not worry about how "they" make "you" look. Age isn't important to most of the folks I shoot with, and besides, hopefully a few of those twenty somethings you're referring to will eventually "see the real picture".
As far as the older fellow that lumped you into the "typical novice" group, wouldn't worry about him either, in fact, there are a whole lot of folks my age & older (40-70 somethings) that don't seem to "get it" either.

 

[c919]

I'd suggest, just keep being yourself, and not worry about how "they" make "you" look

Oh that's not the stuff that bothers me the most. It's the fact that ANY gun owner has the potential to represent ALL gun owners. I'm not too worried what others think about me personally. It bugs me, but I'm more worried about the fact that these guys represent all of US to the non-gun folks that they know.

I could care less how some old grump at the public range wants to pigeon-hole me, but I very much care how we as gun owners are represented. So if these guys even make guns owners dislike other gun owners, imagine how they make non-gun owners feel.

 

[Old Shooter]

Give them 10 or 20 years and they'll grow up. It's just a bunch of young kids pounding the ground and in a little while they will mature and hopefully become solid, gun owning supporters of the RKBA.

How many members here have handed a novice shooter a 12 gauge loaded with slugs and said "go ahead and shoot it, it won't kick a bit"? More than one or two I'd wager. Best thing to do now is to just ignore them, chances are they are harmless. IF it really bothers you I'd just wait outside until they are done or come back another time.

At least they are at a range practicing and thats a good thing.

When I run into that at the range I just grin and listen to the young pups, reminds me of a day...

 

[fireman 9731]

I took a group of my buddies to the range once.

ONCE.

Individually they are fine, but get a half dozen guys together that know just enough about firearms to get them into trouble and put them together at the range and it gets bad.

They somehow feed off of each other and nothing good comes from it.

I know exactly what you mean though, and it looks awful on the gun community.

 

[GJW1911]

When shooting I sometimes see the same types, while very annoying I try to say away from them. Most of that demographic I have seen shooting, they are dangerous to others around them.

I also, like you mentioned see the other side of that. When I am out shooting an ak, gsg, or desert eagle, I get sneers and condescending comments form the older shooters
(I'm only 31) on the line taunting me about the firearms I decided to shoot on that day.

Or the guy in the suit and tie who is shooting a 3k dollars 1911, right beside you who will blatantly ignore you.

My point is there is a lot of different types at the range, and you just have to live and let live. (as best you can)

 

[General Geoff]

Or the guy in the suit and tie who is shooting a 3k dollars 1911, right beside you who will blatantly ignore you.

We often parody that image, by dressing up in three piece suits and fedoras to throw some lead down range. Weirds other people out sometimes.

 

[oldfool]

you are right.. it is really not an age group thing

it is some folks with far too little experience, and far too little knowledge of firearms, and too much attitude (not exclusive to any age group, though I confess I do think gender specific)

at our semi-private range, it is rare, an exception, but it happens, it happens everywhere

only "once" (though 3 weeks in a row) in the last couple of years
a couple of middle aged guys with toys
real nice expensive toys, fine firearms, obviously "brand new", with more ammo & accessories than I have ever seen on our range
(and it's not like we never get to see good stuff at our range, the local SWAT guys, etc., shoot there too.. and we own some "nice" ourselves)
worse yet, sticking cartridges into magazines backwards, trying to stick 40 mags into 9mm pistols

felt bad for the one younger fellow they had with them, trying to keep them from hurting themselves, but that's on him, not us, because they showed up together three times, and he was there with 'em all three times, family maybe

me and my best shootin' buddy (son-in-law) we just gave each other "the look" packed our kit quietly, and left.. (go shoot together tomorrow)

those folks (and maybe those you described) are going to hurt somebody, if not themselves.. our fools never swept anybody or any such, or (trust me on this much) something would have got real plainly said

some you can help, and should
some you just need to walk away from
that lady you are with deserves more than they do

but never was any thing about it to do with age
everything to do with attitude
guy named Sonier here, 19 years old, thinks some things about some calibers I do not 100% share
but I would be happy to share a range with him any place, any day, me four great-grand-children

there are no young fools
there are no old fools (but one)
there are only fools

they come and go, some best left to go on their own

 

[matrem]

these guys represent all of US to the non-gun folks that they know.

Unfortunately, that is true. One positive in their behavior is, most folks won't take them seriously, antis included.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I stopped shooting at our local public range some years ago just because of this issue and related problems arising from it.

Not only was it young guys acting as described above, but then you'd also have older busybodies interfering with them - trying to "teach" them in a heavy-handed way that was borderline insulting and totally unhelpful. I now shoot alone in a nice safe place with a dirt backstop on public land.

New shooters need mentors. If they don't have a mentor, they seek out people on their own skill level (almost none) and ingrain each others bad habits and poor technique. They shoot sombrero-sized groups with their plastic fantastic as fast as they can pull the trigger and go home happy.

It's a shame because it takes very little time to learn the basic stances and techniques that will allow one to become a competent shooter.

 

[killchain]

It's the Xbox Live mentality.

They talk crap to each other in Call of Duty so they can do it here.

I'm not one of them.

Of course, that's not to say some older guys haven't driven me batty either. I shoot at a private range, and they do postal pistol matches. One day as I'm doing my thing, one of the older guys shows up and sets up the cd player for the range commands. So I start hearing "READY ON THE LEFT? READY ON THE RIGHT? THE LINE IS READY" over and over again... and of course, he's got it cranked up.

EDIT= That day was not a postal match. He was just practicing, alone.

I just packed up and left.

 

[CraigC]

I'm 35yrs old and gave up on 99% of the human race but especially my own generation years ago. I'm probably too young to be this cynical but here we are.

 

[Mike OTDP]

False machismo and ignorance know no age.

The best counter is to head for the longer ranges. No duffer will even try to shoot a pistol at 50 yards.

 

[Phydeaux642]

I don't mind the misinformation they spew amongst themselves because it is generally entertaining listening to them. They wouldn't listen to the truth if you told them, so, why risk setting them off by trying to set them straight. The reason I don't like to be at the range with these types of people in a group is because they are generally a lot less safe than the other folks that are there.

I do like to go in to gun shops and listen to all of the amazing information that gets passed around, though. I was in a shop yesterday and a fellow asked the counter guy how long it took for a NICS check. The counter guy told him it was normally 5-10 minutes unless there was a hold and then that could take as long as three days. Another guy piped up and said that was true unless he was buying and "assault" rifle. He said that check took a few days. The counter guy told him that all checks took the same amount of time and that the type of gun that was listed was either long gun or hand gun with no choice of "assault" rifle. The guy said that that wasn't right unless they had changed things. I wanted to tell him that the store didn't sell "assault" rifles, but I knew he wouldn't believe that.

 

[KodiakBeer]

They wouldn't listen to the truth if you told them, so, why risk setting them off by trying to set them straight.

I suspect in 90% of cases, if these people were alone you could open a friendly discussion and actually teach them something. It's the group mentality that shuts down rational input.

The most BS comes from the worst shooters and they tend to group up and reinforce each other.

 

[jon86]

I have some friends... or better... acquaintences who act exactly like what you describe. I don't go to the range with them anymore.

 

[Mac's Precision]

I don't shoot at the public range very often. There are too many people and I am there for the purpose of test firing most the time.

I was there some years back to test fire some loads in a Remington VSF .223. There was a fellow there in his late 20's shooting a Browning in .338 Win Mag. I was in the process of opening my rifle case and getting things ready to punch some holes at 100 yards. While I quietly went about my business he proceeded to fire a shot about every 5 seconds or so. He would let one fly ...rattle the rafters....and then cuss a blue streak. Bolt up another...and let her rip...more deafening boom...more cussing. I set my rifle on the bench...and looked over at his target. He had a group that was give or take "minute of trash can lid". I watched a few more shots go down range...and I decided to see if the fellow might like some help. I wandered over and politely asked if I might offer a bit of help. He had a pile of empties on the bench and several boxes of Federal factory stuff beside him. He declined my offer and went about his business.

I watched a bit longer to figure out the problem. He failed to properly shoulder the rifle...and was snatching the trigger something terrible...no doubt from flinch and anticipated blistering recoil. I sat down and began to shoot. He stopped shooting. I repeatedly put shot after shot in a 5/8" group at 100 yards. He collected his stuff and left. I moved my rifle over and looked at his group. I counted the holes. 68 of them...covering a target that was about 18" square. There was NO group but rather a pattern. He should have been doing much better as he had all high grade materials ....Browning A bolt...Leupold 4-12...and Federal factory ammo....shooting from sand bags. I would have expected an inch to two inches from that combination. Something was a miss for sure....and I'll never know if it was the gun...the scope mount...the shooter....the ammo....whatever....won't know.

The real issue was probably the shooter. He was a member of the hat on backwards...saggy pants....smart ass t-shirt crowd. I did gather from conversation that he and his brothers were going to Alaska to shoot moose...and he was there to get sighted in. Oh my...well...I do hope that he didn't get killed.

I generally do try to help if I can...regardless of how goofey the shooter seems. I won't push...but will offer. If I get turned down....well that is fine too. Left to my own...I shoot....off by myself....quitely .....putting one shot down range after another.... It normally takes me most of an hour...to arrive ...shoot 20...and pack up. I have to admit...I haven't ever seen anyone practice with a 338....while shooting that fast. After that many shots....that fellow must have had a helluva bruise on his shoulder.

Cheers
Mac.

 

[Owen]

Of course, that's not to say some older guys haven't driven me batty either. I shoot at a private range, and they do postal pistol matches. One day as I'm doing my thing, one of the older guys shows up and sets up the cd player for the range commands. So I start hearing "READY ON THE LEFT? READY ON THE RIGHT? THE LINE IS READY" over and over again... and of course, he's got it cranked up.

So your on a shooting range, with you know, guns going off, and that bothered you?

 

[c919]

I suspect in 90% of cases, if these people were alone you could open a friendly discussion and actually teach them something. It's the group mentality that shuts down rational input.

The most BS comes from the worst shooters and they tend to group up and reinforce each other.

Yup. Too true. I would be willing to wager that if one of these guys had been by themselves, we could have gotten along just fine. I'd also be willing to bet that some of the guys who I've had a great time with in the past would drive me up the wall with a group of their buddies.

 

[Justin Holder]

I'm 35yrs old and gave up on 99% of the human race but especially my own generation years ago. I'm probably too young to be this cynical but here we are.

I'm only 22 but I feel the same way brother.