My Diamondback is back from Colt, but I need some advice...

[Peter M. Eick]

Ok, I got my little diamondback back from Colt today. They fixed the bolt screw (head) that broke off and reset the timing so it locks up perfectly. They did not state it, but it looks like they also changed the vee spring out when they worked on it.

So, why do I need advice?

Well the new Single action trigger pull is 7 lbs 2 onz. The lawyers up at Colt would be proud of this one. My old vee spring gave me about a 3 lb single action trigger pull.

I looked at the vee spring with the grips off and it has the conventional vee shape, but about 2/3rds the way up toward the hammer, there is a bend in the top arm of the spring so it has an extra v shape. I should have taken a picture, but basically as you cock the hammer (with the grips off) you can see the vee spring compresses smoothly then the extra bend in the top part of the vee spring hits the lower arm of the vee spring and then the pressure on the vee spring jumps up. At the last bit of lockup, or when you actually pull the trigger, you are only compressing about the last 1.5" of the upper arm of the spring as the bottom half of the spring is now fully compressed.


So, my question is. What to do?
1) I don't think Colt will change anything on it, but I will call them tomorrow about it.
2) I was thinking about just leaving it cocked and seeing if that would take some of the tension off.
3) I can just replace the vee spring with a Wolff spring (I think this is within my limited smithing abilities).
4) I vaguely remember reading that you can stick a rod in the vee point and bend the spring a bit to stop this problem (I really don't want to do this).
5) Or finally just live with it.

Your suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Old Fuff]

1) I don't think Colt will change anything on it, but I will call them tomorrow about it.

That would be a good first step. I presume the single-action trigger pull is a MEASURED 7 pounds, plus.

2) I was thinking about just leaving it cocked and seeing if that would take some of the tension off.

You will die of old age before you notice the difference.

3) I can just replace the vee spring with a Wolff spring (I think this is within my limited smithing abilities).

A possibility, but I would try the phone call first.

4) I vaguely remember reading that you can stick a rod in the vee point and bend the spring a bit to stop this problem (I really don't want to do this).

No, you really don't The wrong size pin in the wrong place can cause more troubles then it's worth.

5) Or finally just live with it.

I wouldn't. If it's like you describe it isn't right.

I seriously wonder if the spring isn't just part of the story. Maybe they did something to the trigger and hammer too. If the spring alone was doing all of this it would be a bear to cock. Or maybe it is ...

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks for the advice.

1) Yes it is a measured weight with my Lyman digital gauge. I use it routinely and get repeateable results. Also the trigger pull feels like it is 7 lbs or so.

2) I was hopeful!

3) I will definately call tomorrow morning, but I am leaning toward wolff.

4) Thanks for the reinforcement. The pin approach just "feels" wrong.

5) I agree I won't live with it.


It is interesting. The cocking of the hammer in either single action or double action is just like it used to be. Very smooth and easy up until the vee spring closes or touches and then the weight goes up dramatically.

Yes it is a "bear" to cock in either double action or single action. It is a very distinct change. Easy to cock till the hammer is about 2/3rds the way back then "Wham" hard till it is fully cocked. The trigger is like pulling on a brick then it just cleanly breaks.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Bad news and bad news: leaving the revolver cocked won't help, and Wolff doesn't make V springs for Colt revolvers. I don't know who does—and would dearly like to know, if it need be said.

The good folks at http://www.cylinder-slide.com can reduce the single action pull to three pounds for you, but won't go below that.

My friendly local gunsmith, who's actually not qualified to work on Colt revolvers, had successfully reduced single action pulls on a couple of my Pythons. I lent him my copy of Kuhnhausen's book and told him not to rush.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Ok more information.

I pulled the beast back out of the safe and pulled the trigger gauge out.

Still 7 lbs 5 onzs SA.
Measured without the cylinder in. 5 lbs 13 onzs. Eick says hmmmm..... "I know the cylinder does not turn much in SA mode, but maybe just a bit???"

Noticed the cylinder does not spin easily anymore.
Dumped a BUNCH of Hoppes synthetic oil on the center axis on both ends. Worked it in.
Still 5 lbs 13 onzs with cylinder out.
Cylinder in now 6 lbs 2 onzs. Eick says "Hey, progress!", Hmmmmm.....

Pulls off the grips and looks very carefully. Very dry looking in there....
Dumps a BUNCH of Hoppes synthetic oil in every available creavase of the gun. (Yes I know this is absolute heresy, but hey, I work for an oil company and oil is cheap, so who cares (only $51.86 WTI for 42 gallons today by the way).
Dry fires it a bunch for say about 10 minutes with and without cylinder in.
Now with cylinder out, measures 4 lbs 5 onz.
Now with cylinder in, measures 4 lbs 6 onz
Now with oil dripping everywhere out of the gun, just dry fired it for a while in DA mode.

After another 10 minutes and lots of oil on the hands.
SA is at 4 lbs 4 onz.


My conclusion is that yes they changed the spring and yes they degreased and de-oiled the little beast. Since I asked them to clean it and lube it correctly it did not occur to me that it would not be lubed. Looking at it, it appeared to be lubed, but I don't think they really did it.

So, I will still call Colt tomorrow and discuss the problem and I am going to let my little baby "drip dry" tonight.

 

[Jim K]

I can't tell you what to do, and Old Fuff has given good advice.

But if that were my gun, I would pull that spring out and tune it. That would involve tapping it with a hammer to bend that extra V back more in line. That could be risky, but I would order a new spring from Gun Parts (www.gunpartscorp.com). The cost is around $10. That really should solve the problem, but if not, it would allow me to tinker with the present spring while knowing I had a replacement handy.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

In my experience with D-frame Colt's the mainsprings seem to very in hardness, and therefore "stiffness." That may be the problem with this particular spring. In the past some owners complained about the action being mushy, so maybe they went to a thicker/harder spring. Yes, you can reform the spring, but if it’s overdone you will have a great action and trigger pull, but the cartridges won’t go BANG! because of light firing pin hits. I am a bit surprised that Colt would let a Diamondback out with a 7-pound + trigger pull, but maybe that’s the way things are done these days. Half of that would be about right. In any case we’ll see what they say.

Edited to add: If the lockwork is otherwise correctly fitted the single action trigger pull can be tuned in under 15 minutes. I have seen experienced assemblers do it in 5 minutes or less.

 

[JoeHatley]

I vaguely remember reading that you can stick a rod in the vee point and bend the spring a bit to stop this problem

The "old school" way was to take a 1911 firing pin and place the tip in the "V" and then cock the hammer. It does work, but it's pretty imprecise. Best to have a spare V spring available before trying it. Last time I bought V springs (Trapper brand) they came from Brownells, but that's been quite a few years ago.

Good Luck...

Joe

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to order a few Vee springs next week to have as spares and then I will head to the range. If the gun does not go "bang" then I will try changing the vee spring out and see what happens.

I did call Colt and they said that it was within specs and that I should shoot it a bit and give them a call back if it does not smooth out. They could not explain why it was not lubed and so rough action though. They also did not really have a comment for me about how come it came back relatively dirty.

I guess that is the difference between a big corporation and the smaller smiths I have dealt with. All of the smaller smiths I have worked with over the years have always taken the time to at least wipe the grit and grime off the gun and give it at least the appearence of a quick cleaning.

I will not be able to get to the range for at least a week but I will let you all know how it works out when I get it there.

Thanks again.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I did call Colt and they said that it was within specs and that I should shoot it a bit and give them a call back if it does not smooth out. They could not explain why it was not lubed and so rough action though. They also did not really have a comment for me about how come it came back relatively dirty.

Now you know why Colt isn't still in the revolver business: it just can't compete.

 

[JNewell]

I have seen quite a few new S&Ws that come from the factory totally dry. Proper lubrication is often almost like a free trigger job.

Ya wonders what they got against oil???

 

[Standing Wolf]

Here's a recent painting of my Diamondback in .22 long rifle on a bowl of rocks. I'd like to find the identical gun in .38 special, but so far, no success.

 

[carebear]

Hmmmm, a 'back in the rocks.