My epiphany! I've been setting up my carbide dies all wrong!

[pert near]

I recently bought a .40 S&W pistol so right away I ordered a RCBS 3-die carbide set. I've been loading & shooting & enjoying my .40 & hand loads for a few months. The instructions were getting in the way in the die box so I took them out & threw them down on the bench. Later I did something very unusual, I started reading them. According to RCBS in regards to carbide dies, & I quote:

"The shell holder should never strike the bottom of the die."​

What I have always done when FL sizing is have the shell holder contact the die & then a bit more to take the spring out of the press. This is my method with all FL sizer dies. I have several carbide dies & never treated them any differently. Is this "no-touch" rule true for all carbide dies besides RCBS?

I guess an old handloader dog can learn something new!

 

[Jim Watson]

The carbide insert is hard but brittle. They want to avoid you ramming it against the shellholder and cracking the carbide. Sounds like you have gotten away with it so far.

 

[jmorris]

I adjust size dies so the rounds are sized "just enough". What's "just enough"? To correctly fit a case gauge, chamber or hold a bullet with correct neck tension, depending on what I am loading. Mechanically binding a machine isn't ever on my list of things to do but I have had to machine dies so I could lower them before.

 

[hdwhit]

pert near wrote:
Is this "no-touch" rule true for all carbide dies besides RCBS?

I don't have dies from every manufacturer, but for the ones I am familiar with, Yes.

For example, the instructions for my Lee 9mm carbide sizer die say the ram should be brought to the top of its stroke and the die screwed in until it touches the shell holder and the retaining nut screwed down.

The reason every manufacturer I'm familiar with says to adjust their dies so that the press does not "cam-over" using carbide dies is that the cam-over produces a sudden shock which can cause the carbide sizer ring to break.

The great thing about a site like THR is that is gives everyone an opportunity to share and learn in an environment (largely) free of judgment and ridicule.

 

[hdwhit]

pert near wrote:
What I have always done when FL sizing is have the shell holder contact the die & then a bit more to take the spring out of the press. This is my method with all FL sizer dies.

Same here.

When I inherited my grandmother's S&W revolver, I immediately wanted to start reloading for it. But, I knew I wasn't going to be shooting it a lot, so I bought a Lee Speed Die (no longer made). It was less expensive than the other dies because it used a single die body and screw-in/drop-in inserts to take care of sizing, decapping, expanding and seating. It is tedious and slow having to reconfigure the die for each step, but it works perfectly well.

I had been reloading rifle cartridges for years, so I didn't bother to read the directions and just raised the ram of the press to the top, screwed in the sizer insert, screwed the die into the press until it touched the ram, drew the ram down and turned the die in another 1/16 turn and set the lock ring. A friend noted what I was doing wrong and called my attention to it after I had only loaded 12 rounds, so I "got away with it" without breaking my carbide sizer.

 

[Starter52]

For pistol brass I go with the thickness of a nickel between the die and shell holder. For straight wall revolver brass I go with two nickels.

 

[ATLDave]

As hdwit noted, Lee carbide dies instruct you to install the die so that it does touch the shell holder. http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol4.pdf I've loaded tens - perhaps hundreds - of thousands of rounds with Lee carbide dies set up this way in my Lee turret without difficulty of any sort.

 

[Blue68f100]

When the carbide dies were first released in the 70's that was the warning. Back then the carbide ring would contact the shell holder. So if you you loaded it up you could crack them. Today most all are recessed a few 1/1000's so it does not contact the shell holder. I run my down till I contact the shell holder with no brass, set it and go for pistol brass.

 

[someguy2800]

I screw them down till it just touches but is not caming over on them.

 

[Sunray]

"...never strike..." Is not the same as 'just kiss'. You shouldn't be slamming the ram anywhere though.

 

[cfullgraf]

When the carbide dies were first released in the 70's that was the warning. Back then the carbide ring would contact the shell holder. So if you you loaded it up you could crack them. Today most all are recessed a few 1/1000's so it does not contact the shell holder. I run my down till I contact the shell holder with no brass, set it and go for pistol brass.

If you compare an old (1980 vintage or so) with a current carbide die, you can see that the carbide ring is recessed just a little from the end of the die.

This is basically how I set my carbide sizing dies up. Generally, with a case in the die, I will see a sliver of light between the shell holder and the die indicating the shell holder is not contacting the die.

This is difficult to see with a progressive so I lightly kiss the shell plate with the sizing die and hope there is enough flex in the system so that the carbide ring does not get loaded up.

 

[Shaq]

I adjust the carbide die to barely touch the shellholder before sizing. There is some play in the press mechanism, so when actually sizing cases, the shellholder will not touch the die. I've found that when I adjust the die so it doesn't touch the shellholder, the cases are not fully resized when actually resizing.

 

[Nature Boy]

are there a lot of carbide dies breaking out there?

 

[readyeddy]

I've had cases that failed to feed because they were not completely resized. Happened to me with 9mm and 40 S&W using Lee carbide dies. Since then, I cam over maybe a half turn after touching the shell holder. I'm not recommending this practice, and I don't even know if I've broken any carbide dies. Would it be obvious?

 

[HOWARD J]

Been reloading over 40 years--my resizing dies always
touch the shell holder---never had a problem yet

 

[gojones]

With carbide, I just kiss the shell holder. No camover.

 

[Swampman]

are there a lot of carbide dies breaking out there?

Yep!
It usually happens when cast bullet loaders are trying to pry the carbide ring out of handgun FCD's...

 

[Walkalong]

I always set them up so there is a hair of daylight between the die and the shell plate when actually sizing a case. Redding told me that was too far down and that was the reason their die was leaving a line around the case head from the bottom of the carbide ring. Baloney. I bought another brand sizer, set it up exactly the same (How I had been doing them all for decades) and it worked just fine, no line where a poorly rounded carbide ring on their die was digging into the case.

 

[entropy]

Like someguy2800 and gojones, I just let it touch, but not cam on it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

are there a lot of carbide dies breaking out there?

I have never heard of one breaking but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Like said by Walkalong, I leave a bit of daylight between the bottom of the die and the shell plate.

 

[Walkalong]

Even with the ones with a protective lip.