My first failure to fire....

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My first inclination is to recommend a new mainspring. And this is no joke.I regularly replace mainsprings. On old vintage military rifles, I put in new mainsprings that approximate the mil spec weight. I found extra, extra power mainsprings caused issues. Such as deformed the nose of a M1903 cocking piece.

This pistol round squibbed, put a bullet in the throat of the cylinder.


SobhuKC.jpg

looks well hit

xXFMOxJ.jpg


However, the pistol had at least 40 to 60 thousand PPC level rounds with Bullseye pistol powder and Federal small pistol primers through it by the previous owner. I was shooting it with a ball powder in cold weather. I replaced the old mainspring and all those squibs and hangfires went away.

I reamed the pockets too deep on this LC 308 and the stuff would not go bang in my M70 during a 600 yard match. Primer looks well hit.

nwTXKGc.jpg

Took the same stuff to a 100 yard reduced match and all the misfired rounds went bang in my M1a. I am sure the ignition system is more robust and the firing pin protrusion was more.

I have had lots of failure to fire over the decades. Sometimes it could have been not seating the primers deep enough. High primers are the most common cause of misfires, according to CCI. The anvil has to be firmly seated, and the gap between cup and anvil set. I just do it by feel. If the anvil is dangling in the air, the first hit will likely seat the primer enough that a second try will set it off. And something that is not discussed, or hardly, is firing pin offset.

HN9vY7Z.jpg

The further the firing pin hit is from the tip of the anvil, the more energy it takes to ignite a primer, to the point, the primer will not go bang.

Ng7KD4h.jpg

I regularly rail about poorly built firearms, and a firearm with significant primer hit offset will have more ignition issues as the mainspring looses tension, as the firing pin tip wears, in cold weather, or congealed oils in the mechanism.

Want to experience lots of misfires? Shoot 22 lr in competition pistols.

I put on an UltraDot later

P83Nc4M.jpg


BNUffjS.jpg

It is seldom that in a Bullseye Pistol match that someone does not have an alibi in timed fire or rapid fire with a 22 LR pistol. It is very frustrating when the rounds do not go off. Incidentally, recently attended a four day Smallbore Regional, and the dud round boxes had many rounds that did not go bang. The Juniors shooting 3 P had been taught by their coaches to put those rounds in the dud box.

Somewhere on my computer is a picture of a glass jar full of alibi rounds from a Bullseye Pistol Range. When a shooter raises their hand and reports an alibi, a Range Officer goes over, verifies the alibi, and if it is a defective round, takes it and hands it to the Range Master. Who inspects it and then places it in a glass jar. There were a lot of 22 lr's in that jar, with 38's, 45 ACP's, etc.

When you find a lot of 22lr that reliably goes bangy in your 22 lr pistol, you wish you had purchased a lifetime supply, because anxiety and misfortune are only a new lot away.
 
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takes it and hands it to the Range Master. Who inspects it and then places it in a glass jar.

Hi, Slamfire. Just wondering why they put it in a glass jar; seems like there may be better options?
 
Hi, Slamfire. Just wondering why they put it in a glass jar; seems like there may be better options?

Most likely the glass jar was the container that was available that day, and no one has dropped it since.
 
Great wright up @Slamfire thanks for that.

Took same rifle out this last weekend, and ran the rest of the loads I made up, no issues.

I can't say that I could not have messed anything up. It did have powder, it looked about right, but I did not weigh it.....just never crossed my mind to. I guess I could not have seated it all the way, but generally the way I load is one at a time, and I set in groups of 5 on a wood top bench, I would have thought it would not have wanted to sit there true if I had not got it seated....but it only takes a smidge.

Pretty anal in my reloading, and also pretty slow....just a guy I could have screwed it up.

With everything else in that "batch" working fine I would call it a just one of those things.
 
Took same rifle out this last weekend, and ran the rest of the loads I made up, no issues.

I can't say that I could not have messed anything up. It did have powder, it looked about right, but I did not weigh it.....just never crossed my mind to. I guess I could not have seated it all the way, but generally the way I load is one at a time, and I set in groups of 5 on a wood top bench, I would have thought it would not have wanted to sit there true if I had not got it seated....but it only takes a smidge.

Pretty anal in my reloading, and also pretty slow....just a guy I could have screwed it up.

With everything else in that "batch" working fine I would call it a just one of those things.

I would agree that it is just one of those things. We lack the industrial X Ray, sound penetration devices that might give insight as to what is going on inside the primer, or the firearm. I was very careful about match ammunition, used gauges, seated primers by hand, kept the firearm clean, including the firing pin channel and firing pins. Still recall a couple of rounds that misfired and I wanted to know if it was the primer. I de primed the cases, put the primer on a stove burner, with a cast iron pan as an armored dome, and put the range on low. The dented primer went bang with enough heat, so I know the primer cake was not dudded, and it had an anvil. That primer had multiple strikes before I stopped trying to shoot it. Maybe the primer cake cracked between the cup and anvil, I don't know. But these things happen.

Still, if you encounter more misfires, buy a new mainspring, or buy one now. It cannot hurt, springs take a set, lose power with age.
 
Maybe it was not a glass jar.......

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alibi rounds. Most are obviously 22 lr, not all show firing pin indentations, might have been failure to feeds, failure to chamber.
 
I would agree that it is just one of those things. We lack the industrial X Ray, sound penetration devices that might give insight as to what is going on inside the primer, or the firearm. I was very careful about match ammunition, used gauges, seated primers by hand, kept the firearm clean, including the firing pin channel and firing pins. Still recall a couple of rounds that misfired and I wanted to know if it was the primer. I de primed the cases, put the primer on a stove burner, with a cast iron pan as an armored dome, and put the range on low. The dented primer went bang with enough heat, so I know the primer cake was not dudded, and it had an anvil. That primer had multiple strikes before I stopped trying to shoot it. Maybe the primer cake cracked between the cup and anvil, I don't know. But these things happen.

Still, if you encounter more misfires, buy a new mainspring, or buy one now. It cannot hurt, springs take a set, lose power with age.

Yup the gun is of 60's vintage, and I am not sure of its use before it landed in my grubby little mitts, and a spring is cheap enough.....just start looking. I decided I need two pins for a couple model 60's I have, both old as the hills as well. You can find the "new style" all day long, but the old style much harder.

Pulled the roll pin from the bolt and pulled the pin and roller, dunked in the sonic cleaner, hope that a good down to the basics cleaning will help the 60's. If it is not too hot today I will give them a shot.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Maybe it was not a glass jar.......

View attachment 1090602

View attachment 1090603

alibi rounds. Most are obviously 22 lr, not all show firing pin indentations, might have been failure to feeds, failure to chamber.

I read an article on the why's of rimfire failures and the top one is how the ammo is stored. Seems that if the boxes get "banged around" a bit the primer compound can come loose from the edge, and if your pin hits that empty spot no go. This is why if you give it a little turn and try smacking it on a new spot you might get a bang.

I think the article went on to say someone lost an entire shipment due to something happening in shipping, accident with the truck or something.
 
I read an article on the why's of rimfire failures and the top one is how the ammo is stored. Seems that if the boxes get "banged around" a bit the primer compound can come loose from the edge, and if your pin hits that empty spot no go. This is why if you give it a little turn and try smacking it on a new spot you might get a bang.

I think the article went on to say someone lost an entire shipment due to something happening in shipping, accident with the truck or something.

Another poster on this site sectioned 22 lr rim heads and the pictures clearly revealed un even distribution of priming compound. Empty areas were visible. Of course I have tried rotating the case so the firing pin hits another side of the rim, and usually that works. Sometimes it does not. And I always give a centerfire case another try, rarely does it go off, but it is always worth trying.
 
Another poster on this site sectioned 22 lr rim heads and the pictures clearly revealed un even distribution of priming compound. Empty areas were visible. Of course I have tried rotating the case so the firing pin hits another side of the rim, and usually that works. Sometimes it does not. And I always give a centerfire case another try, rarely does it go off, but it is always worth trying.

If I am remembering the article correctly, and that is a big IF I want to say a shipment from a big company had been in an over the road crash, the boxes are ok and they got sent to the stores. The rounds from that shipment had something over a 50% failure rate, and that is huge....as how many people just toss the box and say I am never going to buy XYZ ammo again the entire box was nothing but misfires. It got tracked down to that crash and the thought was that with the shock it just rattled the primer from around the edge with the huge shock the truck took.

This was years ago and in a magazine.....I am sure I am forgetting something along the lines, but I do remember the crash and the damaged rimfire ammo alone as the center fire that was on the same truck was just fine.
 
In 55 years of reloading I can count on one hand the misfires . #3 came from CCi pistol primers ,never did go off in any of the two pistols I shot back then . One LRP and I know why it's age . I had decided to use some EARLY WWl primers up that I had gotten hen buying a storage garage contents . Every body else went Boom but one Didn't . Yes I scrubbed the P out of My Rifle hot water and soap ,along with solvent and air gun dried . What I can clearly recall even after the inordinate amount of reloading Shotshells I used to do , Never had a failure to ignite one of those .
Lost a firing pin in one O/U another firing pin in a Semi Auto but Never had a single shotshell fail to fire .
Now I had a few squib loads and shot dribble crimp failures but that's another story and we KNOW whose fault those were :oops:
 
My first inclination is to recommend a new mainspring. And this is no joke.I regularly replace mainsprings. On old vintage military rifles, I put in new mainsprings that approximate the mil spec weight. I found extra, extra power mainsprings caused issues. Such as deformed the nose of a M1903 cocking piece.

This pistol round squibbed, put a bullet in the throat of the cylinder.


View attachment 1090288

looks well hit

View attachment 1090289


However, the pistol had at least 40 to 60 thousand PPC level rounds with Bullseye pistol powder and Federal small pistol primers through it by the previous owner. I was shooting it with a ball powder in cold weather. I replaced the old mainspring and all those squibs and hangfires went away.

I reamed the pockets too deep on this LC 308 and the stuff would not go bang in my M70 during a 600 yard match. Primer looks well hit.

View attachment 1090290

Took the same stuff to a 100 yard reduced match and all the misfired rounds went bang in my M1a. I am sure the ignition system is more robust and the firing pin protrusion was more.

I have had lots of failure to fire over the decades. Sometimes it could have been not seating the primers deep enough. High primers are the most common cause of misfires, according to CCI. The anvil has to be firmly seated, and the gap between cup and anvil set. I just do it by feel. If the anvil is dangling in the air, the first hit will likely seat the primer enough that a second try will set it off. And something that is not discussed, or hardly, is firing pin offset.

View attachment 1090291

The further the firing pin hit is from the tip of the anvil, the more energy it takes to ignite a primer, to the point, the primer will not go bang.

View attachment 1090292

I regularly rail about poorly built firearms, and a firearm with significant primer hit offset will have more ignition issues as the mainspring looses tension, as the firing pin tip wears, in cold weather, or congealed oils in the mechanism.

Want to experience lots of misfires? Shoot 22 lr in competition pistols.

I put on an UltraDot later

View attachment 1090293


View attachment 1090294

It is seldom that in a Bullseye Pistol match that someone does not have an alibi in timed fire or rapid fire with a 22 LR pistol. It is very frustrating when the rounds do not go off. Incidentally, recently attended a four day Smallbore Regional, and the dud round boxes had many rounds that did not go bang. The Juniors shooting 3 P had been taught by their coaches to put those rounds in the dud box.

Somewhere on my computer is a picture of a glass jar full of alibi rounds from a Bullseye Pistol Range. When a shooter raises their hand and reports an alibi, a Range Officer goes over, verifies the alibi, and if it is a defective round, takes it and hands it to the Range Master. Who inspects it and then places it in a glass jar. There were a lot of 22 lr's in that jar, with 38's, 45 ACP's, etc.

When you find a lot of 22lr that reliably goes bangy in your 22 lr pistol, you wish you had purchased a lifetime supply, because anxiety and misfortune are only a new lot away.
Because I've never tried, where would one source old military rifle main springs for a 7.7 jap or 6.5x55 sweed. The one I probably need right now is a marlin 1895 for my 357.
 
Because I've never tried, where would one source old military rifle main springs for a 7.7 jap or 6.5x55 sweed. The one I probably need right now is a marlin 1895 for my 357.

I always looked at Wolff springs first https://www.gunsprings.com/RIFLES & SHOTGUNS/cID2 I also learned, don't go for the extra power springs, find the one that is closest to military/factory. Wolff claims factory is 19 lb for a M1896 Mauser and I ordered the super strong, thirty something pound striker spring. Almost had to take a running sprint to get the bolt to close. I called Wolff, and they said that spring was developed because customers wanted it. Eh Gad!
 
I always looked at Wolff springs first https://www.gunsprings.com/RIFLES & SHOTGUNS/cID2 I also learned, don't go for the extra power springs, find the one that is closest to military/factory. Wolff claims factory is 19 lb for a M1896 Mauser and I ordered the super strong, thirty something pound striker spring. Almost had to take a running sprint to get the bolt to close. I called Wolff, and they said that spring was developed because customers wanted it. Eh Gad!
Blowback pistols I always order the build packs. A couple of Euro PPK knock-off .380's have needed the stronger springs.
 
I have the old round Lee primer tray and when i dump them in and orient them i run a magnifier glass over them to check for anvils and priming compound. Never found any defects. Just lucky.
 
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