My first reloads

[Wildyams]

after months of gathering components.. reading.. and building my bench..

i have finally reloaded my first 10 shells.

2 of them i know i messed up for sure.. 1 is way over crimped, the other is seated too deep

but I do have a question about the other 8.

I'm reloading 9mm, 5.2 grains of unique under a 124 grain Speer GDHP

My manual states the COAL tested was 1.120"
most of mine fall at about 1.09 with the shortest at 1.075 and the longest at 1.101

Do those fall in the realm of being good to shoot?

on a side note, the bullet that was way over crimped, can i just use a bullet puller and resize the brass? or should i just throw that one to the side and call a learning experience?

 

[evan price]

Try and pull the bullet if you want- when I had the exact same problem with my first 9mm I tried and tried to get it out with a hammer-type puller, and it would not move. If it won't pull out, try pulling it with a pair of side cutting pliers with the case in your press' shell holder. If nothing will get it out, trash it.

Don't make the mistake I did, of dropping it in a drawer, then finding it a few days later, forgetting what it was, and loading and shooting it. Bad things can happen.

 

[JCisHe]

Wild,

How in the world did you get variances like that? You are supposed to set the depth and seat them all the same... are you reading the instructions?

Do you know ANYBODY who has reloaded for some time who can teach you? I'm just saying... it's your weapon, fingers, life, etc... but for God's sake ...

Evan? What in the world? Pull the bullet with "side cutting pliers"?!?

Wild, pull every one of the cartridges you loaded, take your decapper out, try to resize them, and start from scratch. VERY carefully study your manuals and learn to adjust your dies correctly then, and only then, should you be reloading live rounds.

DO TEST ROUNDS FIRST ... dummies.

I'm not yelling at you as much as scolding you friend. This is serious business... reloading. It's serious.

That's my .02 cents.

Regards,
Beau

 

[RoostRider]

I too have to wonder how it is you would have such wild variance in the COAL.... are you loading one round at a time in a single stage press? adjusting dies as you load? or do you have your press set up wrong (it should bottom out on every pull of the lever, making this type of problem impossible).

Also, shells go in shotguns, cartridges go in handguns.....

Check into what is wrong with your scenario before continuing.... let us know what is wrong....

 

[Wildyams]

thanks beau, thats exactly why I post here, so I can get slapped if i do something wrong before I myself up.

I did read the instructions and followed them. My first bullet (the one seated too deep) I didn't back out the seating depth screw enough, so I then backed that off a bit. The second case still had a somewhat noticeable flare or belling, so I screwed the die in a little further (a little too far, because the next case was the over crimped one) the next 2 bullets i adjusted the depth screw again because they were a little on the short side 1.075-1.085. the last 5 measured out at 1.097, 1.10, 1.099, 1.10, 1.101. I'm guessing this variation could be because i did not tighten the locking ring down very tight, due to the fact i was changing things.

whats an acceptable variation in COAL?

I will go with the dummy round idea, I just got excited, lucky it was dark out by the time i finished.

Roost- yes it is a single stage, yes i was adjusting it after each of the first 6 cartridges. lo siento for calling them shells, i have been reloading shotgun rounds for the past year. I'm finding that to be a lot easier with no dies to change and adjust.

 

[JCisHe]

Wild,

You want to go with minimum load data and recommended COAL. What you do from there is work UP to the most accurate target load. Unless, you want SD loads which, in my opinion, you shouldn't be starting with.

That usually entails a hotter load and being new to reloading + hot loads = blown up gun.

YOU CAN'T USE THIS DATA! And this is ONLY FOR 9MM... But here's what I did...

I got some Berry's rnd ns dbl struck 115 gr, CCI SPP, casings, and bullseye.

I then worked from the recommended COAL and the minimum charge. I did 10 of each starting at 4.2 and 1.165 COAL, then 4.3 and 1.165, all the way to 4.6...

Later I called Berry's. They gave me a deeper depth to seat the round so I seated it to 1.140 and then did 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5. BINGO 4.3 was the winner.

I did 10 rounds of each, individual steps, very carefully checking every factor, seating LONGGGGGG first and then gently sinking the bullet deeper.

Once I got the seating the depth I backed out my seating plug, all the way, and then followed the instructions for my crimp. A LIGHT taper crimp... barely noticeable. It ONLY takes the bell out and snugs the casing to the bullet.

I then brought the press to full stroke and lowered the seating plug until it snugged to the proper seating depth and locked everything down. Then, I loaded some rounds and measured every one of the first 10 to make sure that the length was good.

There should be NO variance or VERY VERY minimal. On a lee turret press I got some variance but on a single stage, which is what you SHOULD be using right now, you should get absolutely none.

Yeah man, I'm glad it was dark. Seating deeper raises pressure dramatically.

What manuals do you have? Have you read them all the way through? Is anybody working with you?

Regards,
Beau

 

[Sport45]

Gold Dots are kind of pricey for plinking and reloading training, but if that's all you got it's okay.

Here's what I suggest for setting up your dies. Start with a store bought cartridge that is similar to what you are trying to reload.

Chose the proper shellholder and place it on your ram. Raise the ram all the way. Screw the sizing die in until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram and screw the die in 1/2 turn more. Put a fired case in the shell holder and raise the ram all the way. You should feel a bump at the top of the stroke if your press is one that "cams over". With the newly sized case still in the die turn the lock ring down until it firmly contacts the press. Tighten the setscrew on the lock ring if it has one. Lower the ram and take the die and lockring out of your press as a unit. It's done.

With no die in the press and the newly-sized case in the shell holder raise the ram to the top if its stroke. Screw the expanding/powder die in until yuo feel resistance as the funnel enters the case. Lower the ram and screw the die in 1/2 turn. Raise the ram, then lower it to inspect the case. Repeat as needed until you have the desired flare. Set the lock ring with the case in the die.

With no die in the press, put the store bought cartridge in the shell holder and raise it to the top of the stroke. Back the seating stemm all the way out of your seating/crimping die. Raise the store bought cartridge to the top of the stroke. Turn the seating die in until you feel it contact the top of the case. Turn the seating stem in until you feel it contact the bullet. Back the ram down a hair and turn the seating die in 1/8 turn. Set the lock ring and you are done.

You'll probably need to make some small adjustments as you get going.

Be safe and have fun!

 

[243winxb]

whats an acceptable variation in COAL?

.005" on a single stage press, it will be more on a progressive.

the bullet that was way over crimped, can i just use a bullet puller and resize the brass? or should i just throw that one to the side and call a learning experience?

The wall thickness of the brass can be thinned when over crimping. Most times its ok to reuse the brass after sizing and expanding. It may just get a crack at the case mouth before other cases.

 

[243winxb]

COAL

There should be NO variance or VERY VERY minimal.

Not true. This will vary because of the difference in bullet ogive and seating stem fit to the bullet. .005" is common between rounds, more if using a progressive press. From Lee website.

Seating depth variations

There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug.

Another possible cause for bullet seating depth variation is seating and crimping at the same time when trying to apply a firm crimp to untrimmed cases. Variation in case length also causes variation in the amount of crimp applied. Long cases get a heavier crimp than short ones. When seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is formed as the bullet is seated into the case. The crimp will form sooner on a long case, and therefore the bullet will not be seated as deeply. The solution is to seat and crimp in a separate step (the Lee Factory Crimp die is good for this) and/or trim cases to a uniform length.

The amount of force required to cycle a progressive press varies with the number of cases in the shell plate. When the shell plate is full, it is harder to lower the lever than when there are one or two cases present. This can lead to variation in cartridge overall length because there are different loads placed on the working parts of the press. When the shell plate is full, seating depth will be slightly long, because the load is higher and all of the clearances are taken up. With the shell plate nearly empty, the load is not great enough to squeeze out these clearances, and the seating depth is short.

The Lee seating die taper crimps first, then the deeper you go into the die you hit the roll crimper. Taper crimp fro auto, roll for revolvers.

 

[Cowboygunsmith]

After years of working in gun shops and repairing weapons the most dangeros thing out there is a reloader!!!! That said the greatest part of shooting is realoading and getting the round that works the best in your gun!!! No one should ever go it alone to learn how to reload. There are hundreds of great people who are very very good at it and are more than willing to teach a newcommer please for your own safety and the safety of those areound you get someone to teach you the right way.

 

[JCisHe]

243winxb,

I can get VERY minimal almost unmeasurable variance by taking my time and completing the press strokes. I agree that Lee progressives and especially the cheaper turret have sloppy tolerances though.

But let me ask you, "shouldn't this guy work towards perfection?" I think so. I mean, it's only his pistol or someone else's eye if he doesn't learn right.

Regards,
Beau

 

[Walkalong]

My manual states the COAL tested was 1.120"
most of mine fall at about 1.09 with the shortest at 1.075 and the longest at 1.101

Do those fall in the realm of being good to shoot?

5.2 Grs of Unique and a 124 Gr GD @ 1.120 O.A.L. is the start load in Speer #13, so they will be OK to shoot at that O.A.L. Get it adjusted properly before you use any more powder or make a larger batch.

First get the O.A.L. adjusted with a dummy round.

Adjust the seater die up so it is not crimping and get the bullet seated correctly by adjusting the seater stem.

Then run the seater stem way up so it won't touch the bullet and get your crimp adjusted by adjusting the die down.

Lock the die down there and then run the seater stem down to touch the bullet, and an 1/8 to 1/4 turn more.

That should be very close. You can tweak it a hair from there if you want. Just remember the relationship between the crimp and seating process of the die when you make any adjustments.

A .005 spread on O.A.L. is usually doable in 9MM with a decent fit of the seater stem to the bullet.

 

[243winxb]

"shouldn't this guy work towards perfection?" I think so. I mean, it's only his pistol or someone else's eye if he doesn't learn right.

Yes, everything perfect, would be nice. These are Wildyams first 10 rounds, he is learning how to use his equipment. His powder charge is 10% below maximum if you look at the Alliant website data for his bullet and powder choice. So that is a wise move on his part. If the bullet is seated way to deep or over crimper the pressure curve should be at a safe level. Sure the loaded round may not feed in his gun, and the COAL will need to be adjusted. Trial and error. His last 5 loaded rounds

the last 5 measured out at 1.097, 1.10, 1.099, 1.10, 1.101.

were not to bad with a difference of .004" and the seating stem not locked/tightened. If the rounds chamber, i would shoot them. If they don't chamber, pull the bullets, start over.

 

[JackFunTeach]

Rookie to Rookie

Howdie Wildyams,
I, too, am new to reloading. I have been reloading about 1 month now. I just wanted to share my learning curve.

I went thru the same overwhelming informantion that you are dealing with, too. At many times, I have felt like a "Forest...Forest Gump." There's a lot of stuff that goes on. To date, I "seem" to have my 9mm act together, but discover a lot of little idiosyncracies and peculiarites, each time I reload.

The above insights seem to be from a lot of experience. That's the one point that I wanted to add. The first thing that I did was get a reloading mentor. Ron, a range officer, and a reloader of 20 years plus, coached me thru each little question/misunderstanding. He patiently imparted all the little details that finally helped me get the big picture. For instance, why is the OAL important, how to avoid squibs, why I shouldn't force another round after a suspected squib, how to set up the dies, what type of powder, what's the difference between magnum primers and regular primers, etc.. His patient coaching made the difference between me blowing my gun/fingers up and finally getting the "perfect" load that is making my groups go from 3 inch groups to 1 inch groups!!! Long story short, I have learned to get a coach/mentor that you can have as a go to guy when not certain. Even then, asking many sources about uncertainties is also good. No such thing as a monopoly on good ideas. Then, when actually doing stuff, I always try to error on the side of caution.
I enjoy reloading a lot. I have made 3,000 rounds of 9mm 124 grain hornady bullets and 115 Berry Manufacturing. My OAL lengh with 124 grain is 1.15 (no variations...and I mean, it is balls on every time I digitally calibrate), and I use Unique with 4.7 grains. For IDPA, I'm going to stay with the heavier bullet to make power factor.

By the way, Unique Powder is controversial, but seems to work for me.

 

[something vague]

As 243winxb said, his last 5 rounds are good to go. I would think that they would chamber with no problem, as long as the crimp isn't too tight. Remember, the 9mm round headspaces off the case mouth so if there is too much crimp you are esentially removing the means of headspacing of that round. The variance you have in OAL in those last 5 rounds is acceptable. I would agree, go shoot the things and see how they work.

 

[Ky Larry]

Some very good advise here. Two things I'd advise. Make sure your die lock rings are tight. Also, I seat and crimp pistol ammo in 2 seperate steps. You don't have to but I always do.

 

[SASS#23149]

+1 on seating and crimping in 2 different steps.die adjustments are soooo much easier when only one variable changes per adjustment.Sure,it takes a little longer if using a single stage press,but it's worth it imho.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Wild, +1 on not seating and crimping in the same step. When I first set up my Dillon for 9mm years ago I used a factory round to adjust my seating depth. My attitude was/is that I don't plan on match shooting with a Glock 19 so the factory proven COAL was good enough for plinking ammo. Don't worry about making mistakes, there isn't a reloader out there that hasn't spent hours trying to figure out where he went wrong in the process.

I see you and I live in the same town. If you ever want to try a few different components let me know, maybe I can give you a few different things to try at no cost.

 

[evan price]

JCisHe:Evan? What in the world? Pull the bullet with "side cutting pliers"?!?

Yep.

Remove the die from your press, leaving just the empty hole. Put the case in your shell holder and raise the ram up. Grab the bullet right above the case with a pair of sidecutting pliers, or Vice-Grips if you have 'em. Then lower the ram while holding the pliers against the top of the press. Ruins the bullet, but should pull it out of the case.

 

[MikeS.]

I'm new into reloading as well, about 2 months now. I've read and heard from several others that 9mm and .40s&w can have a big pressure spike when loaded even .30 too deep.

 

[Walkalong]

Remove the die from your press, leaving just the empty hole. Put the case in your shell holder and raise the ram up. Grab the bullet right above the case with a pair of sidecutting pliers, or Vice-Grips if you have 'em. Then lower the ram while holding the pliers against the top of the press. Ruins the bullet, but should pull it out of the case.

Same basic way I do it on the occasion I need to pull one or two. Works like a champ, but does ruin the bullet. These were used to set a crimp, and then pulled to save the brass. I usually set up the crimp live though. I just mark the first one or two that are not right, and don't use them for chrono or target work.

You can see the amount of taper crimp on the Berrys 125 Gr TrFP. About as healthy a crimp as I will use on them.

 

[RoostRider]

I'm new into reloading as well, about 2 months now. I've read and heard from several others that 9mm and .40s&w can have a big pressure spike when loaded even .30 too deep.

I should say so!!!!!.... man, that's closing on 1/3"!!!!! how could you possibly end up that much too deep?

 

[Seedtick]

Hey RR, I bet he meant .030"

ST

 

[Wildyams]

okay, my first reloads, attempt two. (does this make them.. my second reloads?)

still sticking with the 124 grain GDHP, with 0.0 grains of everything under it. (the reason i'm using gold dots is because its the only speer bullets I have and I have the Speer reloading manual, so I'm trying to match it instead of guessing how to reload hornady with speer data)

I was aiming for the COAL of 1.120

here is what I got.
1- seated too deep, didn't bother measuring
2- 1.115
3- 1.1145
4- 1.118
5- 1.117
6- 1.120
7- 1.105
8- 1.118
9- 1.119
10- 1.119

#7 I squeezed in my fingers to see if it would move at all, does that mean I need a little more crimp?

does that sound better than my first go around?

This time around I seated and crimped in two separate stages. If I decide to keep doing it in two separate stages, should I get a factory crimp die? Whats the difference between the factory crimp die and the one I have?

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

-Scott

 

[RoostRider]

Hey RR, I bet he meant .030"

ST

Which is exactly why you should never get load/safe data from an internet forum....

I'm sure everyone means well, but I cringe everytime someone asks for or gives out load data and safety limits..... even something as innocuous as a typo can cause big problems