My local public gun range may close... looking for solutions.

[Mad_Max]

Howdy. The town I live in has a municipal airport that was originally built as a Army Air Force training facility during WWII. As such, it has a berm that was designed for target training. After the base was closed it was given to the city which has used it as a municipal airport ever since. Likewise the berm has been in use as a public gun range (with no supervision, or fees, or anything) ever since. Keep in mind this is on the edge of a tiny airport surrounded by farmland... there are no houses or future land development to worry about. The berm is U shaped and is (im guessing) 12 feet tall probably 200 ft log and maybe 100 feet deep (side length). Shooting direction is south. Some time ago, the city built a storage building (sheetmetal) approx 200 ft west of the range. Well somebody (or bodies) decided to take a few shots at the building and now the city is saying that their insurance co will make them shut the range down if they cant protect the building. Attached is an aerial view. Like I said this is an un-monitored public range. Suggestions?

 

[shoobe01]

Might ask the police how much effort they put into determining shot direction, or if they just assumed holes=gun range. The ONLY way I can even sorta think of arguing with the insurance company is if in fact the shots came from the road, or elsewhere entirely. Know a few places that have gotten out of being shut down etc. by proving the troublemakers were not on range property, etc.

But, very likely: screwed. Insurance companies are companies, can do what the hell they want. Now they know there's a free-for-all range, they will probably not care and continue wanting to charge way too damned much, so the city will shut it down.

You could look into the cost of range insurance alone (other members here will have info on this, I do not off the top of my head) but... it will be a cost. And even range-insurance-friendly types will probably not much like that it has no monitoring, no control, etc. so it may be inordinately expensive or impossible.

 

[somethingbenign]

I'd start with monitoring if that is quaifies as protected per the insurance, just a couple cameras on the way in. Extending the berm is probably cost prohibitive although I've heard of guys getting cheap dirt from the local cemeteries.

I'd also start formulating a backup plan in case it gets shut down. In my area we are allowed to shoot on nature/wildlife preserves as long as no animals are messed with. We mainly shoot trap at these sights but I've seen guys hauling rifles out of their vehicles as I'm on my way out.

 

[John Joseph]

Contact the NRA and your NRA State affiliate. They have resources that may help keep your range open.
Otherwise find out if there is a land re-utilization agency that is charged with the airport's development and submit a business
plan for the operation of the range. Where does your local PD, SO, State and Feds go to qualify? You may have an untapped market

 

[fpgt72]

Howdy. The town I live in has a municipal airport that was originally built as a Army Air Force training facility during WWII. As such, it has a berm that was designed for target training. After the base was closed it was given to the city which has used it as a municipal airport ever since. Likewise the berm has been in use as a public gun range (with no supervision, or fees, or anything) ever since. Keep in mind this is on the edge of a tiny airport surrounded by farmland... there are no houses or future land development to worry about. The berm is U shaped and is (im guessing) 12 feet tall probably 200 ft log and maybe 100 feet deep (side length). Shooting direction is south. Some time ago, the city built a storage building (sheetmetal) approx 200 ft west of the range. Well somebody (or bodies) decided to take a few shots at the building and now the city is saying that their insurance co will make them shut the range down if they cant protect the building. Attached is an aerial view. Like I said this is an un-monitored public range. Suggestions?

I highlighted the issue.

The city is not going to spend any resources or money to take care of this issue....I would bet money on this....the contact NRA thing is a good idea, but you need to get a core group of people to head this up....there needs to be a local "guy in charge" even for the NRA to help you out....dealing with the city is a black hole and they know it.

Get a group of people together that use the range, go before the city and say, we will take care of this, we will put up cameras to catch the bad guys, and the lic plates of the cars is what you really need to grab trust me on this....and take control of the area if you can. If you can swing earth moving equipment you might get another berm build....bullets leaving the range is so bad....sorry to say it might be too late.

 

[alsaqr]

IMO: Some cretin deliberately shot the building. Such is the fate of uncontrolled shooting ranges.

Get organized and work with local authorities:

1. Post range hours and rules.

2. Enlist a volunteer as range safety officer.

3. Offer training for new shooters.

 

[John_R]

Extend the western berm in a northerly direction to protect the building. That should be reasonably low-cost and low maintenance.

Why'd they put the building right there? That was probably a dumb decision.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Idiots at a range is like throwing the titanic an anchor. You are in a pickle because of a couple of idiots.

 

[bearcreek]

Extend the west berm north towards A St. I assume you've thought of that though. Depends how much the city is willing to spend. If they can find someone doing some excavating nearby for a pond or something maybe they could arrange to have the dirt hauled to the range. Another solution that might help would be cameras. Perhaps, if the idiots know they're on camera, they'll be less likely to behave like idiots.

 

[George P]

Extend the western berm in a northerly direction to protect the building. That should be reasonably low-cost and low maintenance.

Why'd they put the building right there? That was probably a dumb decision.

Not if the shooters weren't jerks and didn't shoot the building.....

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

The city must have a lousy insurance agent. Insurance companies are what they are, you need a good agent to relay common sense to the pencil pushers that issue policies. It is plain to see in the photo that the shots fired into the building were a deliberate act of vandalism. The same thing can happen again whether the range is open, closed or had never existed at all . The city attorney should be contacted as well. Why would the city accept any responsibility for the incident? If someone throws a rock from the city hall steps and breaks a window in a passing car is the city at fault?

 

[fpgt72]

The city must have a lousy insurance agent. Insurance companies are what they are, you need a good agent to relay common sense to the pencil pushers that issue policies. It is plain to see in the photo that the shots fired into the building were a deliberate act of vandalism. The same thing can happen again whether the range is open, closed or had never existed at all . The city attorney should be contacted as well. Why would the city accept any responsibility for the incident? If someone throws a rock from the city hall steps and breaks a window in a passing car is the city at fault?

It makes no difference....it is on city land so the issue is theirs.....if a bullet hits a plane or something the city will be in on the suit for owning the property and not doing what they need to make it safe.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

It makes no difference....it is on city land so the issue is theirs.....if a bullet hits a plane or something the city will be in on the suit for owning the property and not doing what they need to make it safe.

If the city closes the range it would not prevent someone from shooting at a plane or anything else from it or any other property the city owns. A good insurance company and agent will stand up for their client in the event of a frivolous lawsuit. A good attorney would know that capitulating when not at fault will attract more of the same.

 

[Speedo66]

If there is a local gun club, see if they will fence the back of the berm, maybe charge an admission fee for a limited time to pay for the fence, and maintain hours with volunteer range staff.

Even if it's only weekends, still better than a complete loss.

We lost a semi-public outdoor range based on the conduct of morons. It had been set up on utility company right of way by the county police union. Been there forever between a residential area and a parkway. Idiots started shooting electric line insulators and other utility company equipment. The final straw was when bullets started coming down in people's yards. You'd have to aim seriously high to shoot over the rock face in front of the range, which they did.

Under pressure from the town, the utility refused to extend the lease. Gone, never to be replaced. This was about 5 years ago in Westchester County NY, a few miles from the NYC border.

I wish you luck!

 

[hdwhit]

fpgt72 has a good idea. I think to get both city and insurance company buy-in you need to form your own private, non-profit corporation and then pitch to the city that your organization would like to take over operation of the range. Once you have a formal organization with a stated membership, regular meetings and all the legal niceties covered then there are lines of responsibility for someone in the city to call when something happens and that would put you in a much better posture for negotiating with the city.

In the city where I live, the Baseball-Softball Association is responsible for operating the little league ball fields, the Heritage Association operates the Historic Park, the Railroad Association operates the Railroad exhibits, and so on.

 

[Mad_Max]

There are some very good ideas here guys, thanks. Just to give you an idea of the enthusiasm there is in this town, we have a local gun club (shotgun/skeet only and they have their own range) and they have no president because nobody wanted to volunteer. I think the only real hope is to get the berm extended. I know they'll never bulldoze the place because theres 75 years of lead and shot in it. No way they'd disturb that. Oh, and it was asked where do the local PD & SO go to qualify?... not sure, but they do practice at this location.

 

[CapnMac]

Probably conflicting financial interests at work here.
Landing fees can make a local muni airport a cash cow for a city.

Despite the fact you can uy a plane for about what a decent boat and trailer costs, most aircraft owners are from upper income levels, which means they are often better connected to city movers and shakers.

So, the city may have been looking for a reason to shut down the range, and the insurance is the scapegoat. Maybe. Possibly.

However, working against you is that there are few things as horrible as the general public, particularly around things which are "free." (I'd give even odds any bullet holes in the shed are from right in frotn of it, and not "strays" from over the berm.)

"Saving" this range will be complicated. You will need a method which cost the City no money. You also need a way to address airport security--even at a muni, there are some concerns. Probably some way to track who gets in to the range, and some sort of fee system. But, if "the writing is on the wall" it may be too late.

 

[shuvelrider]

It is city property so they can do what they will, whenever they will as it suits their needs. To include building on it , selling it if it's profitable to do so, or even scraping away the berm that sits on city property. You honestly have no recourse that I can see, short of forming a group to buy that parcel of land to develop yourselves. Your actually fortunate the city has allowed "shooting" all this time, at this location. Liability will strongly come into play in any future conversation with your local board.

 

[SamT1]

Your probably screwed, been in dang near this exact situation. If the city filed an insurance claim for a few bullet holes they did it because they knew the result. Most likely you have some liberals on the council that keep bringing up the liability of the range and won’t let it go and now they seize the chance to close it up.

Like others said an individual or club will need to rent the range from the city for a dollar and carry insurance on it and operate it as they see fit. The NRA offers insurance at a reasonable price as long as everyone using it is a member. The problem is it’s a major pain and your little drop in and shoot alone range will become a crappy version of a pay to play range with no features. I believe an offer has to be present for the NRA insurance to work, so locking up and selling keys for a membership usually wont fly.

I’d try to find a buddy with some land and get on ebay and buy you some steel.

 

[JellyJar]

I will do Speedo66 one better. Get a group of friends that use the range; incorporate a non-profit gun club; lease the site from the city; only gun club members can use the range. If the rent and upkeep is low then club dues can also be low.

Edit Also perhaps more such "bays" can be created and this used as a competition range.

 

[fpgt72]

If the city closes the range it would not prevent someone from shooting at a plane or anything else from it or any other property the city owns. A good insurance company and agent will stand up for their client in the event of a frivolous lawsuit. A good attorney would know that capitulating when not at fault will attract more of the same.

The city is "providing" this area, this is where the issue would be.

 

[George P]

How about forming some form of LLC and buying the property from the city?

 

[GBExpat]

... Another solution that might help would be cameras. Perhaps, if the idiots know they're on camera, they'll be less likely to behave like idiots. ...

Problem is that anyone immature/uncaring enough to throw shots at that storage building would probably think it a lot of fun to see which one of them could hit the camera(s).

 

[jmorris]

.now the city is saying that their insurance co will make them shut the range down if they cant protect the building.

It’s simple, they can’t protect the building or it’s contents.

Not to be captain obvious but If they could they wouldn’t need insurance.

Then again if an insurance company couldn’t protect something I wanted to insure, I would find another insurance company.

That is the solution I would look at, certainty much easier to find another insurance company than eliminate idiots from this world...

Not to mention there would be no shortage of agents that would absorb the cost of a single shed refurbishment to have an entire city’s contract for insurance. Heck, that would cost a lot less than some of the bribes that have been paid over time for such contracts.

I would bet a dollar (and I am not a gambling man) if they told the current insurance company “Ok, we will contact you to cancel all of our coverage once we find a new insurance company.”, they will change their mind.

 

[Skgreen]

Least expensive / quickest / easiest thing for the City to do would be to close the range.
I'm afraid that's probably the most likely outcome, unless somebody somewhere can come up with the resources to develop / insure it.
Sounds like it was nice while it lasted, but the phrase 'bound to happen' comes to mind as well.