My Long Range AR15 Build (feedback please)

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CmdrSlander

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So, after feedback from you guys, I've decided to put together my own long-range focused AR [with the help of gunsmith :)] (instead of buying off the shelf).

Here's the parts run down:

Lower: RRA LAR-15 forger lower with A2 Stock and 2 stage match trigger
Upper & Barrel: White Oak match rifle upper 26"
RIS: Swap included free float tube for KAC free float RAS
Mags: Four Magpul 20 round PMAGS
Sights: KAC full size flip up front and rear. Nikon 'Monarch' 4x Scope
Misc/accessories: Magpul AFG2, Harris 'Rota-Pod' FDE Duracoat on all metal parts/stock.

Edit: Also, if you're a varmint in Kansas... get your affairs in order.
 
I don't get the 4x scope and 26" barrel. The 4x is a short to medium range scope at best. At those ranges the extra barrel length will gain you little, make the rifle a bit unbalanced, and be bulky for short to medium range situations. To me, they are quality items but with opposite uses. A monarch in something like 6.5-20(or whatever their adjustment range would be) and that barrel or the fixed 4x and a 16" or 18" barrel would make much more sense.
 
Well, it's sort of a random assortment of parts.

The combination of a superlong heavy barrel, AFG, bipod and low magnification scope don't seem to have much synergy.
It's like you picked the parts in such a way to make sure the rifle won't excel in any particular use.
 
About the scope

I know nothing about scopes, Anyone know a good one that goes up to 6x or 8x for around $400?

Edit: Also about the bipod and the AFG: They're to be used separately, one for supported shooting, one for if I need to shoot freestanding, I find that the AFG helps me balance heavier rifles. Also, the only thing on it that might be random is the scope, everything else (high quality barrel, two-stage trigger, free float RAS, bipod) work together for accuracy and distance.
 
For the kind of money that you would spend on that upper plus irons and RAS you could buy a complete Larue PredatAR. This would give you a better trigger, would be at least 4 lbs lighter, give you a nice modular forearm without unnecessary cheese-grater and allow you to spend more of your budget on optics...and it would hold value better.
 
No offense, but is this going to be sort of a long range CQB rifle? What are you going to be hanging off of it to need those handguards?

Having built more than a couple of long range rigs based on the AR platform, for myself and others, my experience has told me this:

First, going much over 18" of barrel gets you almost nothing. The increase in velocity is negligible. Although the extra long barrel gets you nothing, it could cost you something, in that the rifle is going to be heavier and more difficult to deal with. An 18" barrel will easily get you out to the maximum effective range of a .223. If you just want barrel length, then go with a 20". Just remember, the longer the barrel, the heavier it needs to be to match the accuracy of a shorter barrel with a slimmer profile.

I think you're wasting your money on the KAC rails and what's with the flip ups? A free float tube, like those offered by Bushmaster and RRA will do nicely. They will also ride a front rest or bags better than a rail system will. If you need to hang stuff off of the rifle, then drill and tap the tube for sections of rail. With what you're dumping into the rails and flip ups, you can loose the budget WOA barrel and get a Krieger.

As for the scope, a 4X, 6X or 8X may be good enough for long range shooting at man sized varmints, but for small stuff, you're going to want at least a 2.5-10X or something.

This was my last long range rig, based on an AR. 18" barrel with 2.5-10X32 Nightforce.

DSC_0004.jpg

For size reference, those are 18" tiles on the floor. With a 26" barrel, you can imagine that rifle being 8" longer than what you see.

The scope was just adequate for my tastes. I run a 5.5-22X50 now.
 
lower, upper and barrel are good

rails... ok, but i'd prob go with a round handguard for varmints. possibly the vtac

scope, you definitely want more magnification for varmints

the KAC iron sights are known for having a somewhat thinner front sight post. some people like it and some don't. it's quality, but non-standard. if you are 35-40 or older and have any difficulty seeing up close, get something else. their sight is good but expensive.

skip the AFG. you will probably want to run this on a front rest instead of bipod. the afg will get in the way
 
As Tony said length over 20" is heavy ( so is 20 with bi-pod) with little or no gain: start hanging stuff off the rails and you might as well mount it on top of your vehicle for you will not want to carry the thing.

Scope, depending on intended range and your eyes, the bigger the better IMO and you can buy good scopes from $100 (Simmons 6?24?x50) to super scopes for ?? the sky is the limit. Look on THR for threads on scopes and touch feel and look through a few if you can before you purchase..
 
again, i think the twist is more important on the bbl than the length. for varmints, i'd go 1-12 or 1-14 (preferably) and shoot 45-52g bullets. but yeah, i'd go 24-26" too for velocity. yeah, 26" barrels are heavy if you're trying to shoot 3gun with them or something, but they're not THAT heavy. and with varmint shooting, the gun is on a rest most of the time anyway.
 
Wow that barrel will feel like carrying a heavy broom through the woods. BUT, since it is being built for a "long range" varmint rig, that may not be an issue. You should be able to push those bullets to max velocity and WOA's accuracy potential is great.

For the forearm, l am a fan of the modular type where you add rails if/where you want them, and don't have a bunch of heavy, rough surface area where you don't. I went with the JP VTAC for my hunter, and the MI SS for my range shooter, but there are many good options available at good prices. The KAC is a good one though.

More good news, you know how it ejects too.:D Looking forward to the pics.
 
taliv said:

again, i think the twist is more important on the bbl than the length. for varmints, i'd go 1-12 or 1-14 (preferably) and shoot 45-52g bullets. but yeah, i'd go 24-26" too for velocity

I usually agree with what taliv says, but this time (I kinda see what he is saying) but for my purposes it is to restrictive. I have both the Varminter 24" and Preditor 20". I can shoot heavy grain or fairly lite grain in both of them. 1/9 and 1/8 barrel twist and they are both very accurate but are probably the least used ARs I have because of weight when trekking.... True most of my shots are less than 200 yards when hunting. Think geographical area (length of average shots taken) and intended use ( type of varmints) should be considered and thrown in a bucket and see what fits your needs best.
 
Yea Im lost when you say long range, but then say a 4 power scope? A little clarity will help. and What do you intend to hang off the rails? Please don't say a PEQ-4 or 15. I can understand a bipod.

I say upgrade the scope to a least a variable power 4 to 9 power that will help you acquire long range targets.

What the intended use?
 
TonyAngel has hit the tack on the head for what you are looking for. Take his recipe and follow it to a "T". You will not be disappointed.
 
I'm with the need more scope crowd. I have 6.5-20X on my Varmint rifle, and dont feel over scoped. It all depends how big a target your shooting at.....I paper punch 3/4" target dots at 300yrds with mine, for practice.
 
Don't worry about having rails on a long range varmint gun. All you need is a bi-pod adapter that you can remove and still be able to shoot off of bags. And these guys are right about the 4x scope....For $400 you can do much better than that. I'd say you need a minimum of 18x on the higher end, but I'd still go higher. Just keep in mind that magnification comes at a cost. The low end cheap scopes will not do you any favors over a less powerful quality brand. Here are a lot of good options.... http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...categoryString=657***11392***11396***15273***

On a dedicated long range target/varmint gun there is no need to for open sights...save you money there too. Put that extra money into a trigger job. I've messed with those 2 stage target triggers and they are nothing special. A good trigger is a huge asset to have in a target rifle.

Here's a picture of a 20" Bull barrel...I think in a 223 it's about all you need. It ain't pretty but it shoots as good as any bolt gun.

DPMS1of1.jpg
 
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If you're going to swap to a combat type rail system.....then just start with a Larue 20" stealth upper. The BCM Mk12 SPR Mod 3x is a good upper as well.

(As you can see I leave the 26"+ barrels to bolt action precision rifles, which may be something you may want to consider at this point)
 
http://www.shopbarska.com/Sniper_Scopes-4-16x50

Just purchased this and I do not even need another scope! Was over $300 and ordered it delivered for $99. If the reviews are correct it should be a nice cheap scope for placement on a ???? dunno probably a CMMG .22 18" upper???.Dunno???

I need to stay off forums makes me want things especially when I see something over 66% off. If I needed another scope I would get a Vortex Viper but not needing one to begin with the $99 will fit.
 
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So, after feedback from you guys, I've decided to put together my own long-range focused AR [with the help of gunsmith :)] (instead of buying off the shelf).

Here's the parts run down:

Lower: RRA LAR-15 forger lower with A2 Stock and 2 stage match trigger
Upper & Barrel: White Oak match rifle upper 26" RIS: Swap included free float tube for KAC free float RAS
Mags: Four Magpul 20 round PMAGS
Sights: KAC full size flip up front and rear. Nikon 'Monarch' 4x Scope
Misc/accessories: Magpul AFG2, Harris 'Rota-Pod' FDE Duracoat on all metal parts/stock.

Edit: Also, if you're a varmint in Kansas... get your affairs in order.

Problems in red.
 
a free float is a free float. a 4 rail would add just as much inherent accuracy as a tube though personal is against rails...dont like how rough they feel. the scope was a bit of a odd choice. if you already had it sitting around then I can understand but if you went a got it specifically for this hen it's a little strange, I would have jsut held on to the money and held out for a better scope. the 2 stage is more than enough trigger for a varmint gun andthe overall setup is quite nice. I really dont buy into the whole 20+" barrels, I think any extra velocity and stability you gain is going to be marginal at best but that's just my view. congrats on your new build, kill a couple praire rats for me
 
I know nothing about scopes, Anyone know a good one that goes up to 6x or 8x for around $400?

Edit: Also about the bipod and the AFG: They're to be used separately, one for supported shooting, one for if I need to shoot freestanding, I find that the AFG helps me balance heavier rifles. Also, the only thing on it that might be random is the scope, everything else (high quality barrel, two-stage trigger, free float RAS, bipod) work together for accuracy and distance.
You can get an SWFA Super Sniper for about $300. It is the only decent cheap scope I know of.

The KAC FF tube is fine. I have a few of them and they work great. Most people that knock them probably have never used one, they are expensive and not all that easy to find. But, considering you have a 26" barrel, a rail isn't all that useful I feel. A bipod and sling are what you will need for long range, and that will fit any tube.

The flip up sights. Those are very expensive, especially the KAC stuff. I only use the 600m rear flip as a backup on my M4. It has a regular front sight. Those flip sights aren't all that accurate. I know in Call of Duty they are dead on, but in real life, they suck. If you are shooting varmints, forget the iron sights.

The 26" barrel is usually used by competition shooters in order to get a longer sight radius. The extra length, that long anyway, is a diminishing return. Not much extra velocity for the length and weight. Not sure about 5.56, but I'd guess somewhere between 20" and 24" would be ideal.

The RRA trigger is fine. They can use a little polishing if you know what you are doing, but if not, they will eventually break in fine and become a great trigger without the polish.

Here is my advice. And I've built a lot of these rifles and have a lot of experience with them.

1. Barrel. It all revolves around the barrel, you can get junk everything else and a good barrel and still have a decent AR. Get the twist rate for the bullet you'll be using, the length for the situation, and weight based on balance and how long you plan on holding it. Get the best one you can obviously, hammer forged chrome lined for full boogie or abuse, good stainless with cut rifling for accuracy. I like Satern Barrels for accuracy, LMT or Noveske for chrome lined.

2. Trigger. A good simple single stage AR trigger, say a DPMS that has been polished, will get you to 4.5lb pull, nice and crisp. For cheap. I say DPMS because they grind the engagement surfaces, Oly parkerizes them making it impossible to tune them, but as long as the engagement surfaces are cut and not finished, they should be useable. Next up is a decent 2stage. The RRA trigger is fine, again, a little polish job helps. Geissele make great triggers, but unless you know what you need or actually need it, it really doesn't help. Compound this by the fact that all the trigger makers essentially keep their lock times secret, so you really don't know who makes the best one. The answer to this then, is to find the one that feels the best to you. For me, the RRA tuned up feels BETTER than the Geissele. If Geissele had a faster lock time, I'd get it and make it feel like I want. But since I'm left in the dark, RRA is good enough. Some people will cry about RRA making junk 2stage triggers. Mine is eight years old and was used as an SDM trigger for awhile when I was in the army. I am still using it, it is in the third or fourth rifle now, untold number of rounds, and it works fine. Some wear, but it is fine.

3. Having a good bolt and carrier, at least mil spec, is nice. This lends reliability, and can lend accuracy too if the bolt was headspaced to that particular barrel. Finally, a free floating tube is nice for long range shots. It will tighten the group up. At close range, 300m or less, and against human sized targets, it doesn't matter much. But for pinpoint, nice groups, or longer ranges, the free floated barrel helps.

The only thing I can see that makes little sense in your build is the use of a rail on such a long barrel. But that is just me I guess, if it floats your boat do it. And of course the sights. Ditch the flip sights or save them for an M4 as backups for reflex sight or something (shoot, save the rail system for that too!). A 10x SWFA SS scope for $300 and a plain ff aluminum tube will make a great varmint rifle with the rest of your build.

But that rail and those flips are more tactical natured gear than not. Nothing wrong with putting them on there I guess, but it is kind of like putting a blower and slicks on, and then stripping the interior out of, a Cadillac. It'll still get you from point a to b, but... You get my point.
 
What is your definition of long distance?

Long distance means different things to different people. Are you looking at shooting 100 yds or 600 yds. In Service Rifle competition, short distance is 200 and 300 yds, with 600 yds being the long shots. In F-class shooting, 800 yds is close and 1,000 yds is long.

Competitive service rifle and F-Class shooters typically use 75-77 or 80 gr bullets with fast twist barrels (1-7 and 1-8) to keep the rounds stable when they arrive at the target.

Don't mean to be contrary, but you need to specify what distances will be typical for your shooting.

HH
 
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