My M17S' first day at the range

[Black Snowman]

I'm happy so far. The "iron" sights (which are actually the same polymer/fiber stuff as the lower receiver) do indeed suck. I couldn't even use them with ear muffs on. I did get my BSA 50 mm dot scope sighted in by "bore sighting" using the irons and matching them with the dot. It never heated up to the point where I couldn't hold it comfortably. The trigger pull is long but consistent and really worked out better than I expected.

At 100 yards my Dad got a 4" 10 round group shooting rested. Not too bad for no magnification and a cheap sight. I only shot it at 50 yards but didn't really pay attention to the group size. It wasn't bad. Resting I should be able to do 1.5" to 2.5" groups at 50 yds without much trouble.

I was shooting 55 gr HP Wolf ammo in used Orlite magazines. Basically cheapest ammo and cheapest mags I could find. Not one jam, FTF, or hiccup of any kind. Total of 85 rounds through the gun over the space of about an hour and a half. Chronoed the ammo at about 2800 FPS give or take.

It got warm but not hot. If you like to spray ammo I can see where it could get too hot to hold up front but you can move your fore hand back to the mag well to keep some stability and not get burned.

With ear plugs the iron sights are usable but not quality. I wouldn't want to depend on them past the designed range of 25 meters. Short sight radius and poor profile make an alternate sight almost a necessity, which is why I guess it comes with the rail.

Well, I'm happy with it. My main concern, reliability with the HP cheapo Wolf ammo and the cheap mags, was put to rest. It's what I bought it for. A short 223 for home defense and a fun gun to shoot at the range. It's a VERY fun gun to shoot in fact and I don't regret buying it in the slightest.

Now, if you're expecting sniper accuracy look elsewhere but the M17S delivers where it was designed to. Pick of me with my new "evil black gun" should be on my web site sometime soon. I'll add a reply when it is.

 

[uglygun]

Try some different ammo perhaps, I have heard otherwise regarding the accuracy of the M17....


One person I knew swears that he could get around 1 inch with his older M17 while using varmint loads.


Here's an interesting something you might like...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=169364

 

[Black Snowman]

Oh, I have no doubt the groups would tighten up a LOT with a good scope and some hand loads. The limiting factor in my opinion is the long trigger pull, more difficulty resting in certain situations and the fact that I didn't have any magnafication. With my glasses being about 6 years old and needing a new prescription doesn't help either

I think the barrel and bolt mechanics are an easy match for a standard profile AR-15. Reaching that potential is a bit trickier.

For precision shooting I have my CZ 550 Varmit Laminate. This is my "fun gun" and my L1A1 is my scary politically incorrect gun. Love shooting all of them but not obessessing over shot placement makes the M17S more laid back and lets me enjoy the experiance a little mre.

 

[444]

Shooting a 1 1/2" group at 50 yards with that rifle is pretty good shooting. Especially as you say, you wern't really trying to shoot bragging sized groups. Your dad's 4", 10 round group at 100 yards is equally impressive. Sounds like a winner to me. Reliable and accuracy sounds very good to me; this isn't a benchrest match rifle. I am sure it is capable of doing better with practice, load develpment, better optics etc. But this isn't supposed to be that kind of rifle. I think you are doing great and I would be perfectly happy with the performance thus far.
I always thought those were cool looking rifles. I have considered buying one, but I need it like I need a hole in the head.

 

[gun-fucious]

you might enjoy this link:
http://no-treason.com/laissezfirearm/bushm17s.htm

 

[Kamicosmos]

In regards to trying better ammo:

I was a selfish pig not offering to let you shoot some of the Varminter's very well made handloads. (Yes, that's me bragging.) They were sitting right there on the bench....never entered my mind.

Oh well. It's not like we never go to the range together or something. Next time remind me to tell you to use some of the handloads!!

 

[Black Snowman]

If I was concerned with the guns accuracy potential I'd have probably asked. But If I want to make tattered holes I'd just barrow you varmitter or use the CZ

I'm vary happy with it so far. A big part of it is not expecting too much I knew the weakness of bullpups and the M17S in particular going into it so there haven't been any surprises.

For about the price of an AR-15 you sacrafice accuracy potential for a very short rifle that's just plain neat. That what I wanted, and that's what I got.

Oh, and Uglygun, that was mean posting that other thread. You're just trying to convince me I need to spend more money aren't you.

 

[Onslaught]

Your thread that resulted in this purchase was so long, I don't know if you saw this or not, so here it is again:

Kurt's Kustom

Among other things, Kurt will remove that silly plastic carry handle, install a folding charging handle, and add either a high or low picatinny rail across the top. You could then use AR15 detachable sights of your choosing on it, giving you the same 300+ yard hit potential with iron sights that an AR is quite capable of. It's funny to see some of the guys at work who sneer when I take my rifle out of the case, but after I have them hitting the 500 yard sillouette with nothing but irons, they start asking me how much is it, where can I get one, etc...

This one pictured below has either an ARMS #40 or GG&G A2 fold down rear sight and a Bushmaster fold down front sight on it.

Last I heard, Kurt was working on a left handed model, so maybe there's hope for me after all

 

[Black Snowman]

I saw the Kurt's Kustoms. I like the ventalation cuts in the AR15.com thread a little better for looks. A little "wilder". As it is I actually like the high mounting position for the dot scope. I can keep the gun at high-ready and don't have to move my head to get behind the sights when I bring it up.

I just now noticed that Kurt's version was cut down shorter. With the shorter upper reciever I didn't notice it in the stand alone pictures. What's the minimum OAL for a rifle until you get into NFA territory? There is a limit isn't there?

Anyway I'm not going to dump any money into it soon. I shouldn't have spent the money to get it in the first place. But hey, it comes of the credit report in 7 years right

 

[Black Snowman]

The promised picture kindly taken by Kamicosmos:

I cut out the rest of me to save space and because I realised I looked like the pudgy slob that I am