My son "busted" for saying "gun" on bus.

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Well, I just got off the phone with the assistant principal. My son is suspended from riding the bus for three days… Not for saying the word gun but for “arguing with the driver.”

This is the story as she told it- “Mrs. **** (principal) had boarded their bus Monday and told them that the ‘gun stuff’ has got to stop. Apparently some of the boys had been making ‘gun gestures’ and having conversations about guns to each other and she was concerned that it was distracting and disruptive for some of the younger students (6th, 7th, & 8th graders on bus) who might feel threatened by it and wouldn’t understand that they were playing.” (At the school basketball & volleyball games the student section cheers in unison, “Boom! Head shot!” for any 3 pointer or spike.) “The boys, in an effort to circumvent Ms. ****, were singing a song about guns and the driver told them to stop. Addison argued with her about it and is suspended from the bus for three days.”

I asked, “is the suspension for singing the word ‘gun’ or arguing?” She replied, “the suspension is for creating a potentially dangerous situation by arguing with the driver & distracting her.” I replied, “and said argument started because the driver objected to the content of the song they were singing. I understand that the driver has full control over the bus but would the argument have ensued if they were singing about cars? Which kill a heck of a lot more people than guns?” “I’m not going to argue semantics with you Sir.” She answered, “it was an inappropriate song, particularly so after the principals discussion with them.”

“Do you have the phone # for the school board?” I queried. (Hesitation.) “Yes, the # for Transportation, which handles the busses, is ####.” I then asked, “and the # for the President or Director or whoever is in charge of the school board?” (Longer hesitation.) “I’ll have to get back to you on that.” “O.K., thank you.” Click.

She did call me back in about five mins with the name & number. I am sitting here in utter disbelief & fuming. I want to get the exact story (from my son’s perspective) this afternoon.
 
I’m not going to argue semantics with you Sir
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That kills me. This whole situation is ABOUT semantics. The bus driver needs to be fired. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
“the suspension is for creating a potentially dangerous situation by arguing with the driver & distracting her.”
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Who is the adult? The driver or student? The adult, if they feel they are being distracted, is responsible. They pull the bus over in a safe area and deal with the situation. Our school buses all had 2-way radios the drivers could use to contact the depot/dispatcher.

I am also amused by "potentially dangerous." Situations either are dangerous or they aren't. This isn't darts.

The administrator makes it sound like it was like "Lord of the Flies" on that bus.
 
I think it's time to wear a Smith and Wesson T-shirt to school

My sentiments, exactly. Bus driver is an idiot, and I am sorry for any insult to idiots in that remark.
 
heh. when i was in 8th grade we did a civil war reneancatment for a school video presentation. we had no civil war muskets so the uncle of our group leader let us borrow 4 springfield 1903s, 2 enfields, and a mauser.

we brought them all to school, unzipped the cases, and proceeded to dry fire at imaginary rebs and yankees from behind the stone wall at shiloh (iirc) on school video.

and this was in CALIFORNIA!!! 1993. sigh* those were the days.. wish I had rich parents, I would have bought a ton of guns before the bans.
 
Well, I just got off the phone with the assistant principal. My son is suspended from riding the bus for three days… Not for saying the word gun but for “arguing with the driver.”
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My unsolicited advice is to concentrate on this as it is reallythe heart of the issue. If you try to make it into a gun issue they will almost certainly write you off as an angry gun crank and you won't get the satisfaction you want. From your description of your discussion with the principal, it sounds to me like she is more concerned about disruption on the bus than anything else. Schools systems are very strict these days about bus conduct due to liability concerns in the event of an accident. My daughter and my ex-wife's son were both put off the bus at different times over things that I thought were incredibly Mickey Mouse; but the administration hears the driver's side of it first and there is often a certain institutional prejudice in favor of their employee.
Concentrate on whether there was actually a disruption that threatened the safety of the passengers, not the first or second ammendments.
 
...says to his best friend across the aisle, “dang, now just the word gun must be able to kill ya.” He told me that right when he was saying it the bus went unreal quiet, one of those weird “moments.” Well, she heard him and BAM! Write-up. Six kids in total got ‘em.
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Sounds like the old Monty Python movie The Life of Brian
I just said the word Jehova!
Stone him!
 
New verse for the old song. How's this for a protest.

The guns on the bus go bang bang bang, bang bang bang,bang bang bang
the guns on the bus go bang bang bang, all through the town.
I would do it, but then again I got kicked out of public school so maybe advice from me isn't the best. (It was gun related, I talked about hunting with a friend)
 
I hear you Joe and appreciate your advice, unsolicited or not. I thought the same thing when she listed the reason(s). Is taking a stand worth the repercussions which could potentially be foisted upon him during his remaining attendance this year & next? I need to calmly reflect. I'm pissed right now... Also, thanks to Kingcreek for the pm.
 
I think that Joe Demko has a good point, and suggest that you tell the principal (or whoever) that you want a copy of the bus driver's report/complaint. Before doing anything you need to know exactly what he/she said and how he/she said it.

If they refuse, drop a hint that the next contact in the matter may come from your attorney. That often gets the ball rolling. As a parent you have a right to see that report.
 
In the end, what is the lesson that we would want the children on the bus to learn from this?
 
In the end, what is the lesson that we would want the children on the bus to learn from this?
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That, if their parents don't stand up for idiotic no-tolerance policies, kids will be expelled for chewing gum in about 10 years.
 
You know way back when I was in school, I was way more scared of what my parents would do to me than I was of the teacher, principal, or the bus driver.. My how things have changed, now the student can threaten to tell mommy or daddy, who will defend their little darling, or threaten to call a lawyer or the school board on them, no matter what junior did.

Were the kids behaving in a manner that distracted the school bus driver? I'm willing to bet they were, and that the driver isnt just making problems for your little angel.

The reason we have zero tollerence policies is because mommy and daddy are more concerned with their little angel's feelings than they are about whether he was being a smart ass and disrespectful, to the bus driver, and because of the molly codling spoiled behavior that parents today encourage in their kids, instead of teaching them to respect authority.

So now to cover themselves from lawsuits from the parents they have a simple straighforward zero tolerence policy stated up front so their can be no question or legal action when they need to enforce the rules.

Thirty years ago If I came home and said the bus driver told me to be quiet, and I responded by smart talking her or singing a loud song when I was told to sit down and shut up, my parent would have seen it as disrespect for authority, and they would knocked me upside my head and told me to fly right.

Now when this happens mommy and daddy fly into a rage and want to call the school board and a lawyer.

Heck they even post it on a web board and the Greek chorus agrees with them. You need to teach your child that the world doesnt revolve around them, and they have to follow rules like it or not, better they learn it now than in a few years when they wind up in a cell with Bubba.
 
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Master Blaster for President!

(And it's too bad most people don't know what a Greek chorus is.)
 
The reason we have zero tollerence policies is because mommy and daddy are more concerned with their little angel's feelings than they are about whether he was being a smart ass disrespectful, bastard, mother****er to the bus driver, that and because the molly codling spoiled behavior that parents today encourage in their kids, instead of respecting authority.
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Wrong. The reason there are zero-tolerance policies are because schoolboards are reactionary and reduce every scenario to the absurd to justify the policy. Art student who brings in an Exacto in a folder where you were working on your project? That's a 5-day suspension bring bringing a deadly weapon to school. If you can honestly say that you think zero-tolerance is there because of the parents, you're ignorant of what's going on in the world of school districts -- by your post, you obviously don't have kids and you certainly didn't take the high road by being inflammatory and making up facts to support your tirade.

No, this issue isn't because the student was talking or behaving boisterously and was told to behave. He was targeted because an oversensitive wanna-be control freak bus driver tried to impose his values on someone else's child.

There's a point where obeying rules has to come to head with challenging rules that aren't fair and this was one such scenario.
 
No, Wynder, MasterBlaster was largely correct in his assessment of why zero tolerance policies exist, though he chose to phrase it rather provocatively. I do know something about how school systems work, because I've been in education since 1985.
Zero tolerance policies exist because of parents. When discipline was largely at the discretion of individual administrators, parents complained about unequal treatment. Johnny Goodkid got left off with a warning for an offense that got Timmy Scumbag suspended. Not all the complaints were justified, but not all were unjustified either. As a result of the complaints, zero policies grew up. Such policies remove the unequal treatment by removing much of the administrative discretion. This has been shown to have problems of its own.
Since you weren't on the bus and don't know anybody involved, I question where you have any factual basis for this statement:
No, this issue isn't because the student was talking or behaving boisterously and was told to behave. He was targeted because an oversensitive wanna-be control freak bus driver tried to impose his values on someone else's child.
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As I see it there was no disturbance until the driver started one.

I also believe that the order to stop singing was an UNreasonable direction given by the driver. (See second para below.) I didn’t copy all of the rules, hands out windows, etc., but there is one that reads-
27. Absolute quiet is required at railroad crossings. The driver will turn off all radios and illuminate the dome lights to alert students to be absolutely quiet. This is a requirement of the State of Tennessee, Pupil Transportation; and Sumner County Schools.

If this incident had occurred at a crossing I would light my son up. Such was not the case & I believe HE got railroaded. Good thing they weren’t talking football; rifle arm, shotgun, run & gun, etc. Or singing the Gap Band’s “You Dropped The Bomb On Me!” Terroristic threat, undoubtedly.




School Bus Conduct Policy
The school bus is an extension of school activity; therefore, the Board expects students to conduct themselves on the bus in a manner consistent with the established standards for safety and classroom behavior.
Students are under the supervision and control of the bus driver while on the bus and all reasonable directions given by the driver shall be followed.
The principal of the student transported shall be informed by the bus driver of any serious discipline problem and may be called upon to assist if necessary. A student may be denied the privilege of riding the bus if determined by the principal that their behavior is such as to cause disruption on the bus, or when they disobey state or local rules and regulations pertaining to student transportation. Parents/students must provide transportation to and from school should they be denied transportation because of suspension.
Any student who gets off the bus at any point between pick‑up point and school must present the bus driver with a note of authorization from the parent or the principal of the school that they attend.
Any student wishing to ride a bus other than their designated bus must have written parental permission and approved by the principal or their designee.
Incident Reports
The bus driver will discuss the incident with the student(s). All students involved may be included in the discussion. The driver will send the incident report to the office. The bus driver and student(s) may come into the office and discuss the ticket with the administrator or designated person. The student will contact their parent/guardian to discuss the bus incident report and behaviors that occurred. The administrator will discuss the bus incident report issue with parent/guardian by phone, in person, or in writing. The incident report is to be signed by the parent/guardian and returned to the school the following school day. Below are the consequences for receiving a bus incident report.
1. Verbal/Written Warning
2. Write bus rules
3. Suspension from bus
 
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No, Wynder, MasterBlaster was largely correct in his assessment of why zero tolerance policies exist, though he chose to phrase it rather provocatively. I do know something about how school systems work, because I've been in education since 1985.
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Congratulations, I've been in education myself for quite sometime and currently am a professor of computer science, though I've taught high school level music in my earlier years.

Zero-Tolerance grew out of federal drug enforcement policies in the early 80's and were picked up by the school districts to also fight these offenses, but they quickly spread to other petty offenses as the administration saw fit.

Such policies remove the unequal treatment by removing much of the administrative discretion.
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The only policies that remove unequal and, more importantly, unfair treatment are policies which plainly spell out what the punishment will be.

Since you weren't on the bus and don't know anybody involved, I question where you have any factual basis for this statement:
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I read the OP.
 
... and you certainly didn't take the high road by being inflammatory ...
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... an oversensitive wanna-be control freak bus driver ...
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Not taking sides, just making an observation. :rolleyes:


Zero tolerance policies remove any consideration of circumstances, any discretion, any point of incident judgement. I personally don't agree with zero tolerance policies for a wide number or reasons, but mainly because all too often functionally innocent people get punished by the policy.

I'll stop here.
 
Not taking sides, just making an observation.
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Fair enough, though the instigator of this argument was directly insulting the OP's child. The bus driver is a faceless figure in the conversation. :)
 
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