SWAT on the school bus...or; "Don't make me come back there!"

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hammer4nc

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Note: This post is intended to be (wryly) humorous...but within the humor, is there a kernel of truth regarding the training vs. common sense, as applied to modern-day policing?

Link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...oct02,0,6912453.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

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Deputy resigns after seeing video of school-bus tirade

By Jim Buynak | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 2, 2003

TAVARES -- A deputy sheriff who made profanity-laced threats to shoot Lake County high school students riding a bus resigned after his actions were caught on videotape, officials said Wednesday.

"Do you think one of you want to have a bullet in your [expletive] head? No, because I will come here with a gun in my hand and I will kill you," Lake Deputy Glen R. Guzman could be heard shouting on an audio disc of the incident.

When the students, who could be heard in the background, refused to be quiet, Guzman told them deputies were searching for a gun on the bus and yelled, "Everybody sit down and shut the [expletive] up." Still later, when some students appeared to be heckling the deputy, he said loudly: "Keep your [expletive] on the seat. If I wanted [expletive] humor, I would ask for it."

Friday, Guzman resigned from the department, where he had worked since April 2001. Deputies did not find a weapon during the search, according to a report.

The incident began shortly after 3 p.m. Sept. 15 when Guzman and another deputy were investigating a complaint from Lake school officials that a bus driver heard one student telling another that someone had a gun in a backpack.

The driver, Brenda Carton, pulled over the bus on U.S. Highway 27 and Lake Louisa Drive in Clermont, where the deputies boarded the bus and began searching and questioning the East Ridge High School students.

The confrontation was recorded on videotape, because every Lake district bus is equipped with a video camera, said Janice Karst, public information officer for Lake schools.

On Sept. 23, school officials turned the tape over to the Sheriff's Office, which immediately suspended Guzman without pay. School officials declined to release the tape, which courts have exempted from Florida public records law, but the Sheriff's Office did release an audio recording.

During the sheriff's investigation, a student told detectives that Guzman's actions shocked and scared her.

"He is suppose to make us feel calm in the situation, not make us scared in how he was threatening us to shoot us," the girl is quoted as saying in the internal investigation report.

On Sept. 25, Guzman was told of the investigation, and he asked to see the videotape. He watched the tape and resigned the next day.

Guzman, 30, who was an Orange County corrections officer before being hired by Lake County, had an unblemished record. He could not be reached for comment, because no current phone or address could be found.

Top officials with the Sheriff's Office said Guzman's actions were appalling but not necessarily criminal.

Because no one on the bus has made a complaint against Guzman, the Sheriff's Office does not intend to seek charges, said Maj. Claude Gnann. Late Wednesday, he said the internal investigation report will be handed over to the State Attorney's Office to determine whether any charges are warranted.

Criminal or not, Gnann said, Guzman's actions were not acceptable.

"That wouldn't have been proper behavior on a prison bus, much less a school bus," Gnann said. "It wouldn't be proper in a barroom, for that matter."

Gnann, who said he watched the tape at least three times, said it did not appear Guzman was threatened by a report of a gun on the bus, but that he was just "showing off" in front of the teenagers.

"The fashion he chose to do it was incredibly out of line," Gnann said. He said the deputy apparently knew some of the students.

The bus incident happened two days before a brawl at East Ridge that led to the arrest of 19 students. Some of those students on the bus were arrested in the fight, Gnann said.

"But," he said, "there is no link between the two [incidents]."
 
"But," he said, "there is no link between the two [incidents]."
Not unless those students were being smartasses prior to the deputy upping the ante.

Sounds like parentless delinquent little miscreants that really need some waking up.

They may well have mothers and fathers at home but they shure haven't been parented.

Sam
 
It would'nt have been proper behavoir on a prison bus; If they though a prisoner had a gun, a lot more force than harsh language would be used.
However some cop's (my age) tend to be a bit badge heavy.
 
This is what happens when you have cops on the street who started as jailers.

Sorry, but in my mind, the one thing that should forever disqualify somebody for street cop duty is being a jailer/CO. The mentality involved is completely different. Yet most sheriffs offices start people in the jails and then put 'em on the street.

Utter insanity.
 
"Do you think one of you want to have a bullet in your [expletive] head? No, because I will come here with a gun in my hand and I will kill you,"

Sam, I think you need to reconsider some of your base assumptions.
If a non-officer had uttered anything like that while wearing a gun, they would be in jail for a good long time. Heck, any adult shouting that on a shool bus or to a bunch of kids would be in jail for a long time. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. That person would not get called into the office and get the opportunity to resign the next day. They would have a warrant put out for their immediate arrest, and you would likely be cheering it.

Simply because a dimwit has a badge does not automatically give him a get out of jail free card, or the right to issue death threats to minors. If anything, wearing a badge means that that person is volunteering to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, and be under the spotlight most of the time. A badge is not an excuse for anti-social behavior, nor does it an permit criminal acts. This guy has created serious problems for himself and his department, and with any luck, he will be spending some time behind bars instead of being in front of them.

This idiot is not qualified to protect any community he belongs to, or at least any that I would want to raise a family in.
 
KC...
I made no assumption or comment re the cop's behaviour.

My comments were concerning the holiganism of the students.

And the possibility that , contrary to the closing comment in the article, there WAS a link between the rowdy students on the bus and the rowdy students in the mass fight two days later. Some of whome were involved in both places.

Sam
 
C.O. to Cop

Lemme see, 3 1/2 years as a C.O. on Rikers Island, retired from the N.Y.P.D. No substantiated civilian complaints. Hmm. sounds like someone should stick to what they have firsthand knowledge of.:neener:

The guy was a jerk, C.O, cop, accountant, truck driver etc.
 
Sounded like communicating a threat to me...

Some folks need to realize they are in charge of keeping the peace, not being masters of us poor peasants....
 
Going back 35 years: I had just gotten a pretty good pay raise because of the inflation brought about by LBJ's guns'n'butter policy. All the way up to around $800 a month! Austin city police started, then, at around $550 a month, IIRC (compared to Berzerkley, California rookies at $1,200).

Prison guards at the Texas Department of Corrections had pay in the range of $300 to $400 a month.

I often wondered just what sort of person would take that hazardous a job for such little money. IMO at the time, there had to be psychological factors involved; a desire for total authority over others being one of them.

Art
 
Sam:

If your primary concern is the behavior of the students, and not the deputy, your threat classification matrix is in serious need of revision. Juveniles who ignore an instruction to "sit down and shut up" on a school bus are nowhere as serious as an armed, hostile adult who is issuing death threats while clothed and operating as official authority.

Your refusal to consider the actions and statements of the deputy, in favor of criticsm of the students involved are the basic assumptions that I suggested that you need to reconsider.

In any event, the actions of some of the students involved, two days after the fact, under conditions that have no bearing on this episode, is at best circumstantial and has absolutly no bearing on the deputy's actions and threats. The official spokesthing even went on public recond stating that the two incidents did not bear any significant relationship to each other. Certainly, some of the students on the bus are perhapse sorely lacking in good manners; but a rabid foaming-at-the-mout sheriff spewing profanity and demanding, "Do you think one of you want to have a bullet in your [expletive] head? No, because I will come here with a gun in my hand and I will kill you," is by any stretch of even a limited imagination NOT the way to go about doing it. The problem is not the students (though their actions likely contributed to it), but with the alleged authority figure in this instance .
 
Was treatin the kids as a seperate and as yet unaddressed problem.

The rambo cop had, and has, been well addressed.
And I am in agreement with most of the posters that he needs a clue bat and a different profession.

Sam
 
Its funny how everyone knows exactly what it takes to be a "Good" cop when most of the replies on here are from people that don't wear the badge. The officer responded to what ammounts to a Man With a Gun call and in that situation you don't just casually walk up and politely say..."sir I'm with the police and we are here bc we care about your safety so we would appreciate your cooperation and consiederation for our feelings and the feelings of the rest of the people that might be hurt....ect. You take charge and stay in charge. Ever heard "A threat of force prevents a use of force"? He was loud and threatening, but in the end it worked and nobody got stupid and nobody got shot. Try facing down somebody that is armed and dangerous and then tell me how you'd talk to them.
 
A rowdy teenager is armed and dangerous?

He was not standing down an armed man, he was yelling at kids who wouldn't be quiet, not a truck load of Taliban.

He was responding to a call about a gun in a backpack. How many of you carry a gun on a daily basis? How many carry knives? Hell I always had a knife when I was at school. No fatalities either. If someone has a gun in their possession it's not OK cause they are a teenager, but it is OK if they post on THR?

Radagast
 
Does this make anyone else think of the Farva & the School Bus incident in Super Troopers? :evil:

Kharn
 
I just knew someone was going to pull the old, "If you don't wear the badge, you can't have an oppinion," fallacy. This is logically equivelent to saying that only pedophiles can have an opinion on the sexual exploitation of children, but people keep dragging it out nonetheless. :rolleyes:

Curiously enough, it seems that at least one person who does 'wear the badge' took exception to Guzman's actions, and did so right there in the inital article.

- Chris
 
Always amazing how the "Cops can do no wrong" comments come crawling outta the woodwork. I hope some of those kids have the sense to file charges against the man for communicating a threat.
 
Some of you are amazingly inconsistant. In one thread, some are lambasting lockstep conformity in education, and yet here some defend an armed idiot because he has a badge, against a bunch of students who were not immediatly cowed by asinine (and criminal) threats.
 
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