fallout mike
Member
It is a very good response but like twofifty id make a couple changes. Change the rule of never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.
My son made a gun comment in school...
- Thread starter NavyGuy
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I'm glad that you stated your guns are in a safe and the children cannot get to them. Its very clear that your responsible and you don't want her to draw any conclusions and report something crazy to children services.
I'm sorry that you have to go into such detail and explain your lifestyle but it's better to be clear than ambiguous regarding this issue.
I'm sorry that you have to go into such detail and explain your lifestyle but it's better to be clear than ambiguous regarding this issue.
dconrad
Member
Very good response, so how did Miss Bell respond?
Always remember that according to the College Board, the students with the lowest SAT scores are Education majors. I am not disparaging all teachers, as I am an adjunct instructor at two colleges myself, but you may have run across one of those people keeping the statistics depressed!
firearm - weapon
killchain, try and think this through instead of reacting in a knee-jerk fashion, like Mrs. Bell has.
The OP is up against very negative perceptions on the part of a powerful bureaucratic institution. This institution happens to have custody of his child 5 days a week. There is a lot at stake here and the OP must have a strategy and set priorities. What choice of words -firearm or weapon- is most likely to lead to the situation being defused?
I believe that the words 'firearm' and 'weapon' lead to different perceptions. They carry different emotional content, particularly with school officials.
"Weapon" is a purpose-related term used in the military, where weapons are used to kill the enemy.
"Firearm" is an object-related term that refers to sporting firearms, used for target shooting and hunting game.
I belive that when it comes to 7y.o. Tyler, this is the time for the OP to speak of firearms rather than weapons. It is time to stand firm, but not the time to go on a RKBA crusade.
killchain, try and think this through instead of reacting in a knee-jerk fashion, like Mrs. Bell has.
The OP is up against very negative perceptions on the part of a powerful bureaucratic institution. This institution happens to have custody of his child 5 days a week. There is a lot at stake here and the OP must have a strategy and set priorities. What choice of words -firearm or weapon- is most likely to lead to the situation being defused?
I believe that the words 'firearm' and 'weapon' lead to different perceptions. They carry different emotional content, particularly with school officials.
"Weapon" is a purpose-related term used in the military, where weapons are used to kill the enemy.
"Firearm" is an object-related term that refers to sporting firearms, used for target shooting and hunting game.
I belive that when it comes to 7y.o. Tyler, this is the time for the OP to speak of firearms rather than weapons. It is time to stand firm, but not the time to go on a RKBA crusade.
Nice letter. Too long though.
My wife is a teacher and if she questioned some students about anything like this she would be disciplined. Insane... she is finding out that anything the students put down, must simply be correct. Regardless!
Stick with the following:
"It's our religion and belief." Please accept his answer as appropriate for our beliefs. My attorney will be in contact with the school board to confirm that you will not be harassing my son.
Thank you.
Seriously, way to stay calm. Trust me though, the more details you give, the more questions you will get.
My wife is a teacher and if she questioned some students about anything like this she would be disciplined. Insane... she is finding out that anything the students put down, must simply be correct. Regardless!
Stick with the following:
"It's our religion and belief." Please accept his answer as appropriate for our beliefs. My attorney will be in contact with the school board to confirm that you will not be harassing my son.
Thank you.
Seriously, way to stay calm. Trust me though, the more details you give, the more questions you will get.
xcgates
Member
Also remember that a firearm is a specific type of weapon. I tend to call firearms weapons, but then again, I use the term weapon (or in real military speak, weapon-system) for any number of non-firearm weapons.
However, when dealing with people who are sensitive and gunshy, using language that minimizes use of a thing as a weapon can go a long way. It is just good practice to tailor your language towards your audience. For instance, do you talk the same way with your kids, friends, peers, superiors, or those you are in charge of? I know I don't (well, I don't have kids), and i tend to be polite to both those over, and under me, but that is because those under me actually know better than me, but I don't have to treat them with the same gloves as I do those with actual authority over me. (I can be more honest.)
For one couple I know whose kid killed himself with a pistol, I tailor what I bring up, and I certainly don't use the same hard-nosed language that I use amongst friends.
However, when dealing with people who are sensitive and gunshy, using language that minimizes use of a thing as a weapon can go a long way. It is just good practice to tailor your language towards your audience. For instance, do you talk the same way with your kids, friends, peers, superiors, or those you are in charge of? I know I don't (well, I don't have kids), and i tend to be polite to both those over, and under me, but that is because those under me actually know better than me, but I don't have to treat them with the same gloves as I do those with actual authority over me. (I can be more honest.)
For one couple I know whose kid killed himself with a pistol, I tailor what I bring up, and I certainly don't use the same hard-nosed language that I use amongst friends.
Tom609
Member
Excellent,...from a former Langley guy.
quote "I’m sorry this letter is so long, but due to the nature of the concern I think I owe you an absolute explanation." I mean no offense, but I would feel like she owes you more of an explanation as to why she is concerned than you owe her.
NavyLCDR
member
NavyGuy said:
?!? What's up with that?
Good letter and nicely written. I agree with some, that it is too long. Too much detail can confuse or mislead people that know little or nothing about guns. It also gives them more to work with in the event that they are inclined to "read into it". While your safety rules may seem appropriate to someone familiar with firearms, the average lay person may interpret it as "guns are dangerous", which just scares people.
The first 3 sentences or so get right to the point, and technically should be all that's necessary. Any additional information might be better discussed in person. JMO
Another day in the life of a parent. It ain't easy!
PS: Just thougt of one more thing. She probably believes it is her social responsibility to bring it to your attention. Just knowing that you have discussed it with your son (one way or the other) is probably enough for her.
The first 3 sentences or so get right to the point, and technically should be all that's necessary. Any additional information might be better discussed in person. JMO
Another day in the life of a parent. It ain't easy!
PS: Just thougt of one more thing. She probably believes it is her social responsibility to bring it to your attention. Just knowing that you have discussed it with your son (one way or the other) is probably enough for her.
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xcgates
Member
Heh, I got in a bit of trouble one time when I told a teacher where she could shove an intrusive (IMO), personal assignment. I thought it was worded creatively, however the adults that got involved thought otherwise.
In principle though, my parent's agreed. Never really heard what the principal thought, but I doubt he would have been my pal in that situation. (Sorry, too good to pass up the principal pal thing)
My parents did bring me up to be careful what I said to anyone in authority though, like some of the questions I got at the doctor's, or school officials, etc. Did not apply to people like pastors though.
*It could also be noted I left the assignment later than I should have, so it was also quicker to write a scathing response than actually do it, but I still stand by my response. Scripted on the bus and all.
In principle though, my parent's agreed. Never really heard what the principal thought, but I doubt he would have been my pal in that situation. (Sorry, too good to pass up the principal pal thing)
My parents did bring me up to be careful what I said to anyone in authority though, like some of the questions I got at the doctor's, or school officials, etc. Did not apply to people like pastors though.
*It could also be noted I left the assignment later than I should have, so it was also quicker to write a scathing response than actually do it, but I still stand by my response. Scripted on the bus and all.
22-rimfire
Member
I'd skip the safe stuff and just say that the firearms are locked up until your kids are old enough to shoot with Dad. It really isn't any of their business.
When I was a kid, my favorite doodles were drawing tanks, half-tracks, jeeps, nazi crosses, guns, etc.... you get the point. I even won an art contest with a drawing of sporting equipment when I was in grade school. Firearms and hunting was central to my entire childhood.
Things have changed. Not good. Too many idiots around.
When I was a kid, my favorite doodles were drawing tanks, half-tracks, jeeps, nazi crosses, guns, etc.... you get the point. I even won an art contest with a drawing of sporting equipment when I was in grade school. Firearms and hunting was central to my entire childhood.
Things have changed. Not good. Too many idiots around.
fallout mike
Member
I agree with 22 rimfire. Things have changed and there ate a lot of idiots. Some schools just look for things to get social services involved these days. U don't wanna give too much info.
stickhauler
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Sadly, that type of attitude has been around in education for quite some time. One of my grandsons was suspended for 3 days for drawing a "gun" when he was in elementary school. Maybe like 3rd grade, and he's currently 23 and serving in the Air Force. This was in a rural school district near Dayton, Ohio.
His dad wouldn't fight the suspension, and as a grandparent, I wasn't able to. It still makes me a little upset that his dad allowed them to do so without any effort to respond.
His dad wouldn't fight the suspension, and as a grandparent, I wasn't able to. It still makes me a little upset that his dad allowed them to do so without any effort to respond.
paramedic70002
Member
How about, "I am training him to join the resistance." Ah the fun that would cause.
My son has on occasion brought up guns in school in drawings, essays, etc. So far no repercussions but I'm waiting.
Sent from the Western fringe of Hampton Roads.
My son has on occasion brought up guns in school in drawings, essays, etc. So far no repercussions but I'm waiting.
Sent from the Western fringe of Hampton Roads.
WardenWolf
member
If you're lucky, it will end right here. If not, she may report you to CPS or something and make your life miserable. School officials can be truly evil sometimes.
dkk73
Member
Good job. Thanks for being positive. The number of snarky, defensive, provocative comments goes to show how easy it is to take offense, presume malice, etc.
Teachers have a tough job, and a lot of the hands they are dealt are not enviable. Disturbed kids, drugs, guns in the hands of thugs, people who learn about life, combat, and the world on TV and YouTube.
I think you're being a great ambassador. Teachable moment, as they say.
Cheers,
David
Teachers have a tough job, and a lot of the hands they are dealt are not enviable. Disturbed kids, drugs, guns in the hands of thugs, people who learn about life, combat, and the world on TV and YouTube.
I think you're being a great ambassador. Teachable moment, as they say.
Cheers,
David
oerllikon
Member
Excellent letter, but I would just be a little more careful about the use of the word "weapon". you and I dont think too much of it, but it may make firearms a little more "evil" to people who shun them or otherwise
TexasBill
Member
I'd keep it short and simple. You don't need the rules of firearm safety; you're not trying to train Mrs. Bell, you are putting Tyler's response into context. You are also positioning his interest in firearms in terms of a time-honored family tradition of sport and safety and positioning yourself as a concerned parent who takes the steps to ensure firearms safety. This will make it more difficult for Mrs. Bell, if she is so inclined, to respond negatively to you or, more important, to Tyler, as it will put her in direct conflict with a student's parents.
"Mrs. Bell,
Re: Grade 2 assignment to complete the sentence "I am not too young to__________."
Thank you for your note of <date>, in which you express hope that when my son Tyler completed the above sentence by answering "to shoot a gun," he was speaking only of a toy gun.
As a matter of fact, I believe Tyler was speaking of his hope that he will soon be old enough to shoot a real gun, something he has yet to do.
Tyler's interest no doubt comes from our family's traditional enjoyment of the outdoors, hunting and the shooting sports. As my father did with me, I am teaching Tyler to appreciate and respect the outdoors and the animals that live there. He is also learning the established rules of firearms safety. When my wife and I decide that Tyler is mature enough to learn the sports of target shooting and hunting, he will have the opportunity to do so in a closely supervised environment.
I am sure that you understand that my child is my pride and joy, and that when it comes to the outdoors I want nothing more than for him to embrace and practice firearms safety. As parents, we take our responsibilities for safety seriously and keep all firearms in our home stored securely.
I hope the above helps to explain my son's interest in guns and alleviates your concerns.
Please feel free to contact me anytime if you have any questions.
Sincerely,"
"Mrs. Bell,
Re: Grade 2 assignment to complete the sentence "I am not too young to__________."
Thank you for your note of <date>, in which you express hope that when my son Tyler completed the above sentence by answering "to shoot a gun," he was speaking only of a toy gun.
As a matter of fact, I believe Tyler was speaking of his hope that he will soon be old enough to shoot a real gun, something he has yet to do.
Tyler's interest no doubt comes from our family's traditional enjoyment of the outdoors, hunting and the shooting sports. As my father did with me, I am teaching Tyler to appreciate and respect the outdoors and the animals that live there. He is also learning the established rules of firearms safety. When my wife and I decide that Tyler is mature enough to learn the sports of target shooting and hunting, he will have the opportunity to do so in a closely supervised environment.
I am sure that you understand that my child is my pride and joy, and that when it comes to the outdoors I want nothing more than for him to embrace and practice firearms safety. As parents, we take our responsibilities for safety seriously and keep all firearms in our home stored securely.
I hope the above helps to explain my son's interest in guns and alleviates your concerns.
Please feel free to contact me anytime if you have any questions.
Sincerely,"
David E
Member
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Words mean things. It IS a firearm, so call it that. "weapon" is very broad, to include countless other things that are not firearms. And obviously, it has a negative connotation.
killchain has it backwards. calling an apple and apple makes it pretty clear that you're talking about apples. Calling it simply a "fruit" isn't nearly as descriptive nor informative, since there are many other kinds of fruit.
I didn't know this was 2 pages until I posted my response.
TEXAS BILL HAS THE BEST RESPONSE ABOVE !!!!!!!!!!!
killchain has it backwards. calling an apple and apple makes it pretty clear that you're talking about apples. Calling it simply a "fruit" isn't nearly as descriptive nor informative, since there are many other kinds of fruit.
I didn't know this was 2 pages until I posted my response.
TEXAS BILL HAS THE BEST RESPONSE ABOVE !!!!!!!!!!!
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NavyGuy, I have one in college, one graduating high school in June and one in the fifth grade. Let me tell you, this is not going to be the first letter home from some up-tight academic. One one my son's chums from when they were in the 9th grade made some lame remark to his friends at school. Some girl squealed. The cops came to his house and took stuff out that belonged to his family... just in case.
Now, I get why school administrators have policies in place; but I think we can all agree that most of them are them casting a wide net with the impunity that the government often abuses, especially in the too liberal halls of public education.
Best bet is to keep all answers short, neutral and friendly until the next Parent/Teacher conference. The fewer people in the government related bureaucracies you antagonize, the smoother your child's educational experience will be; not to mention the greater your chances of avoiding a visit from "Family Services"" or "Child Welfare" will be.
It's wrong to have to tip-toe around these constitutional chiselers; but as long as you know you are right and you are teaching your children how to behave responsibly around guns, it remains a silent victory that you have the satisfaction of knowing you will always win. Making a loud noise about these issues to teachers sends up a flag. And since the schools are often visited by the local constabulary, and staff is known to gossip on the government's dime; you could stand the risk of the cops nosing around cause the principal "heard" that you are some kind of "gun nut".
Play it off.
Now, I get why school administrators have policies in place; but I think we can all agree that most of them are them casting a wide net with the impunity that the government often abuses, especially in the too liberal halls of public education.
Best bet is to keep all answers short, neutral and friendly until the next Parent/Teacher conference. The fewer people in the government related bureaucracies you antagonize, the smoother your child's educational experience will be; not to mention the greater your chances of avoiding a visit from "Family Services"" or "Child Welfare" will be.
It's wrong to have to tip-toe around these constitutional chiselers; but as long as you know you are right and you are teaching your children how to behave responsibly around guns, it remains a silent victory that you have the satisfaction of knowing you will always win. Making a loud noise about these issues to teachers sends up a flag. And since the schools are often visited by the local constabulary, and staff is known to gossip on the government's dime; you could stand the risk of the cops nosing around cause the principal "heard" that you are some kind of "gun nut".
Play it off.
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