My wife gave me the go ahead on a new rifle!

[mickeydim468]

Alright guys, I need your help to decide which one to go with. I am going to use it for Black Bear and Elk hunting this year here on the Oregon coast. I have my deer rifle, which is a Weatherby Vangard in .243 Win. I love this rifle. The fit and feel of this rifle is tremendous. I can shoot it very well. Sub Moa out to 300 yards now.

For this reason I am going with another Weatherby Vangard. My problem now is to choose the cartridge... I was thinking about either a 300 Win Mag or the 300 Win Short Mag. What do you think?

Remember, I have my 1917 Remington in 30-06 but I feel it is not enough gun for bear. Even with my reloads, I worry that the 20" barrel is too short to build enough velocity to create enough ft. lbs of knockdown power for bear. Since I worry, I am not comfortable with it, therefore I need more gun. I wanted to stay in the .30 caliber range, because I already have quite a few bullets and reloading supplies for .30 caliber.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated as usual!

Thanks guys! and Gals if you want to comment too!

Mikey!

 

[C-grunt]

I would think the Win mag would be a little easier to find, but the WSM have less recoil, from what I have heard. I think both cartridges are pretty similar and therefor you would be suited with either.

Can the WSM shoot the heavy bullets like the standard Win mag?

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

The 06' carbine is plenty for black bear (double so if from a stand over bait). Otherwise, I choose the 300 Win-Mag because of ammo availability.

 

[Offfhand]

Have to say that your old '06 is plenty powerful for black bear and then some. But that's not the point, the real point is that you NEED and DESERVE a new rifle! Isn't that true? The Vanguard is a fine rifle and one of the best dollar values you'll find. Go with the faithful .300 Win Mag. It's easy to load for with many loading options.
Shoot well, often, and safely....
Offfhand

 

[surjimmy]

I traded my 300 winn mag for a 300wsm, I have a bad neck and back and the wsm has less recoil. If your nor set on the Weatherby you might check out the Tikka T3, it's about the best rifle I have ever owned. I shoot Winchester Power Points and it will put 3 shots inside a penny at 100 yards. C-grunt, yes to your question.

 

[mickeydim468]

I think you need a new wife. One who doesn't require you get her OK to buy yourself something you want.

SP,

You know, I really don't like this kind of comment regarding me or my wife. I will say this... My wife and I are a team, and if teams do not communicate and work together, they end up with a whole bunch of losses, therefore, we communicate and we decide what is best for our family. Since this is the case, and, we obviously do not NEED a new rifle, for me to shoot. and this is a substantial purchase, not just a soda or a meal, I do discuss these things with her. If she were to say no to me on this, she would have to have a very good reason, which is why she said ok! Thing is, I would get mad as heck with her if she were to go out and buy something for hundreds of dollars without asking me, why should I think she would be any different.

Bottom line SP, Please keep your male chauvinistic comments to yourself! I for one do not appreciate them!

Mikey!

 

[HGUNHNTR]

The 30-06 will do just fine. "knockdown Power" is a marketing term, not a scientific measurement. Choose a good bullet (Nosler Trophy Bonded, or similar) and you'll be fine.

 

[mickeydim468]

Can the WSM shoot the heavy bullets like the standard Win mag?

According to my reloading manuals... The WSM goes from 110Gr to 220Gr and the Win Mag goes from 110Gr. to 250Gr. So, the answer would be no.

But that's not the point, the real point is that you NEED and DESERVE a new rifle! Isn't that true?

Absolutely!

See if you can trade the wife for a new rifle ;-)

See my above post for what I think about this comment. Enough about my wife guys!

 

[usmc1371]

First let me say Lucky! Good wife you got who cares what anyone else says.

I have killed a good sized black bear in eastern oregon with 30-06 22" barrel it worked just fine in fact on the coast the short barrel may be a dream to pack. I shoot 300wm now and hunt all over oregon i would highly recomend it, I have lots of friends who are going to the 300wsm and I think it is a great round, my buddy has a tikka t3 in 300 wsm and it is a sweet shooting LIGHT rifle I would highly recomend one to you. I have switched back and forth between 30-06 and 300wm for the last 10 years and so far I don't think anything in oregon can tell the dif between 180g nosler partition form one or the other they just die and then I eat them. Good luck

 

[Arkel23]

I would suggest the .300 win mag over the WSM, because of the ammo prices, if you get the WSM, you need to get the .300 Weatherby Mag, because the ammo prices are around the same area, and the Weatherby Mag has better ballistics.

 

[usmc1371]

side note: I think the 300wm and wsm are both at home with 180g bullets wich ever brand shoots best in your rifle. Throw 30-06 in there to mine loves 180 NP's. I have never seen a real need to shoot heavier bullets in 30 cal, thats what 338 and 375 are for.

yesterday at sportsmans wharehouse in portland the price for 300wm and wsm is within a couple bucks, add 20bucks a box for 300 weatherby

 

[UnTainted]

"they just die and then I eat them."

Oh that's a great line usmc1371. I think it's signature worthy, I do consider quoting you on that in my sig...

as to the OP,
I'd say go with the 300WM, if you ever travel to hunt, and forget your ammo, the WM is more available than the WSM, though the 300WSM is pretty highly available these days. Out of the country, the 300WM is almost as available as the 30-06. Very popular and mature caliber.

 

[mickeydim468]

OK,

Here is one more thing to throw in the mix.

A local shop has a 300 Win Mag for $369.00 NIB and a 300 Win Short Mag Kit with case, sling, and scope for $499.00 NIB. The 300 WM has a target showing 1.25 MOA and the WSM has a target showing .75 MOA. Do you think I could load the 300WM to achieve the sub-moa that the WSM is already showing? Is this enough reason to go for the extra $130.00. It has a cheapo Bushnell 3-9-32 scope, a plastic carry case and a sling, big whoop! So, the real deciding factor between the 2 rifles would be the accuracy and the availability of the brass, right?

 

[Tim the student]

You know, I really don't like this kind of comment regarding me or my wife. I will say this... My wife and I are a team, and if teams do not communicate and work together, they end up with a whole bunch of losses, therefore, we communicate and we decide what is best for our family. Since this is the case, and, we obviously do not NEED a new rifle, for me to shoot. and this is a substantial purchase, not just a soda or a meal, I do discuss these things with her. If she were to say no to me on this, she would have to have a very good reason, which is why she said ok! Thing is, I would get mad as heck with her if she were to go out and buy something for hundreds of dollars without asking me, why should I think she would be any different.

I'm with you on this one. Saxon Pig, no need for comments like that. You don't know what it's like for this guy and his wife. Maybe they are saving up to put a down payment on a house, or are sending a kid through school, or like he said, they just have a rule about talking to each other if you are going to spend over X amount of dollars.

Have fun with your new rifle, whatever you decide to get.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Pay NO attention to wife comments....some have wives that rule the roost and WILL NOT let their hubbies purchase new toys.lol hehehehe

This is why we hear rude 'wife' comments!

I totally disagree with you on your assumption that a 30-06 is not adequate for black bear....but what a boring place this would be if we all agreed... on firearms and ammo, anyway! lol hehehe Hell, I have used the 30-06 for just about everything that walks or crawls and have NEVER had a concern... with in reason, of course.

As for your question... I love the 300 Win Mag... the 165gr bullet out of this round will down most anything short of a Russian MIG... the 180gr for 'tougher' critters.

However.... given the two choices... I would get the 300WSM... IF I am going to get a truly SHORT action rifle...no reason for this decision, other than I'm into the Short Mags nowadays, I personally cannot discern any appreciable amount of recoil between the two, so...

P.S. Do you think you could have your wife speak to my wife....lol

 

[mickeydim468]

From one Uncle Mike to another!

I didn't have to get her permission, so that wasn't really the issue here. We just needed to discuss it. Mike and Tim, You are correct, we have 4 kids, school is starting again soon, one of them just got out of the Navy and hasn't been able to find work in So. Cal. so money has been tight. We needed to discuss whether now would be ok to get the rifle since I got paid three times this month instead of two. Obviously we decided it would be OK to do it this month. She was a bit weary, but she wasn't too hard to convince since my birthday was last Saturday. The thing is... she wanted me to ask you guys what you thought about the two different cartridges. She will be reading this thread, and when SaxonPig wrote that, my teeth about fell out! Talk about a way to talk her out of the whole idea! Thanks SaxonPig!

Anyway, I am not mad about it. Just a poor choice of time to bring that up is all!

Mikey!

 

[usmc1371]

the plus side to the WM is the varity of factory ammo out there, if you get the kit PLEASE take the cheap scope off befor you hunt the coast the wet air will play hell with it I have made that mistake befor, good scope for your 22. I really love my bushnell 4200 2.5x10 scopes they excell in the rain.

 

[Tim the student]

if you get the kit PLEASE take the cheap scope off....

For real, take it off and sell it and get a better scope. I don't have any experience with a cheapo Bushnell scope, but I do have experience with a cheapo Simmons on my .270 Savage. Apparently it took all it could take Sunday when recoil apparently knocked the reticle loose. So now I am looking for a new scope, and have a worthless scope I could have sold initially. I'm happy it didn't happen during a hunt.

 

[paintballdude902]

dude.... your .30-06 is plenty for black bear we have the world record black bear here (weight not skull size) that was close to 1000 lbs the .30-06 is plenty ive taken one with it and it was a 400 unless you have a honey hole hiding 1000 plus bears your .30-06 will do it

if you really want a new gun go for it a .300 win mag will handle just about any animal you come across except maybe a kodiak

 

[Uncle Mike]

Do you think I could load the 300WM to achieve the sub-moa that the WSM is already showing?

WM...? Winchester Mag. or Weatherby Mag...?

As for the 300 Win Mag... YES, the Win Mag can be massaged to produce phenomenal accuracy... many a record have been set using this round, and at looonng range!

Can that very gun offered in the shop you were in produce sub MOA groups with reloads... who knows.
Redneck welder math says.... the 300 WSM has proof thereof that it will indeed produce sub MOA grouping... should get better with home rolled fodder.

As for the 1.25" 300 Win Mag.... 1.25" may be all the better the barrel of that rifle will let it do... even with reloads. Reloading does however further accuracy.

The additional items that manufacturers include with many package firearms are just ballast used to make you think your getting a 'deal', in reality you are paying for it...

There aint nothing free but the Love of Jesus....!

I should think the 300WSM would be the 'deal', in this case.

 

[mickeydim468]

OK, It's go time. I am going this afternoon to pick up my new rifle. Did you guys not read that my wife is going to read this??? I convinced her that I NEEDED the 300Win Mag or WSM for Black Bear!

Anyway, Last Question!

If you had to choose between a $369.00 rifle that shoots 3 shots within 1.25" at a test target at 100 yds, and a $499.00 rifle that shoots .75" 3 shot group on a test target, which would you buy?

 

[deALPHAmale]

Remington 700

I know nothing about hunting bear or elk, but my Rem 700 in .308 is a dream to shoot, and I would assume any other caliber would follow the same.

I have the SPS Varmint which comes stock with a 26" heavy barrel and I consistently get .75" MOA groups with the factory loadout at 100 yards

 

[Tim the student]

If you had to choose between a $369.00 rifle that shoots 3 shots within 1.25" at a test target at 100 yds, and a $499.00 rifle that shoots .75" 3 shot group on a test target, which would you buy?

How far do you think you will be shooting?

Do you reload?

I would think that you can find a load that will shoot less than MOA with the cheaper rifle, if accuracy is your main concern. I would go for the cheaper rifle and put a nicer scope on it personally.

 

[usmc1371]

You really really really NEED a NEW 300 win and or 300wsm for any bear in oregon, the one I killed with a 30-06 was most likely an incredable fluke and would have died of cancer soon anyways. And you will need a good scope to--- you know for your personal safety, I asume your wife wants you to return from bear hunting.

as for accuracy there is not enough billistic dif to justify not getting the 300wsm.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Well let's see....$130 will get some nice jewelry...whoops!

Now your into the money end of the equation... Get the cheaper rifle, be satisfied with the fact it may not tighten up any tighter than 1.25" with reloads... and use that extra cash for a 'better' scope.

You did not say how much you plan to burn up on a scope, but an extra $130 will definitely make a difference between a so so scope and a good scope.

1.25" is a good group anyway! At what range was that group shot at, by the way...?