Mysterious Brown Bess

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J

JOBL

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Folks, this is my first post here, tho I am active on other forums.
A second pattern Brown Bess came into my shop in pieces, it has fallen off the wall upon which it was displayed. My assignment was to put it back together and make it look presentable. There was about 250 years worth of crud, grease & dust on it. As I was removing about 150 years of crud, inscriptions became evident: on the barrel was engraved:"ROYL IB FUZILIERS", a brass escutcheon was marked:" E/42". The lock was marked "Farmer 1762", with the Crown over GR and the King's Broadarrow stamp. Farmer was one of a number of contract gunsmiths in Birmingham producing arms for the Crown. At some point the lock was converted, which suggests that the gun gave good service to its owners for over 150 years. But what to make of the engraving?
The Seventh Regiment of Foot served in North America during the Revolutionary War, notably the battles of Montreal, Cowpens, and Yorkshire where men and material were surrendered. Could this musket have been surrendered at one of these battles? I suspect that if I could decipher the "IB" and the E/42, it might be possible to identify to which company or batallion this firearm was assigned.

Any thoughts? Any resources to suggest?
 

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The slant bar of the N is broken. The marking reads "Royal N[orth] B[ritain] Fuziliers", aka the 21st Regiment of Foot, which was sent to Canada in the American Revolution and in 1777 participated in the march to Saratoga, where they surrendered en masse to the Americans. E/42 is E Comany, weapon number 42.

(North Britain was a term used from the 1600's until the late 19th century for the Scottish lowlands. Incredible as it may seem, the British Post Office put an end to the "NB" abbreviation because it was confused with London N8.)

Jim
 
I passed on information contained in The Brown Bess (Goldstein & Mowbray) which I had not confirmed and I apologize.

The book, though, has an excellent picture of the marking on a Model 1756 Long Land Pattern musket, which appears to be identical to that in your picture, except that the "N" is complete. (Note that the right hand side of the "N" is also the left hand side of the "B", so the letters are combined, not separated.)

Given the long service of the "Bess", I would assume that the regiment might well still have been using that pattern musket and/or that marking, in the 1812 time period.

I failed to find any regiment which would have used an "IB" or "JB" marking. If the letters are not "NB", I am stumped and can only wish you luck in your research.

Jim
 
The 21st was also known as the Royal Scots. The lineage now rests at the castle in Edinburgh, Scotland. They were called the Royal North British Fuslilers up until 1877. After that they were the Royal Scotts. I was there in 2009 trying to follow up with the unit historian. I was going to ask about my GGGrandfather William Henry Peddie and his father (I believe his name was Thomas who were both in the 21st Afoot) Royal Scots. William Henry was born in New Foundland Canada where his father was stationed. He had been in the American Colonies fighting the rebels during what we call the Revolutionary war. Unfortunately the unit historian was gone and I did not have a second day to try to look him up.

William Henry later fought Napoleon's troops in the Netherlands with the Royal Scots. William Henrys brother has a town named after him in South Africa. Both William Henry and his father were the military governors (Fort Major) of Stirling Castle. Both supposedly had close relations with the Royal Scots until their deaths. I have located William Henry's grave but not his fathers.

Having that Musket in your hands is a very special privilege. At least in my opinion. kwg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Scots_Fusiliers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Regiments_of_Foot
 
I took a look at the "NB" under magnification. There are very faint indications that the first letter is indeed an "N". I'll talk with the owner to see if there are any stories about the musket. If so, I'll share them.
Thank you all very much for your input.
John
 
Hi, Sunray and JOBL

I have been doing some further digging, and it looks like my source is correct. Here is a link to the official history of the regiment and it clearly places them in Burgoyne's forces and in the surrender at Saratoga, giving, in fact a fair amount of detail on the engagements in that area.

They later served in America during the War of 1812. The book below is fascinating; I especially recommend the 1804 section (page 29) for a look at how a minor disagreement got out of hand.

http://www.archive.org/stream/historicalrecord00clarrich#page/n9/mode/2up

Jim
 
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I thought I'd read that the 21st Regiment of Foot was involved at Saratoga, but it was a vague recollection. Time to hit the books again.
 
On the Royal NB Fusiliers service, I don't think that document leaves much doubt. Of course, we need to understand that the Royal North British Fusiliers, the Royal Scots Fusiliers, and the 21st Regiment of Foot were all the same unit, just with the name changed in accordance with the current practice.

And, of course, Wikipedia is not always reliable and probably should never be considered accurate without other verification.

Jim
 
Just as a note, I strongly suggest that any members of our armed forces looking at this thread peruse the regimental history mentioned. The conditions under which the British soldier served were absolutely appalling, and I do not refer to combat conditions.

Jim
 
"Hi, Sunray and JOBL

I have been doing some further digging, and it looks like my source is correct. Here is a link to the official history of the regiment and it clearly places them in Burgoyne's forces and in the surrender at Saratoga, giving, in fact a fair amount of detail on the engagements in that area.

They later served in America during the War of 1812. The book below is fascinating; I especially recommend the 1804 section (page 29) for a look at how a minor disagreement got out of hand.

http://www.archive.org/stream/histor...ge/n9/mode/2up

Jim"

On page 105 John Crofton Peddie is mentioned. He is the brother of my GGGgrandfather and the son of my GGGGgrandfather.
I found this on page 47. Yes, this Brown Bess has been an interesting find.
 

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NB stands for the North British Fusiliers, 21st Regiment of Foot (see Erik Goldstein, The Brown Bess: An Identification Guide and Illustrated Study of Britain's Most Famous Musket, page 9). From page 128 of DeWitt Bailey's Small Arms of the British Forces inAmerica 1664-1815: "The 21st Foot (Royal Scots Fusiliers) were all armed with light muskets in 1678, and the grenadier company, which was added in July 1682, also received 60 fusils. Although designated as the North British Fusiliers in 1707, and Royal from 1713, their distinctive arms had gone the way of others long before either of these dates." The regiment fought Belleisle during the Seven Years War. They are mentioned on page 56 and 60 in my book as having fought under Burgoyne at Saratoga (specifically Freeman's Farm).

As for the wrist piece, E indicates the company of which the musket is the 42nd in the rack.

Finally on the issue of percussion fired Brown Besses, yes, they were subject to conversion too.
 
I suspect that particular Brown Bess became a cap lock when someone decided to update an old musket so he could go hunting. Many thousands of old flint muskets were converted, some by governments for budgetary reasons, some by private owners for convenience and ease of use.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall any mass conversions of the Brown Bess, by either the British or the American armies; by the time the caplock came into common use c. 1840, the Bess was obsolete. (Tens of thousands of American Model 1816 and 1840 flintlock muskets were converted to percussion from the 1840's through the Civil War, but those were much more modern guns to begin with.)

Jim
 
Last fall this particular thread made mention of the 21st of Foot, a unit from Edinburgh Scotland. A unit my gggrandfather and his father were members of. It seems it got the attention of a reader in South Africa who's wife is also related to my gggrandfather. We have been communicating back and forth for several days now.

It's amazing how powerful the internet is and it seems this forum is read world wide. I'm sure many folks across the world are envious of us and what we have at our disposal.
kwg
 
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thanks for reving this treat wich originally escaped my attention

the regiment report is a great read.

Also great: the regiment fought in my neighborhoud in Belgium between 1650 and 1702, I have copies at home of the 1777 military maps made by the Austrian army un der count De Ferraris and one can just follow the marches etc

keep up the good work
 
Vaupet said:

Also great: the regiment fought in my neighborhoud in Belgium between 1650 and 1702, I have copies at home of the 1777 military maps made by the Austrian army un der count De Ferraris and one can just follow the marches etc
Click to expand...

It's a small world.

kwg
 
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