Mystery 1911

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killchain

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Hello THR,

I just inherited a 1911 yesterday. I was hoping I could get some help identifying it.

On the right hand side of the slide it says, "Ejercito Argentino" and "Sist. Colt, Cal. 11.25mm. Mod. 1927"

The serial number is in the 32xxx range. On the frame the serial number is above the trigger, and in VERY TINY print above it is the words, "GIBBS, MARIBURG WVA" or maybe it's "MARTBURG." Not sure.

On the left side it says "D.G.F.M. - (F.M.A.P.)"

Sorry the pictures are grainy. My field camera sucks.
 

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Argentina adopted the 1911 platform as their military sidearm in 1927. At some point, they purchased some of the Colt tooling and began making a civilian version as well (my memory is fuzzy on this...). I'm sure someone with more knowledge will jump in. I recently saw an article on the Argentinian pistol in Gun Collector and/or Guns & Ammo. From what I understand, they are good pistols. The Gibbs stamp on the side is the US importer. It would have been placed there when the gun was imported into the US.
 
The M1927's are indeed good pistols. There was a flood of them 15 or 20 years ago and people were snapping them up to build custom shooters on. Now, they are collectible in themselves.

The one picture has already had some work on it, so you might as well shoot and enjoy it.
 
The M1927's are indeed good pistols. There was a flood of them 15 or 20 years ago and people were snapping them up to build custom shooters on. Now, they are collectible in themselves.

The one picture has already had some work on it, so you might as well shoot and enjoy it.
Which picture? On one of them I edited out the serial numbers after taking the picture with MS Paint. Looking at the pistol, it doesn't look like it's had any after market work unless those grips aren't what came with it.

Also, since I do plan on using it as a shooter, is it the same standards as your run-of-the-mill 1911 pistol?
 
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/sistema.htm

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?21142-The-Colt-Systema-model-1927

I'll let you do the reading, but in summary:

Your pistol is a classic all-steel Argentine Sistema Colt 1911, probably manufactured in 1946. After the US adopted the 1911, so did Argentina. They contracted with Colt to set up a factory and tooling in Argentina. The Argentine Colts were produced using Colt designed tooling, Colt blueprints, and Colt production supervision and are generally regarded as being the equal of domestically US produced Hartford products. They are especially popular today as great base platforms for custom projects because they reflect the same old-school all-steel quality construction of pre-war GI guns...at about 1/3 to 1/4 of today's market price for an original 1911A1 or Colt commercial Government Model. The design is a Colt licensed clone of their 1911. Except for markings and a few cosmetic touches, they are pure Colt.

Looking at the pistol, it doesn't look like it's had any after market work unless those grips aren't what came with it.

The grips are commercial aftermarket (probably rosewood vice plastic originals).
The sights (front & rear) are commercial aftermarket replacements
The barrel bushing is a commercial replacement
The skeletonized hammer is an after market replacement
The front strap of the grip has been professionally stippled
Hard to tell from photo, but the safety lever appears to be a replacement
The grip safety is a modern replacement with beaver tail & memory bump
The entire weapon has been refinished
I can't tell for certain from the photo, but I see no serial # on barrel hood (indicating a replacement commercial barrel as well)

In a nutshell, someone took an imported mil-surplus Argentine Systema Colt, and semi-customized it. A very common project undertaken when these guns hit the market back in the 80's through early 2000's. I have two, one of which is set up in a very similar manner.

On an all-original weapon, the barrel hood (exposed top of the barrel visible in the ejection port) should reflect the same serial number as the slide and frame. As well, the original magazine for the weapon had a matching serial # on the magazine floor plate. Of course, during their decades of service, magazines were routinely mixed up in Argentine arms rooms and gun belts, so the likelihood of the gun having an actual matching serial numbered magazine is astronomically unlikely.

F.M.A.P. stamped on the left side of the slide refers to Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles (F.M.A.P.), the Argentine national ordnance factory/armory. Yours appears to be a former Argentine military-issue pistol (probably Army).

Assuming it shoots well and has no mechanical issues, your pistol appears to be a nice gun that someone put some thoughtful work into. If I owned that pistol and decided to sell it, I'd ask $700 for it. I'd take no less than $600.

Pistol customization is a dicey proposition in that owners incorrectly assume that after market work adds to the value of their firearm, when the opposite is generally true. $500 work or parts added to a $500 weapon does not equal a $1000 dollar value.

In this case, the work seems nicely done and I think folks would pay a small premium for a combat ready weapon that started life as a quality steel Colt with no MIM or alloy parts.

Sistemas (also spelled Systema) sold for $200-$300 as imported surplus (before the supply dried up); they have been steadily climbing in value ever since (as have Chinese Norincos) and now routinely fetch $500- $600. So many were modified by shooters, that few remain in original military/police issue form. Thus, like M1903 Springfield rifles, collectors are beginning to pay more for specimens in good original condition.


It's a nice gun. I'd hang on to it and enjoy it.

Hope this helps...
 
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Thanks a lot, Chindo18Z! That pretty much summed it up for me, haha.

I came to find out the previous owner had won it in the early 1990's as a door prize at the local range. I figured it had been refinished, but the job was done well enough I wasn't sure. Also, you are correct about the barrel and magazine, they do not have serial numbers matching (at all, actually.)

But again, thanks for all the information. I'm kind of relieved I got a shooter instead of a safe queen. The person who left this to me would want it that way anyhow.
 
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