N Korea threatens US with first strike (AGAIN!)

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Kim Jong Il is attempting to externalize his internal problems and he's doing a very good job of it. Starting the reactor was sure to get lots of foreign attention, but the rhetoric is aimed primarily at his own people to justify and rationalize the hardships they've endured his entire life. While he lives like French royaly, his people starve ... but he isn't French and he's much better at controlling his problems than Louis.

What Kim wants is another handout from the West and he's playing the nuclear card to get it. President Bush meantime is just feeding out the rope, biding his time and not acting too concerned. You can be sure that there is a lot going on with Russia and PRC.

Between South Korea and the U.S. Forces there is a lot of firepower in the area now. Kitty Hawk has apparently been ordered to the Gulf, but Vinson is moving to WestPac and Nimitz has completed work-ups on the West Coast. What we need now is two carrier battle groups in the Sea of Japan and then we can bring back Exercise Team Spirit. This is low level brinksmanship and Kim is going to lose.
 
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He still doesn't believe it cause he's never heard of the Guardian. He hasn't heard anything about it on CNN.

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Whew, I hope you never have to depend on any KNOWLEDGE from this person for anything important!:what:
 
Considering the Guardian dates back to 1855, your brother needs to do his homework.

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Britain's Regional Press - A Brief History


Britain's press can trace its history back more than 300 years, to the time of William of Orange. Berrow's Worcester Journal, which started life as the Worcester Postman in 1690 and was published regularly from 1709, is believed to be the oldest surviving English newspaper.
William Caxton had introduced the first English printing press in 1476 and, by the early 16th century, the first 'news papers' were seen in Britain. They were, however, slow to evolve, with the largely illiterate population relying on town criers for news.

Between 1640 and the Restoration, around 30,000 'news letters' and 'news papers' were printed, many of which can be seen today in the British Museum.

The first regular English daily newspaper, the Daily Courant, was launched with the reign of Queen Anne in 1702.


1476 William Caxton sets up the first English printing press in Westminster.
1549 First known English newsletter: Requests of the Devonshyre and Cornyshe rebelles.
1621 First titled newspaper, Corante, published in London.
1649 Cromwell suppressed all newsbooks on the eve of Charles I's execution.
1690 Worcester Postman launched. (In 1709 it starts regular publication as Berrow's Worcester Journal, considered to be the oldest surviving English newspaper).
1702 Launch of the first regular daily newspaper: The Daily Courant.
1709 First Copyright Act; Berrow's Worcester Journal, considered the oldest surviving English newspaper, started regular publication.
1712 First Stamp Act; advertisement, paper and stamp duties condemned as taxes on knowledge. Stamford Mercury believed to have been launched.
1718 Leeds Mercury started (later merged into Yorkshire Post).
1737 Belfast News Letter founded (world's oldest surviving daily newspaper).
1748 Aberdeen Journal began (Scotland's oldest newspaper - now the Press & Journal).
1772 Hampshire Chronicle launched, Hampshire's oldest paper.
1788 Daily Universal Register (est. 1785) became The Times.
1791 The Observer launched.
1835 Libel Act; truth allowed as defence for first time in Britain.
1836 The Newspaper Society founded.
1844 The Southport Visiter first published.
1848 The first issue of the Brechin Advertiser was published on Tuesday 3 October 1848.
1853 Ormskirk Advertiser and Birkenhead News first published.
1855 Stamp duty abolished. Daily Telegraph started as first penny national. Manchester Guardian, The Scotsman and Liverpool Post became daily. Shields Gazette is the first of 17 regional evenings founded this year.
1868 Press Association set up as a national news agency.
1889 First Official Secrets Act
1905 Harmsworth (then Northcliffe) bought The Observer
1906 Newspaper Proprietors Association founded for national dailies.
1907 National Union of Journalists founded as a wage-earners union.
1915 Rothermere launched Sunday Pictorial (later Sunday Mirror).
1922 Death of Northcliffe. Control of Associated Newspapers passed to Rothermere.
1928 Northcliffe Newspapers set up as a subsidiary of Associated Newspapers. Provincial Newspapers set up as a subsidiary of United Newspapers.
1931 Audit Bureau of Circulations formed.
1936 Britain's first colour advertisement appears (in Glasgow's Daily Record).
1944 Iliffe took over BPM Holdings (including Birmingham Post).
1946 Guild of British Newspaper Editors formed (now the Society of Editors).
1953 General Council of the Press established.
1955 Month-long national press strike. Daily Record acquired by Mirror Group.
1959 Manchester Guardian becomes The Guardian. Six-week regional press printing strike.
1960s Photocomposition and web-offset printing progressively introduced.
1964 The Sun launched, replacing Daily Herald. Death of Beaverbrook. General Council of the Press reformed as the Press Council.
1969 Murdoch's News International acquired The Sun and News of the World.
1976 Nottingham Evening Post is Britain's first newspaper to start direct input by journalists.
1978 The Times and The Sunday Times ceased publication for 11 months.
1980 Association of Free Newspaper founded (folded 1991). Regional Newspaper Advertising Bureau formed.
1981 News International acquired The Times and the Sunday Times.
1983 Industrial dispute at Eddie Shah's Messenger group plant at Warrington.
1984 Mirror Group sold by Reed to Maxwell (Pergamon). (Birmingham) Daily News launched as a free.
1986 News International moved titles to a new plant at Wapping. Eddie Shah launched Today, first colour national daily launched. The Independent launched.
1987 News International took over Today.
1988 RNAB folded. Newspaper Society launched PressAd as its commercial arm. Thomson launched Scotland on Sunday and Sunday Life.
1989 Last Fleet Street paper produced by Sunday Express.
1990 First Calcutt report on Privacy and Related Matters. Launch of The European (by Maxwell) and Independent on Sunday.
1991 Press Complaints Commission replaced the Press Council. AFN folded. Death of Robert Maxwell (November). Management buy-out of Birmingham Post and sister titles. Midland Independent Newspapers established.
1992 Management buy-out by Caledonian Newspapers of Lonrho's Glasgow titles, The Herald and Evening Times.
1993 Guardian Media Group bought The Observer. UK News set up by Northcliffe and Westminster Press as rival news agency to the Press Association. Second Calcutt report into self-regulation of the press.
1994 Northcliffe Newspapers bought Nottingham Evening Post for £93m. News International price-cutting sparked off new national cover-price war.
1995 Lord Wakeham succeeded Lord McGregor as chairman of the PCC. Privacy white paper rejected statutory press controls. Most of Thomson's regional titles sold to Trinity. Newsquest formed out of a Reed MBO. Murdoch closes Today (November).
1996 A year of buyouts, mergers and restructuring in the regional press. Regionals win the battle over cross-media ownership (Broadcasting Act). Newspaper Society launches NS Marketing, replacing PressAd.
1997 Midland Independent Newspapers is bought by Mirror Group for £297 million. Human Rights and Data Protection bills are introduced.
1998 Fourth largest regional press publisher, United Provincial Newspapers, is sold in two deals: UPN Yorkshire and Lancashire newspapers sold to Regional Independent Media for £360m and United Southern Publications sold to Southnews for £47.5m. Southern Newspapers changes its name to Newscom, following acquisitions in Wales and the West (including UPN Wales in 1996). Death of Lord Rothermere. Chairmanship of Associated Newspapers passes to his son Jonathan Harmsworth. Death of David English, editor-in-chief of Daily Mail and chairman of the editors' code committee.
1999 Trinity merges with Mirror Group Newspapers in a deal worth £1.3 billion. Newsquest is bought by US publisher Gannett for £904 million. Portsmouth & Sunderland Newspapers is bought by Johnston Press for £266m. Major regional press groups launch electronic media alliances (eg, This is Britain, Fish4 sites.) Freedom of Information bill introduced. Associated launches London's free commuter daily, Metro.
2000 Newscom is sold to Newsquest Media Group for £444m, Adscene titles are sold to Southnews (£52m)and Northcliffe Newspapers, Belfast Telegraph Newspapers are sold by Trinity Mirror to Independent News & Media for £300m, Bristol United Press is sold to Northcliffe Newspapers Group, and Southnews is sold to Trinity Mirror for £285m. Daily Express and Daily Star are sold by Lord Hollick's United News & Media to Richard Desmond's Northern & Shell, publisher of OK and soft-porn titles. Launch of Scottish business daily Business a.m. and more Metro daily frees. Newspaper Society launches internet artwork delivery system AdFast. Communications white paper published.
2001 RIM buys six Galloway and Stornaway Gazette titles, Newsquest buys Dimbleby Newspaper Group and Johnston Press buys four titles from Morton Media Group. UK Publishing Media formed. Sunday Business changes name to The Business and publishes on Sunday and Monday.
2002 Johnston Press acquires Regional Independent Media's 53 regional newspaper titles in a £560 million deal. Northcliffe Newspapers Group Ltd acquires Hill Bros (Leek) Ltd. Queen attends Newspaper Society annual lunch. New PCC chairman, Christopher Meyer, announced. Draft Communications Bill published. The Sun and Mirror engage in a price war.
 
My apologies for taking this thread a hard left off topic.


Getting it back on topic.....


It would be a shame if some CIA agents accidently lit a cigarette near some North Korean Army fuel depots.

I really think ALL the NK army can do right now is use their artillery. A mass airstrike on their artillery sites would probably defang them.
 
A mass airstrike on their artillery sites would probably defang them.
A pre-emptive strike on artillery won't work, they're really dug in and there's just too many of them. Seoul would still take a major hit from the incoming rounds, but it would be the U.S.' fault for having restarted the open hostilities.
 
SDC:
These sneaky sh*ts aren't THAT crazy; maybe they're just looking at what hapened to Japan and Germany, and thinking "Hmm, if we LOSE a war, maybe we'll all get Barcaloungers, 21" TV's, and all the McDonald's we can eat, instead of being forced to march in those godforsaken uniforms".
If so, the North Korean regime doesn't understand history very well, as it will be purged before any such development takes place.

Agent Z:
N. Korea is more of threat and demands (like babies) the need for more immediate attention.

Saddam isn't going anywhere. He's boxed in so to speak. If he is producing such weapons we can take care of hime latter. One must admit he has a great poker face with that cigar crammed in his mouth. (I dream of cramming it elsewhere---Bill Clinton)
On the contrary, it is North Korea that is boxed in. Unlike Iraq which has substantial capacity to generate hard currency through petroleum sales, North Korea has no such capacity. North Korea, while dangerous, is not "lethal" to its neighbors to the extent that it is opportunistic rather than domineering.

The situation with Iraq is more "fluid" because of the neighboring countries and their political instability.

I suspect that North Korea's tune will change rather abruptly when the US is victorious in Iraq, and is able to re-allocate military resources to the Pacific.

Lord Grey Boots:
South Korea already has 650K troops right there, and there are 37K US troops there, plus those in Japan etc...
First of all, the JSDF will not be used offensively, so for all intents and purposes, it is useless to us.

As for the ROK forces, they are generally well-trained and capable, but are mostly geared toward defense (static defense at that) rather than a mobile offense. ROK ability to operate offensively is extremely limited (though it has increased relatively greatly of late).

riverdog:
A pre-emptive strike on artillery won't work, they're really dug in and there's just too many of them. Seoul would still take a major hit from the incoming rounds, but it would be the U.S.' fault for having restarted the open hostilities.
I am of the opinion that the capability of the North Korean artillery forces is substantially weaker than credited in the popular media. Its survivability will be very limited.

Will Seoul be safe? Mostly likely not. But the North Koreans are very well aware that their so-called "Sea of Fire" from arty, rocket and battlefield missile forces is a one-shot affair. They are unlikely to commit that suicide.
Kim Il Sung is attempting to externalize his internal problems and he's doing a very good job of it.
Kim Jong-Il, you mean? The elder Kim is dead.
 
Since old Kim decided to go back on the agreement, maybe GWB could offer South Korea a chance to do some Underground Nuke testing, along the DMZ to sorta see if any of our old devices still work.

"Just measuring a little energy Kim, don't worry, used to do it in the Nevada desert all the time."

Kinda a Pakistan/India thing.

It's fun to think about.

Just embargo their shipments at sea to keep nukes either outa their or to keep any they build in there.

Now if Kim and Saddam were to team up... now, there's an issue that needs resolving right now. That'd be interesting to see who chooses what side/team they wanta play on. Sprinkle in some religion based fundamentalist terriers for spice. Who's to benefit from the disruption in the business world? Oil from mid-east, China Trade, etc.

Things like that are fun to think about. Like playing chess.

First strike, huh George?

First strike, huh Kim?

Adios
 
Team Spirit ended not long before I went to Okinawa in 1994, so I was told. That year, because N. Korea was beating the war drums, we lost out on Cobra Gold, too.
 
Team Spirit ended not long before I went to Okinawa in 1994, so I was told. That year, because N. Korea was beating the war drums, we lost out on Cobra Gold, too.
No more calls please. We have a winner!


Klinton the Kommie, rats us out again. Who'd a thunk it? :fire: :fire: :fire:
 
More from our friends in the DPRK...

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/02/06/21127-ap.html

North Korea warns of nuclear disasters

U.S. prepared for contingencies

SEOUL (AP) - North Korea warned Friday that reported U.S. moves to dispatch reinforcements around the Korean peninsula could lead to "horrible nuclear disasters" while Washington said it was preparing for any contingencies.

For days, North Korea has appeared to be creating an atmosphere of crisis, accusing the United States of deploying reinforcements in the region to invade the impoverished country. U.S. officials say any discussions of troop movements would be meant to deter North Korea, not to foreshadow an invasion.

Still, North Korea fears that Washington will become more aggressive toward the communist country if the U.S. military conducts a successful war in Iraq.
"If the U.S. moves to bolster aggression troops are unchecked, the whole land of Korea will be reduced to ashes and the Koreans will not escape horrible nuclear disasters," North Korea's official news agency, KCNA, said Friday.

U.S. President George W. Bush said he called Chinese President Jiang Zemin Friday morning and "reminded him that we have a joint responsibility to uphold the goal ... of a nuclear weapons-free (Korean) peninsula."
Bush repeated that he believed the situation on Korea can still be resolved peacefully but notably ratcheted up the U.S. position by raising the suggestion of the use of a military strike.

"We will continue to work diplomatically to make it very clear to Kim Jong Il that should he expect any kind of aid and help for his people that he must comply with the world's demands that he not develop a nuclear weapon," Bush said.

However, he added. "All options are on the table of course."

By citing "all options," Bush was reminding North Korea that the United States has not ruled out the use of military force.

U.S. officials have spoken before about their ability to respond to any potential hostile action by North Korea, in part to dispel any hopes Pyongyang may have about taking advantage of Bush's focus on Iraq.

North Korea's statement Friday was issued by the Committee for Peaceful Reunification of the Fatherland, a government agency in charge of relations with South Korea.

In line with the North's long-standing strategy to drive a wedge between the United States and ally South Korea, the statement urged the South Koreans to frustrate alleged U.S. plans for a military buildup. It indicated that if war breaks out, the South would not escape devastation either.

"The grave situation where there is the real danger of a new war created by the U.S. imperialists on the Korean peninsula goes to more clearly prove that there exists on the peninsula only confrontation between the Korean nation and the United States," it said.

Concern about North Korea's nuclear program has grown after the country announced earlier this week that it was normalizing operations at its main nuclear facility north of Pyongyang, triggering fears it was about to produce materials of weapons.

North Korean soldiers are holding rallies at their bases, vowing to wage "a life-and-death battle" against the U.S. "imperialists," KCNA said Friday.

The report repeated Pyongyang's position that the nuclear issue can be resolved only through direct negotiations with the United States. It rejected a multilateral approach to the dispute.

North Korea announced in December it would reactivate its nuclear facilities, frozen since 1994, to generate badly needed electricity.

U.S. officials say the amount of electricity that can be generated by the North's facilities is negligible and that the equipment could used to produce nuclear weapons.
The North froze its nuclear facilities in a 1994 energy deal with the United States, but the agreement unravelled after U.S. officials said in October that North Korea had admitted embarking on a second, clandestine nuclear program.

Washington and its allies suspended oil shipments as punishment. The North then took steps to restart the nuclear facilities, expelled UN monitors and withdrew from a global nuclear arms control treaty.

The UN International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-country board of governors will meet next Wednesday to discuss the standoff and is almost certain to send the dispute to the UN Security Council, a move that could lead to economic sanctions against Pyongyang.

Also Friday, in an interview with reporters travelling with him in Europe, U.S. Defence Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said North Korea's decision to expel UN nuclear inspectors and restart its mothballed nuclear reactor is an example of how international safeguards "seem not to be working now" to prevent nuclear materials and knowhow from spreading to dangerous governments and terrorists.
 
You know, I've noticed that as the news comes over the wire, it gets posted on THR really fast with realistic commentary not far behind. I almost dont even watch the news anymore. I just log in here. You guys are making Dan Rathers ratings go down I bet.:neener: :D
 
You know, I've noticed that as the news comes over the wire, it gets posted on THR really fast with realistic commentary not far behind. I almost dont even watch the news anymore. I just log in here. You guys are making Dan Rathers ratings go down I bet.
Well, that's because many THRers are better educated and more experienced in the specific situations than Dan Rather ever will be.

That's why I continue to participate in these forums even when I am too busy to eat. I consider myself to be fairly well-educated, having been schooled at some of the finest unversities in the world. Yet, I learn something new on these forums everyday. Vigorous debates with others on the forums sharpen my own arguments and increase my knowledge.

Of course it's better than TV where a 30 second time frame is about the maximum attention one gets on a specific topic!
 
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Team Spirit ended not long before I went to Okinawa in 1994, so I was told. That year, because N. Korea was beating the war drums, we lost out on Cobra Gold, too.
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No more calls please. We have a winner!

Klinton the Kommie, rats us out again. Who'd a thunk it?
While I'd like to comment more on the US-ROK exercises, I will refrain from doing so and provide a public source of information.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/ex-usfk.htm
 
The Team Spirit exercise, held between 1976 and 1993 by the U.S. and South Korean militaries, was canceled in hopes North Korea would abandon its nuclear program and allow international inspections. Team Spirit continued to be scheduled from 1994 to 1996 but was canceled each year as an incentive to improve relations. About 200,000 U.S. and South Korean servicemembers participted in Team Spirit.
Ah! Hope springs eternal, no?
 
jmbg29:
Ah! Hope springs eternal, no?
Indeed. :)

There is also another point buried in the entire document about the relative importance of the various exercises...
 
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