SWMAN
Member
Rudi, Rudi, Rudi!!!! 
N Y Times, As ’08 Candidate, Giuliani Strikes a New Tone on Guns
- Thread starter gunsmith
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Igloodude
Member
Maybe the folks that insist on referring to Obama as "Barack Hussein Obama" should start calling Rudy "Rudolph William Louis Giuliani III".
SkiLune
Member
I lived in New York and worked in NYC during Giuliani's administration. He did clean up crime by hiring an excellent police commissioner (Bratton) who did community policing and went after small crime (like turnstile jumping), thus catching big crooks. My praise for Rudy ends there.
I am convinced the man would either seize or outlaw all of our handguns, force federal registration, or something similar. After crime fell in NYC, he actually became pretty unpopular because of autocratic over-reach: he started pushing the police to go after J-walking and people spitting gum on the sidewalks. Check it out: I am not making this up.
Then 9/11 happened, and his autocratic style worked well during a crisis, proving again (to me at least) that a man's greatest strengths are also his greatest weaknesses.
Look, the man made his mark on the world by being a US Attorney. He used the unconstitutional RICO statutes to destroy the mafia in NYC. A good end result, but I don't believe that a President should have a Machavellian streak (other than fighting the Islamofascists, that is....) He will bring that mindset to the WH, should we be so unfortunate as to have Rudy win the Primary.
He is anti Second Amendment.
I am convinced the man would either seize or outlaw all of our handguns, force federal registration, or something similar. After crime fell in NYC, he actually became pretty unpopular because of autocratic over-reach: he started pushing the police to go after J-walking and people spitting gum on the sidewalks. Check it out: I am not making this up.
Then 9/11 happened, and his autocratic style worked well during a crisis, proving again (to me at least) that a man's greatest strengths are also his greatest weaknesses.
Look, the man made his mark on the world by being a US Attorney. He used the unconstitutional RICO statutes to destroy the mafia in NYC. A good end result, but I don't believe that a President should have a Machavellian streak (other than fighting the Islamofascists, that is....) He will bring that mindset to the WH, should we be so unfortunate as to have Rudy win the Primary.
He is anti Second Amendment.
gunsmith
member
if he had just concentrated on thug removal
not fascist style gun control, he would have gotten my vote.
The Right To Life, a basic God given right as enumerated in the Declaration Of Independence, means the right to defend your self with a gun.
It doesn't mean dial 911 and pray they get there in time.
not fascist style gun control, he would have gotten my vote.
The Right To Life, a basic God given right as enumerated in the Declaration Of Independence, means the right to defend your self with a gun.
It doesn't mean dial 911 and pray they get there in time.
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xd9fan
Member
actions speak loader than words...Rudy!!
DonP
Member
Well that's certainly comforting
"... should be left up to the states and legislatures".
So Rudy has, almost verbatim, exactly the same position on guns and gun control as Howard Dean? That really makes me all warm and fuzzy and want to run out and work for him. (sarcasm off)
"... should be left up to the states and legislatures".
So Rudy has, almost verbatim, exactly the same position on guns and gun control as Howard Dean? That really makes me all warm and fuzzy and want to run out and work for him. (sarcasm off)
rudy
I'm also from NYC and have been here for the last 30 years. I have to echo SkiLune comments and agree that Rudy would turn on gun owners and the 2A as soon as he was elected. As far as I'm concerned he is no better than Hillary. Thompson or perhaps Ron Paul are our only real hope.
I'm also from NYC and have been here for the last 30 years. I have to echo SkiLune comments and agree that Rudy would turn on gun owners and the 2A as soon as he was elected. As far as I'm concerned he is no better than Hillary. Thompson or perhaps Ron Paul are our only real hope.
Autolycus
Member
Sounds like someone is just gearing up for the election. I am tired of hypocrisy, lies, and pandering for votes on the part of politicians.
I cannot vote for him simply because I think it is shameful he calls for national standards to restrict my right to own guns but then states that it is really a states rights issue just in time for elections.
I hope nobody on here votes for him.
Its things like this that make me realize why I became disenfranchised with the GOP.
I cannot vote for him simply because I think it is shameful he calls for national standards to restrict my right to own guns but then states that it is really a states rights issue just in time for elections.
I hope nobody on here votes for him.
Its things like this that make me realize why I became disenfranchised with the GOP.
Gene Beasley
Member
xd9fan said:
Cosmoline said:
Even if unequivocally states in person that his prior position was completely off base - he's seen the light, the error of his ways... No way will I ever vote for a ticket with Guiliani on it, POTUS or VP. Fred Thompson's looking awful good. Don't foul the ticket with Guiliani or McCain.
Titan6
member
I do not think Rudy will ever convince any reasonable person that he is not an anti. I also don't think that he believes that either. However all he has to do as front runner is convince America that he is better than the Democrat running.
He can imply that he is pro 2A by joining the NRA and having his aides talk to the press because these things will not cost him any votes. What he is trying to do is create reasonable doubt that he is an anti. This will make him the lesser of two evils and therefore fit for consumption by the proles.
Once elected.... all bets are off.... and there are no promises made that have to be kept. But even if he is forced into making promises not to sign AWB II or future crazy federal gun laws it will not matter. Some kind of dramatic killing or shooting event will occur that will suddenly make it neccesary to sign to it for 'public safety' so that he will be able to reverse himself publicly.
He can imply that he is pro 2A by joining the NRA and having his aides talk to the press because these things will not cost him any votes. What he is trying to do is create reasonable doubt that he is an anti. This will make him the lesser of two evils and therefore fit for consumption by the proles.
Once elected.... all bets are off.... and there are no promises made that have to be kept. But even if he is forced into making promises not to sign AWB II or future crazy federal gun laws it will not matter. Some kind of dramatic killing or shooting event will occur that will suddenly make it neccesary to sign to it for 'public safety' so that he will be able to reverse himself publicly.
DunedinDragon
Member
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I listened to Rudy being interviewed on Sean Hannity a week or so back and one of the callers asked him the 2A question directly. He did some dancing but ultimately it came down to this.
He supports the 2A, but he also believes there has to be some special provisions for problem areas like big cities. What that tells me is that he still doesn't understand the fundamental principle that you can't legislate gun control because criminals don't follow the law.
He may have backtracked for political purposes, but he certainly didn't have a change in his understanding of guns and gun control.
He supports the 2A, but he also believes there has to be some special provisions for problem areas like big cities. What that tells me is that he still doesn't understand the fundamental principle that you can't legislate gun control because criminals don't follow the law.
He may have backtracked for political purposes, but he certainly didn't have a change in his understanding of guns and gun control.
Kaylee
Member
Actions, not words.
His history as already noted is too full of actions trying to quash American liberty.
Now, if he can actually come out and describe some kind of "road to Damascus" moment that didn't involve poll numbers, and he took solid actions to undo the damage he's done in the past .. I could maybe believe him and his new tune.
Not till.
-K
His history as already noted is too full of actions trying to quash American liberty.
Now, if he can actually come out and describe some kind of "road to Damascus" moment that didn't involve poll numbers, and he took solid actions to undo the damage he's done in the past .. I could maybe believe him and his new tune.
Not till.
-K
Autolycus
Member
Does anyone here actually believe him? I just want to know if anyone believes his campaign and aides.
Sergeant Bob
Member
Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of
every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion
about what you do."
NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani
every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion
about what you do."
NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani
ConfuseUs
Member
What his advisor said:
my rebuttal: Responsible gun owners will see him as an old enemy who is changing his story to reach the ultimate prize at their expense.
My political advice: Don't do the Kerry Dance and try to look like you're welcomed by our community. You hate us and it shows. If you need our votes to win then you should quit while you're ahead.
I think I might start to believe Rudy if he addressed the NRA, held an AK-47 up over his head, said "...From my cold, dead hands!" It'll be a cold day somewhere when that happens.
my rebuttal: Responsible gun owners will see him as an old enemy who is changing his story to reach the ultimate prize at their expense.
My political advice: Don't do the Kerry Dance and try to look like you're welcomed by our community. You hate us and it shows. If you need our votes to win then you should quit while you're ahead.
I think I might start to believe Rudy if he addressed the NRA, held an AK-47 up over his head, said "...From my cold, dead hands!" It'll be a cold day somewhere when that happens.
Mark Whiteman
Member
This nags at my brain. It is suspiciously similar to something I read in a George Orwell novel, or a speech made in Europe around 1938...I just can't put my finger on it. Could Rudolph be a plagiarist?
Hockeydude
Member
Thats the actual quote I found through google.
Mark Whiteman
Member
Now that sounds American. If it were European, it would have been "300 or 400 or 500 years".
What those in our government seem to forget first is who "loaned" them their authority in the first place. Like, "Who died and made you King, Rudy?"
What those in our government seem to forget first is who "loaned" them their authority in the first place. Like, "Who died and made you King, Rudy?"
ctdonath
Member
Long ago, Plato opined in The Republic that the best kind of ruler is a philosopher-king, a benevolent dictator. If that is the kind of government one seeks, then I highly and honestly recommend Rudy for the job.
Given a constitutional republic established to protect individuals' rights, ..... not Rudy. What passes as "conservative" in big cities looks a lot like left-of-center outside the urban jungle.
Given a constitutional republic established to protect individuals' rights, ..... not Rudy. What passes as "conservative" in big cities looks a lot like left-of-center outside the urban jungle.
Charshooter
Member
Guiliani would not be my choice, I would rather have Fred Thompson. However, if it goes to Guiliani and he is up against Hillary Clinton, I am still voting Republican! I do not like either but I fear Clinton much more; if she wins it will be a triumph for feminism and they are worse than any Guiliani.
How many of you like to sew? How many women do you know that like guns, not just hunting, but like to talk guns and are interested in guns as a hobby? With the Speaker of the House, a woman and the president, a woman, I would say that you can forget about gun ownership. What one does not understand, one does not know and very few women know about guns. I’m not down on women, just realistic about the differences between the sexes and there is a big difference!
Don’t be fooled by PC thinking, or think you are above it. Listen to this old man on this one! I am too old to be PC indoctrinated and if this post makes you edgy, that is a bit of indoctrination affecting you. Vote republican.
How many of you like to sew? How many women do you know that like guns, not just hunting, but like to talk guns and are interested in guns as a hobby? With the Speaker of the House, a woman and the president, a woman, I would say that you can forget about gun ownership. What one does not understand, one does not know and very few women know about guns. I’m not down on women, just realistic about the differences between the sexes and there is a big difference!
Don’t be fooled by PC thinking, or think you are above it. Listen to this old man on this one! I am too old to be PC indoctrinated and if this post makes you edgy, that is a bit of indoctrination affecting you. Vote republican.
Mark Whiteman
Member
This time around, I'm likely to vote for the one I can live with myself for voting for. I'll write in the one if they aren't on the ballot. I won't for for a Republican that would violate my rights as quick as the Democrat. No matter how many squeegee men he removed.
Turkey Creek
Member
Rudy's new stance can be summed up in one word- Desperation- You can't convince me that if he thought he was a shoe in, he would be using the Politician's universal magic trick of saying anything they have to to get elected, and then doing as they please- Morality of character is not in any politician's makeup!
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