Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Nagant M1895 Revolver: Underrated stopper?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by A Person, Sep 23, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. A Person

    A Person Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Somewhere
    So, I have been thinking about getting a Nagant Revolver. Mainly for Plinking/Target shooting and as a piece of history, but also (possibly) as another self defence handgun. However,I realize that the double action pull is extremely tough, and that almost modern 7.62x38mm is ONLY for plinking and target shooting, and pales power wise compared to the old surplus stuff (400-600 FPS Difference!), but I intend to use the gun almost only in single action anyways, and I have run across some cheap surplus 7.62x38mm (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76238RFMJ), so, with combat loads that are around, let's say 500 more FPS than commercial loads, how does it rate in power as a manstopper? I've heard that penetration with the surplus is actually great, and it packs alot of extra "umph" behind it, as well as extra stopping power. With surplus ammo, is it at all useful in self defence? I might even plan to use it as an extra "SHTF" handgun since ammo will be easy to stock up on. Even though I do realize that there are better modern options, remember that this isn't my main self defence handgun.
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Maybe bettter then a .22.
    But not a whole lot.

    I can think of a lot better ways to spend money on a gun & ammo.
    And that cheap ammo is going on 50 years old already.

    rc
     
  3. rule303

    rule303 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    MN
    They are an interesting piece of history, and a unique design. I own one. They should not be considered as a defense gun, unless it is the only thing available. The surplus ammo on the market is not any cheaper than just about any common caliber, is still anemic by any standard, and importation of that round is spotty at best. IMO, you would be far better served by a used .38 special revolver, or even a Hi-Point auto for defense, if that is all your budget allows.
     
  4. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    better gun FOR WAY LESS
    consider something like a Kel Tech
    or a use X (lots of major brands with YEARS of proven performance)

    than a $100 gun, with exotic ammo that is EXPENSIVE and VERY hard to find. Add the ammo in and it isn't cheap anymore (take price of gun and then add price of 2K ammo)
    better a 9mm (mak, .380 9mm)
     
  5. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,606
    Location:
    Arizona
    Historical interest at best - well known NKVD back-o-da-head gun for those cowards - and interesting design to play with but when practicality is an issue in a couple of ways you touched on in the OP... No way man. no practical reason whatsoever to own it unless you're already sitting on cases of ammo.
     

    Attached Files:

    • NKVD.jpg
      NKVD.jpg
      File size:
      67.7 KB
      Views:
      118
  6. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,570
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    I think for the price they're going for they're WELL worth buying one. People sink almost as much into a holster for some guns :).

    That said, I view them as a novelty only. The trigger pull and sights are atrocious, and the reloading method is beyond slow (they reload about like a single action - except slower as the ram to push out the empties must be unscrewed and swung out first).

    Enjoy them for what they are and have fun, but I wouldn't trust one as a working gun.

    FWIW I had a .32ACP cylinder fitted to mine as I don't think the original ammo will be available long term. .32ACP will be around forever.
     
  7. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,093
    It's effective. There are numerous mass graves containing many thousands sculls with hole in back to prove the point. This along with Walther PPK was used by NKVD execution squads.
     
  8. VancMike

    VancMike Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Vancouver USA
    Why not get one? I had one for years, until an actual Russian made me an offer I couldn't refuse (I thought of it as the Peasants' Revenge....it was Stalin's favorite handgun). I enjoyed reloading for both original brass as well as converted 32-20 (possibly the easiest cartridge conversion in all of reloading). And there is new ammo available from various sources.

    As rule303 says, it's has an interesting history. You've indicated that it's not your primary SD firearm, and that's good....it never quite seemed to fit in my hands, and both double and single-action firing is not helped by the heavy springs (which were, no doubt, designed as such to aid in reliability).

    It it very lethal? Carried primarily by non-com and commissioned officers, and in WWII by Party representatives, various texts indicate that it was responsible for several thousands....perhaps hundreds of thousands....of deaths in the two world wars.

    Alas, most of them are reported to be at close range, primarily in the back of a recalcitrant Russian soldier's head, thus providing sufficient motivation to other soldiers to advance toward the enemy.

    Enjoy the firearm....and the history!

    (Edit)....wow, look at the replies in the few minutes it took me to type my treatise. FWIW, I also had the 32 acp cylinder, which I never fitted (it takes some gunsmithing) because of the easy cartridge conversion and because there's lots of new ammo being produced. IMHO, don't waste your money on the .32 acp cylinder.
     
  9. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,003
    For what they cost, there's no reason not to pick one up as a historical curio or a fun shooter, but for self defense... There's really no justification. The caliber is anemic, and as others have remarked, the ammunition availability is spotty, and the DA trigger is so horrendous that one is really limited to single action. It should only be used for self defense if it's all you've got with you at the time. For the same price you can get any number of used guns that will be far better, and for only a little bit more, a used, but very nice S&W Model 10 or something like it that's a genuinely practical self defense pistol.
     
  10. Sergei Mosin

    Sergei Mosin Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,603
    I think it'd be interesting to see some penetration testing done, preferably in ballistic gelatin. Any takers?

    Edit: found a couple of videos showing that very thing. 21 inches using Prvi Partizan, 18 inches using Fiocchi. Didn't find any using military surplus ammo. Still wouldn't use one for self-defense, but that's more to do with the horrendous DA trigger than the performance of the round (assuming those tests are valid.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  11. kfinks

    kfinks Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    I bought one because it was a pistol to go along with with other military surplus firearms. Most people spend more on junk food in a month or two than the price of the pistol. Get one just because you want it because it is not justifiable otherwise.
     
  12. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Virginia
    That's actually incorrect, the batch I got from AIM was from the mid-80s and is great ammo.

    As long as it's not you're primary SD gun, it'll work fine. I love mine. I think it's a lot of fun to shoot, there's a ton of history there, and if in a pinch I do think it do the job, especially with the surplus stuff. As others have noted though, don't buy it if you're looking for a good backup SD gun, buy it if you're interested in the history and as a fun range gun. It would work in a crisis as your last resort but really it is in many ways a novelty. That said I love mine and think it's worth every cent I've spent on it.
     
  13. A Person

    A Person Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Maybe better than a .22? That is beyond bashing the caliber. I don't buy a gun unless it has SOME use or practical purpose besides fun. I would like to buy a gun only for plinking but I can't afford that. Come on. Could someone give me a reasonable answer? Any ballistic reports on the surplus ammo? Any reports or stories of the rounds wounds or it's effectiveness in combat? ANYTHHING?
     
  14. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Virginia
    It's definitely better than a .22lr. It's not particularly potent though. As others have noted, less than a .38 special. Probably right around .32 H&R IIRC. Will it stop a threat? Sure, but like with most smaller/less powerful calibers, shot placement will be key and the 1895 Nagant isn't known for being super accurate (you start to get the hang of it though with practice). There are certainly any more revolvers out there much better suited for SD.

    The ammo, even the surplus stuff, is relatively expensive. You could stockpile more of a different caliber for cheaper. The surplus ammo is also unreliably available (sometimes you can find it, sometimes you can't) and is drying up.

    Positives:
    Pistol is cheap
    History (you're guaranteed to get one from before 1945)
    Reliable
    Fun

    Negatives:
    Ammo is relatively expensive
    Surplus ammo supply is hit or miss
    Marginal SD round (will work, especially at close range, but not a show stopper)
    Antiquated design (even when new, the Nagant revolver was rather behind the times...slow reload, etc)
    Very bad D/A

    I wouldn't sell mine and if given the option to do over, I'd buy it again but it certainly wouldn't be my first or second choice in a bad situation. If one of the prime purposes of this pistol is SD then you might want to reconsider (it can do it but I wouldn't want to be in the spot where it's my only option). If you're set on a revolver, you can find used .38 special revolvers quite easily. If you want something surplus, then I'd recommend at looking at some of the autoloaders. I particularly like my M57 Yugo Tokarev...cheap (about $200) and fires a very potent round (which can also still be found quite cheaply from many more sources than 7.72x38r).
     
  15. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,914
    Location:
    Lexington, SC
    I sell the Nagant revolvers .. and if you came to me looking for an SD gun they are probably the LAST thing I would point you to.
    Fun to play with, but "quirky", and have a gawd awefull trigger pull.

    But, if all you have, better than a pointy stick.
     
  16. Stainz

    Stainz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,117
    Location:
    Pinson, AL
    Underated door stopper. Still cool revolver, however. Great trigger finger excerciser (Tweak the trigger and you can get down close to 20 lb!). Go with PRVI Partizan ("Hot Shot") ammo for the 1895 Nagant - not .2s - they'll bulge & split. Gunboards.com has a dedicated sub-forum - lots of info - including my old posts.

    Stainz
     
  17. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,093
    Those are worse then Pistolet TT30 and TT33 which is actually pretty bad. I do not think those are underrated at all. I would not spend $50 on one if it came in cardboard box with papers in Russian.
     
  18. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    14,890
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    I have so many better things to throw $150 at.
     
  19. unspellable

    unspellable Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,744
    Location:
    Iowa
    Every thing has its virtue

    The Nagant has two.

    1. Tank crews liked it. You could shoot through a pistol port without cylinder gap blast inside the tank and with out hot brass bouncing around from a shell shucker. Since you were hiding behind a thick iron hide, stopping power was less of an issue.

    2. It's a seven holer. Makes the odds better when playing Russian roulette.
     
  20. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,398
    Location:
    TN
    CraigC +1

    It is a question of why bother at all?
     
  21. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    756
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    The good part of using an 1895 for SD is that you will only need to buy one box of ammo. After the seventh shot, just make sure to throw it boomerang style at your attacker and run.
     
  22. ahil925

    ahil925 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    TX
    I got one from SOG when they were still $79. Using .32 H&R and hollow points it could easily be a "man-stopper", is more accurate then me, has 7 shots, is safe to carry fully loaded, and its built like a tank. That said, it is a pain in the ass to feed (ammo & substitutes aren't as cheap and easy to find as other cartridges), the DA pull will leave your hand sore if you shoot more then a few cylinders through it.

    A caution on surplus ammo, be sure its actual military stuff and not surplus target ammo. I've seen a few webpages and threads talking about the stuff cropping up from time to time.

    Another note, do not attempt to fit a .32 ACP conversion cylinder to one yourself unless you are very comfortable smithing revolvers. I'm out ~$70 and a conversion cylinder because of my ham-handed attempts.
     
  23. A Person

    A Person Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Okay. Guess it's decided then, I'm not getting a nagant. Is there a military suprlus handgun that fite THIS Bill?: Doesn't overpenetrate like 7.62x25, has more stopping power than 9x18 Makarov, accurate, reliable, 300 dollars at most? I've asked this question before on a thread and got no good answers, but if I post another thread it will probably get deleted.
     
  24. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,570
    Location:
    Charleston, South Carolina
    That's a tall order. Does it have to be military surplus or is police surplus ok? (I ask only b/c some people might be set on the "historical" aspect of a military gun)

    If police is ok look at a S&W Model 10:
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/654_910/products_id/411545790

    I assume since you asked about the Nagant that a revolver is ok. I own both a Nagant and a S&W Model 64 (basically just a stainless model 10 - otherwise same gun), and the S&W is WORLDS better for what you're asking.

    If you can't swing that then they also have the Taurus M82 which is a clone of the same gun. I think the S&W is worth the ~$90 premium, but again, I'd take the Taurus way before the Nagant.

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...entury+Arms--Used+TAURUS+M82+.38SPL+4"+Barrel

    If you're looking for a semi-auto it gets more difficult to meet your requirements. Costs jump much closer (or above) your limit before all your criteria are met.

    PS though: The reason some of your threads have gone missing may be your insistence on the whole "SHTF" theme. They don't like it around here (mostly because for the rational person the whole SHTF scenario is mostly just an imaginary daydream with no rational purpose. Harping on it makes us as a community look paranoid).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  25. A Person

    A Person Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I didn't mean to say just military surplus, my mind must have been absent on that reply, haha. I will definately consider the Smith and Taurus. I'm probably going to get a used Taurus and spend the rest on ammo, unless someone else has a suggestion.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page