Dave DeLaurant
Member
I'm talking about these guys:
The Swiss 7.5x23R Ordnance Revolver cartridge begat the Swedish/Norwegian/Belgian 7.5 Nagant cartridge. The 7.5 Nagant was lengthened into the uncircumcised 7.62x38R Nagant Gas Seal cartridge. The 8x27R French Ordnance Revolver cartridge was a parallel development, but is only very slightly larger in diameter at the casehead.
All four of these cartridges are similarly anemic by modern standards. The Swiss cartridge was only officially loaded with black powder, even in the Post-WWII era; I believe the 7.62 Nagant Gas Seal was smokeless from the start. The French and Belgian et al cartridges started life with black powder and later went smokeless.
My interest began back in the 1990s when I bought a pair of Soviet-era 1895 Nagants, when they were being flogged for well under one hundred bucks each.
I shot a single box of surplus gas seal ammo through one of the pair, then spent another hundred and bought .32 ACP cylinders from Century Arms, which I reamed to take .32 H&R. They shoot about equal to the original cylinders and provide a wider variety of common ammo choices: .32 ACP (a semi-rimmed cartridge), .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R. Though without the gas sealing feature, obviously.
Before anyone else says it, yes, it is possible to shoot stock .32 S&W Long in an unmodified 1895 revolver. The brass will swell in the oversized chambers and occasionally split, and ignition may be iffy due to slightly off-center primer strikes. Some shooters do this all the time, but I prefer to make my brass last and not overwork it in this way.
Almost two decades later, when I purchased my 82/29 Swiss revolver, I found a video that showed a method of making 7.5 Swiss ammo from cut-down 7.62 gas seal brass.
PPU makes and sells virgin 7.62 Nagant brass, and in recent months it has actually been easier to find than .32 H&R brass. I bought two bags from Grafs, shortened the cases to 23mm and made some light handloads using 98 grain Lapua HBWC over 3 grains of Trail Boss. This load shot about equally well in both the Swiss and Soviet revolvers.
That got me thinking about the 1887 Swedish and 1892 French revolvers, so naturally I had to acquire examples and experiment. Through an odd coincidence at my LGS, I ended up with two Swedes.
One interesting characteristic of the Swedish, Russian and Swiss revolver chambers is that they are all smooth, without the typical step at the casemouth. The Swiss and Swedish cartridges were originally loaded with outside lubricated or heeled bullets, and the gas seal case is actually longer than the chamber. Of the four, only the 1892 French revolver's chambers feature a step. The French cartridge case is 27mm long, and I found that a 25mm case would easily chamber in all four revolvers. I ordered more PPU brass from Grafs and shortened this batch to 25mm for comparison. The longer brass seems to shoot better in the Soviet revolvers and equally well in the Swiss and Swedes, so I'm going with it moving forward. Here's the case dimensions I settled on for compatibility with all four revolvers:
The 1892 French chambers were slightly larger at the base. By a happy coincidence, Fiocchi-branded 7.62 Gas Seal brass is also slightly larger than PPUs. Fiocchi brass would still chamber in all four revolvers, but I had to modify my Lee shell holder with a Dremel to get it to fit easily. Even with Fiocchi I see some brass bulging in the 1892, but extraction and resizing is still easy.
The French revolver's bore is also larger than the other three, and this is where the soft Lapua HBWC bullets shine. I haven't produced particularly good groups with my 1892 as yet, but the perfectly round holes in the target indicate that the bullets aren't yawing. It may be possible to improve my groups by varying the velocity -- or I may just learn to live with it. I need either a Ransom Rest or a better shooter to help at this stage.
Here's some footage from the range:
BTW, one exceptional service revolver in the 7.5/8mm class is the 8-shot Austrian Rast & Gasser. I don't own one yet, but I bought a cylinder off eBay to check the chamber dimensions. 7.62 Nagant brass is too big to chamber, but .32 H&R brass fits perfectly. A light load with HBWCs should prove interesting once I finally snag a shootable example of my own.
The Swiss 7.5x23R Ordnance Revolver cartridge begat the Swedish/Norwegian/Belgian 7.5 Nagant cartridge. The 7.5 Nagant was lengthened into the uncircumcised 7.62x38R Nagant Gas Seal cartridge. The 8x27R French Ordnance Revolver cartridge was a parallel development, but is only very slightly larger in diameter at the casehead.
All four of these cartridges are similarly anemic by modern standards. The Swiss cartridge was only officially loaded with black powder, even in the Post-WWII era; I believe the 7.62 Nagant Gas Seal was smokeless from the start. The French and Belgian et al cartridges started life with black powder and later went smokeless.
My interest began back in the 1990s when I bought a pair of Soviet-era 1895 Nagants, when they were being flogged for well under one hundred bucks each.
I shot a single box of surplus gas seal ammo through one of the pair, then spent another hundred and bought .32 ACP cylinders from Century Arms, which I reamed to take .32 H&R. They shoot about equal to the original cylinders and provide a wider variety of common ammo choices: .32 ACP (a semi-rimmed cartridge), .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R. Though without the gas sealing feature, obviously.
Before anyone else says it, yes, it is possible to shoot stock .32 S&W Long in an unmodified 1895 revolver. The brass will swell in the oversized chambers and occasionally split, and ignition may be iffy due to slightly off-center primer strikes. Some shooters do this all the time, but I prefer to make my brass last and not overwork it in this way.
Almost two decades later, when I purchased my 82/29 Swiss revolver, I found a video that showed a method of making 7.5 Swiss ammo from cut-down 7.62 gas seal brass.
PPU makes and sells virgin 7.62 Nagant brass, and in recent months it has actually been easier to find than .32 H&R brass. I bought two bags from Grafs, shortened the cases to 23mm and made some light handloads using 98 grain Lapua HBWC over 3 grains of Trail Boss. This load shot about equally well in both the Swiss and Soviet revolvers.
That got me thinking about the 1887 Swedish and 1892 French revolvers, so naturally I had to acquire examples and experiment. Through an odd coincidence at my LGS, I ended up with two Swedes.
One interesting characteristic of the Swedish, Russian and Swiss revolver chambers is that they are all smooth, without the typical step at the casemouth. The Swiss and Swedish cartridges were originally loaded with outside lubricated or heeled bullets, and the gas seal case is actually longer than the chamber. Of the four, only the 1892 French revolver's chambers feature a step. The French cartridge case is 27mm long, and I found that a 25mm case would easily chamber in all four revolvers. I ordered more PPU brass from Grafs and shortened this batch to 25mm for comparison. The longer brass seems to shoot better in the Soviet revolvers and equally well in the Swiss and Swedes, so I'm going with it moving forward. Here's the case dimensions I settled on for compatibility with all four revolvers:
The 1892 French chambers were slightly larger at the base. By a happy coincidence, Fiocchi-branded 7.62 Gas Seal brass is also slightly larger than PPUs. Fiocchi brass would still chamber in all four revolvers, but I had to modify my Lee shell holder with a Dremel to get it to fit easily. Even with Fiocchi I see some brass bulging in the 1892, but extraction and resizing is still easy.
The French revolver's bore is also larger than the other three, and this is where the soft Lapua HBWC bullets shine. I haven't produced particularly good groups with my 1892 as yet, but the perfectly round holes in the target indicate that the bullets aren't yawing. It may be possible to improve my groups by varying the velocity -- or I may just learn to live with it. I need either a Ransom Rest or a better shooter to help at this stage.
Here's some footage from the range:
BTW, one exceptional service revolver in the 7.5/8mm class is the 8-shot Austrian Rast & Gasser. I don't own one yet, but I bought a cylinder off eBay to check the chamber dimensions. 7.62 Nagant brass is too big to chamber, but .32 H&R brass fits perfectly. A light load with HBWCs should prove interesting once I finally snag a shootable example of my own.
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