Name this automatic rifle, the county of origin, and the caliber.

[Detritus]

Wasn't JMB's first gas-operated gun a modified lever action?

not sure about that one, you're probably right.

i DO know that Bill Ruger's first Semi-auto, and the, at least external, inspiration for the "deer stalker" .44 mag and the 10/22, was a semi-auto conversion he designed and built in his late teens early 20's, from a detatchable magazine Savage 99 lever gun, back i think (not sure of date), just prior to WW2.

best way to visualize the thing would be to Think of a 10/22 built to a scale etc, such to be suitable to handle a round like 250-3000 or .300 savage.


BTW, when i saw the above pic of the Charlton, i thought it was one of those experimental, Semi-auto conversions of the SMLE from the first world war (down to the "fore and aft" pistol grips) and i somehow imagine that at least part of teh idea for the Charlton came from one of those.

 

[JoshM]

Desperate times, desperate measures.

The Charlton was designed to equip New Zealand's home defence force with a light machine gun, as all of the Army's firepower was in North Africa and later Italy.

Things were so bad, everything from deer rifles to binoculars were being pressed into military service.

The Australian government later halted the Charlton's production at Electrolux, so they could build another ugly and effective gun, the Owen SMG.

In NZ, I've seen BRENs, MG42s, and CZ LMGs but I'm still looking for a Charlton.

 

[Shamaya]

Things were so bad, everything from deer rifles to binoculars were being pressed into military service.

And now look at New Zealand. Like the Brits, they didn't get the message. Ripe for the pickin'.

 

[ShaiVong]

Hey now that I got me an Enfield and AR-15, I'm thinking of taking over NZ next week; Anyone with me? I'll make you dukes!

 

[Mike Irwin]

Detritus,

"from a detatchable magazine Savage 99 lever gun, back i think (not sure of date), just prior to WW2."

Close, but no cigar.

Ruger did use a Savage 99 for his first semi-auto rifle, but it wasn't a detachable magazine version unless he modified it himself.

Detachable mag. Savage 99s didn't show up until sometime in the mid to late 1960s, IIRC.

 

[Detritus]

darn Just missed!! :banghead: lol

hey i WAS close.

now that i think about it, I seem to remember there was a design element of the conversion that would have stopped a removable mag from working... a rod or tube that passed through the center of the rotary magazine, if not for being WAY out of place i'd be thinking it was a portion of the op-rod....


either way a real interesting gun.

 

[Futo Inu]

"Great Googolymoogoly, what an ugly weapon"

Yikes. Yeah, it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Shamaya and Shaivong, those are some purty islands. Tell you what - I'll come with ya and help you execute the coup - then I'll let you be king (symbolic) and dictator, respectively, as long as I can some ski there in the (northern hemisphere's) winter. Year-round skiin' - yes!

 

[Sleuth]

Not nearly as elegant a conversion as they have in the NZ Army museum in Wyooru (sp). It a great (if cramped) display of their history.

Their conversion had a simple plate with a cam to operate the cut off bolt handle, exposed gas tube (pickup near the muzzle) and return spring, used the original stock. Looked like it would work.

After the US Marines arrived, the risk subsided. In many places to this day a member of the USMC cannot buy a beer - they are free!

 

[AZ Jeff]

JM Browning's first attempts at harness propellant gas for cycling the action involved a modified lever action.

It employed a "flapper" in front of the muzzle (through which a small hole was bored to allow the bullet to pass). The gasses that escaped the muzzle behind the bullet pushe the flapper down/away from the muzzle. Through a linkage, this actuated the finger lever of the action to cycle the breech mechanism.

Pictures of this system appear in "Small Arms of the World", among other resources.

 

[Detritus]

Never got my hands on a copy of "Small Arms of the World" so i don't rightly know....

is that (the first JMB auto) the design that lead directly to the "colt-browning" Machine-gun aka "Potato digger"???

i know it had a flapper like piece under the forward portion of the barrel, that was forced downward and to the rear (hinged at rear) each time a round was fired. but from my understanding, for all intents and purposes that "flapper" WAS the "action lever" and the barrel protruded 4 or 5 inches beyound the end of that unit.

not sure but from what i've seen of them it LOOKS like there would be some form of gas port, that directs gas down onto the end of that moving lever driving it way from the barrel (kinda like the flaps that are used to keep rainwater etc out of a vertical exhaust pipe), and the leverage of a force being exerted on the end of the bar provides mechanical advantage to cycle the action.

then again as i've said i'vbe never taken a REAL good look at one only seen a few in various films being fired, just my impressions.

 

[AZ Jeff]

The "Potato Digger" (aka the model 1895) used a "flapper" that was actuated by gas exiting a gas port on the underside of the barrel.

Browning's first autoloader was merely an experimental modification of an existing lever action rifle, and the flapper was literally over the end of the muzzle. Thus, the Potato Digger was a bit more sophisticated than this crude experimental thing.

However, in comparing the Model 1895 to this modified lever gun, one can see how the Potato Digger came to evolve.......