Nation of Victims

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This is what I can't for the life of me understand; when did we as Americans become so conditioned as to follow laws that are not only immoral but next to impossible to enforce?
Concealed means concealed. Nobody is gonna see my gun unless there's some shootin' that likely needs to be done. In that case, my life and those lives I'm obligated to protect are more important to me than a legal problem.
I've been in jail before and it sucks. I've never been in a coffin before but I suspect that it rates a lot higher on the suckage scale than being in jail.
I'll be packin' where ever I can get away with it.

We are Americans, not robots to be programed at the flick of a switch or the signing of a law.
This might get me banned, but it had to be said.

Biker
 
Obxned post is an excellent example of how the western world views the concept of self defence. To defend oneself seems to have become reprehensible. How is it that our society degraded to such a deplorable state ...
 
a bully was picking on my 9 yr old son and he ran to tell a teacher. I told him next time fight back. his reply shocked me, the school teaches them to not strike back am I that old? when I was a kid(can't remember) we were taught by our fathers to fight for ourselves OR a lady in distress. what happened to us?
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I was in a similar situation as your son at that age, except I fought back. I was sent to the principals office and scolded, then they called my parents down to the school. I left the room and my mom gave the principal hell, apparently he told my mom that they don't know how to raise a child. My parents raised me to defend myself and I did, but that suspension was only temporary. :D

-Ryan
 
Thank you, TexasRifleMan. Well said.

There is a VERY liberal woman where I work. We were discussing this today, and she said, "If even one person there had had a gun, he could have just blown the shooter away and saved a lot of lives."

The tide may be turning.
 
Not Everybody

Not everybody rolled over and gave up.

As mentioned in post #22, this man saved dozens of lives.

Who knows, if he'd been armed it might have stopped right there.
 
As more survivors are interviewed, I am seeing a little more "will to live" than I originally thought. Bravo to those who used their wits to escape or avoid.

And to Liviu Librescu, Godspeed to the next life and the families of those you saved thank you.
 
Let's make this abundently clear, I have heard NO interviews with people in the classrooms that said anyone was kneeling and being shot like the children in PA were. I challenge anyone to come up with an interview of someone in the classrooms that say different. It's mindless repeating of some sound-bite.

Panic, confusion, flight, paralization - certainly. Heroism as well. But no one who was in the class rooms has said anyone died on their knees.
 
There's a lot of talking out of the nether regions going on. I don't think some of you understand that life is different from the movies. If you rush, unarmed, a cold blooded gunman, you're almost certain to get shot.
 
hso said:
Let's make this abundently clear, I have heard NO interviews with people in the classrooms that said anyone was kneeling and being shot like the children in PA were. I challenge anyone to come up with an interview of someone in the classrooms that say different. It's mindless repeating of some sound-bite.

Panic, confusion, flight, paralization - certainly. Heroism as well. But no one who was in the class rooms has said anyone died on their knees.
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Thank you for reiterating this fact. I have read every piece of material I can find on this incident and I have seen absolutely no reference of an execution line or students shot while kneeling before the gunman.
 
"... if you rush, unarmed , a cold blooded gunman, you're almost certain to get shot.

yeah? No sh*t Sherlock. If the alternative is to stand around waiting to get shot when it's your turn then I vote for maximum resistance immediately. A 9mm is not a death ray and however excruciating the experience of getting shot with one might be the chance of ending the shooting spree right then and there vastly outweighs the consequences of attempting to do so. See Dune by Frank Herbert for a complete explanation of what it means to be human.
 
Excerpt from a male VT student e-mail on Michelle Malkins website:

"We heard pretty much continuous shooting for the next minute or so, and I said, "Shouldn't we barricade the door," because we were sitting ducks with no way out inside that room if he opened the door. A couple more people floated the idea that "We need to barricade the door, NOW." But I was too scared to even move, much less move the teacher's desk.

Finally one of the guys in the front of the classroom was brave enough to get up and move the desk in front of the door to prevent outside entry.
 
Here is the bottom line.

Over time, the feelings of average people take ups and downs.

Over the past 30-40 years it has become fashionable to be submissive.

That is ending now. Average people are realizing that that is suicdal.

The parents and teachers who taught that SHOULD be ashamed of themselves.
 
Cudos to Biker for being blunt and to the point!

As much as we want to be Highroad about being a victim or coward all I can say is...

quit trying to fool others and yourselves in an attempt to explain that your gun is for defense. While this is very true, it also means that you have decided that if needs be someone is going to get shot and maybe killed. Am I the only one who is actually proud to admit that I am willing to take down a scumbag for the good of the people.

Carrying means willful intent to use and the desire to at least put up a good fight before dying. If I am put in the position to fight for myself and others then I hope to win or at least be remembered with respect and honor. Remember that a coward dies a thousand deaths....
 
True enough...but the high killed to wounded ratio suggests that there wasn't much flight/fight on the scene.
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I agree. But there is a big difference (at least to me) between complete submission (as is implied with an execution line) and failure to fight/flight due to situational paralysis or a simple lack of egress route.

Again, a lot of speculation, as we do not know the details (I'm not sure I really want to know).
 
I'm watching the ABC News special on this now. Just interviewed the kids that turned their backs on their 77 year old professor and started jumping out windows.

Now I'm not sure how I'd react in a situation like that, but man if I turned my back on an elderly man and let him get murdered while I ran from the scene, I wouldn't be so quick to go on TV and talk about it.
 
Situational paralysis is something many people do not take into consideration in a case such as this. Survivors of plane crashes have often made comments about hot calmly the passengers reacted to the news they were about to crash, when what happened was most people were totally paralyzed. It is obvious the death rate probably would have been much higher except that in one classroom the students responded quickly enough to barricade the door and in another the Professor was willing to block the door with his body so the students would have a chance to go out the window. In another classroom some of those not injured or killed had the presence of mind to play dead until the killer left and then were able to block the door to keep him from coming back in.

It takes a certain type of personality and background to immediately realize something is amiss and steps must be taken when something, such as this shooting, happens. You really have to train yourself to be ready to respond to the unexpected. This is what Jeff Cooper meant by his four conditions of readiness. While it is impossible to stay at high alert constantly it is perfectly possible to train your subconcious to keep track of what is going on around you when you concious is in Condition White. Even if you keep your sub-concious in Condition Yellow that will allow you to react quicker than someone who decides the present surroundings are totally safe and therefore one can totally relax. Having spend many hours in physics, chemistry and higher math classes I can guarantee there is no way you can concentrate on the subject and, conciously, keep track of what might be happening outside the classroom.
 
The schools here are a major part of the problem. A class bully hit my son, who then pushed him away. The bully then tried to choke him, and my son broke loose. When the bully came at him a third time, my son gave him a split lip which required stitches.

The school officials agreed that this was exactly how the situation happened, but both students were suspended for 3 days.
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This is how my school used to deal with "fights". We have a new principal who recognizes the right of self-defense. Now, only the attacker is punished.
 
re: cleaning up my post ...

Cosmoline - please remove your head from your " nether regions " - this is the THR. Many young Americans face death and dismemberment on a daily basis from folks who would like to nothing better than to spread their remains over the better part of a city block. Under the circumstances it doesn't seem unreasonable to try and stop a madman from murdering you and your classmates by whatever means are at hand. Several posts on this thread have referenced acts of heroism in this situation akin to what I suggested in my previous post. If your choices are reduced to 1) do nothing and get shot, or 2) do something and get shot in the attempt, I will always choose #2. Apparently we differ in that regard. If you are interested in the reference to Frank Herbert's novel, Dune, a google search using the keywords I provided will clear things up for you. In a nutshell, the idea is that you are not truly human if you let a deadly threat to you and your kind go unchallenged.
 
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