Navy Arms 1892

[BigBore44]

Hey guys,
Just came across a Navy Arms 1892 in 45 Colt, 20” octagon barrel, this morning. Gun is used but looks brand new. Guy is asking $650. Not knowing much about them I did some research. The one I did find interesting is this gun new sells for ~$1,700 even though it’s made by Rossi. That’s a thousand dollars off of the new price. So why are they so expensive new, and is this really that good of a price? Should I jump on it?

 

[LRDGCO]

The original Navy Arms 1892s were unfinished Miroku made rifles that Val Forgett had finished by independent gunsmiths in the US. I was not aware that subsequent guns were made by Rossi. Does the one you are looking at have the tang safety or a crossbolt safety? If it's the tang safety, that's almost certainly a Miroku made rifle.

Anyway, the Rossi R92 is a well made, value for money rifle that needs some finishing work - taking the sharp edges off the loading gate, softening the hammer spring, replacing the plastic mag follower, deleting the vile crossbolt safety, etc. But they are good rifles. AFAIK, they sell in the $450 - $500 range now, so if the rifle that you are looking at is well finished, CCH receiver, and decent wood, $650 sounds very reasonable. If it is a Miroku rifle, buy it fast and retain an attorney to defend you on charges of Grand Theft.

 

[DPris]

LOOK on the barrel for point of origin.
It'll say Japan on it somewhere if Miroku, or another maker if an older Navy-import.
Denis

 

[BigBore44]

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...-10-rounds-walnut-stock-blued-048702007484.do

https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Product/Details/11168065

https://grabagun.com/gibbs-rifle-co-1892-short-45lc-20-10rd.html

LOOK on the barrel for point of origin.
It'll say Japan on it somewhere if Miroku, or another maker if an older Navy-import.
Denis

So what if it is a Rossi? Are the ones I listed Rossi also? If it’s a Rossi will it say Brazil on it?

 

[BigBore44]

LOOK on the barrel for point of origin.
It'll say Japan on it somewhere if Miroku, or another maker if an older Navy-import.
Denis

What other origins do I need to look for to determine value? What other brands? I know Navy Arms is an importer. And they imported Rossi and Winchester. But next to that, I know next to nothing about them. I’ve read several different forums today but nobody gave anything other than “They are great” and “They need finishing and aren’t worth the money”.

 

[LRDGCO]

Navy Arms is Val Forgett. He and his family have been important in the US firearms industry since the 1950s. Other than being the importer of these rifles, Navy Arms are really irrelevant to the equation. If it's a Rossi made rifle and you like it, $650 is a good price. If it's a Miroku made rifle, $650 is a remarkable price. If this is a Rossi made gun that has been finished by Forgett craftsmen, it is superior to the R92 in finish and should require no further action. https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...-model-1892-rifle-a-gentleman-s-lever-action/

On Navy Arms:

60 years, it's a long time for a gun company to be in business. Most don't make it, for many reasons. Navy Arms is no different, we have faced the typical struggles of many family-owned businesses going into our second generation of ownership.

We faced legal fights, financing issues and an ever-evolving business landscape. And, we made it... We made it thanks to the tireless efforts of Navy Arms' staff, the patience and strong sense of partnership we have with our vendors, distributors and dealers. Most of all, we made it because of you, our customer.

As I begin my 25th year in the firearms business, I still marvel at how many people tell me about the Navy Arms guns they own, many adding that the first gun they ever bought was from Navy Arms. For years, I would listen to people tell these stories to my father, and now, they tell me and I relish ever story.

What Dad started sixty years ago in his basement was just this crazy little idea he had to build high quality replicas of the classic designs of Winchester, Colt, Remington, Smith & Wesson among others. His idea created not just Navy Arms, but the replica industry itself.

In 1956 when Navy Arms started, no other gun manufacturer built the classic designs of their pasts. Now, Colt makes Colt replicas. Now, Winchester makes Winchester replicas. Now, Smith & Wesson makes Smith & Wesson replicas. Now, Remington makes Remington replicas. All, because of Navy Arms and its founder, my father, my namesake, Val J. Forgett, Jr.

THAT is what makes Val J. Forgett, Jr. "The Father of the replica firearms industry" and Navy Arms "First with the finest in quality replica firearms".

 

[DPris]

In addressing the maker-
It's only fairly recently that Navy/Forgett has sold the Miroku 92s.

Navy Arms today is only a shadow of the company it was under Val's father, and to the best of my knowledge any earlier 92s would have been Rossi variants.
I don't believe Navy did anything in country with earlier 92s beyond speccing configurations & degree of finish with the maker.

Look on the barrel, by law the country of origin MUST be there somewhere.

If Rossi/Brazil, the older Rossis were decent base quality, and with some tuning/cleanup can be good rifles.

They're not junk, just tend to be oversprung, rough inside, and they can benefit from some after-buy work.
You can get the DVD from Steve's Gunz & do that yourself.

The Rossi can be serviceable, at a lesser quality & price.
If Miroku, both quality & value are notably higher.
Denis

 

[BigBore44]

Navy Arms is Val Forgett. He and his family have been important in the US firearms industry since the 1950s. Other than being the importer of these rifles, Navy Arms are really irrelevant to the equation. If it's a Rossi made rifle and you like it, $650 is a good price. If it's a Miroku made rifle, $650 is a remarkable price. If this is a Rossi made gun that has been finished by Forgett craftsmen, it is superior to the R92 in finish and should require no further action. https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...-model-1892-rifle-a-gentleman-s-lever-action/

On Navy Arms:

In addressing the maker-
It's only fairly recently that Navy/Forgett has sold the Miroku 92s.

Navy Arms today is only a shadow of the company it was under Val's father, and to the best of my knowledge any earlier 92s would have been Rossi variants.
I don't believe Navy did anything in country with earlier 92s beyond speccing configurations & degree of finish with the maker.

Look on the barrel, by law the country of origin MUST be there somewhere.

If Rossi/Brazil, the older Rossis were decent base quality, and with some tuning/cleanup can be good rifles.

They're not junk, just tend to be oversprung, rough inside, and they can benefit from some after-buy work.
You can get the DVD from Steve's Gunz & do that yourself.

The Rossi can be serviceable, at a lesser quality & price.
If Miroku, both quality & value are notably higher.
Denis

Interesting....The reason I’m considering this rifle is from the investment side. A $1,700 rifle for $650 is a good buy. A $700 rifle for $650, not so much. So as I understand, it’s either Japan or Brazil. Japan is a great buy. Brazil it worth about what he’s asking.

 

[DPris]

Don't buy it as an investment.
If Rossi, it'll never amount to much.
If Miroku & used, you'll be able to get a little more back on selling it, but not enough to bother with AS AN INVESTMENT.

Where are you seeing that $1700 figure for a Rossi?????
Denis

 

[BigBore44]

Don't buy it as an investment.
If Rossi, it'll never amount to much.
If Miroku & used, you'll be able to get a little more back on selling it, but not enough to bother with AS AN INVESTMENT.

Where are you seeing that $1700 figure for a Rossi?????
Denis

I linked to the ones I’d found currently for sale in my first reply to you. It didn’t say anywhere that I saw if they were Rossi or Winchester. They were just listed as “Navy Arms”.

 

[DPris]

I looked at your links.
Those are current MIROKU Winchester-branded Model 92s, they are NOT Rossis.

Again- LOOK AT THE BARREL!
The maker's country of origin will be there somewhere.
Denis

 

[DPris]

BB,
Something to be aware of if you'll be looking at these 92s-
Browning currently holds the rights to the Winchester brand in firearms.
ONLY Browning can contract with ANYBODY to build a Winchester-branded firearm.

Nobody else can label a 92-pattern levergun as "Winchester" either on the gun , in catalogs, or anywhere else.

NONE of the Rossis sold under any of the importer companies' branding can legally be called or described as a "Winchester".
It CAN be labeled a "92", an "1892", and so on, but NEVER a Winchester 1892 unless it's made under license from Browning, and the only factory that does that is Miroku.

Forgett can label his CURRENT 1892 as a Winchester, because he gets those guns already branded as Winchesters from Miroku.
He could not label older Rossis carried by Navy Arms as a "Winchester", and he didn't.

If you see a new 92 pattern listed somewhere, if it says Winchester it'll be Miroku.
If it doesn't include Winchester, it'll be Rossi/Taurus.


I can find 20-inch octagonal Rossis hovering around $500.
NO ROSSI IS WORTH $1700.
Denis

 

[BigBore44]

Ok I’m talking to the gentleman through text right now. I assume he’s at work. He did send me a few pictures but I don’t think it will tell me, or you, anything. But here they are anyways.

 

[DPris]

It looks like a Rossi to me around the receiver.
Does it SAY Winchester on it?

If not, it's obviously Rossi & worth whatever you want to pay him.
It is NOT an investment.
You can put $650 into a far better investment instrument than that rifle.
Denis

 

[DPris]

Word back from a friend at Navy for many years-
All of those older "Navy" 92s were Rossi & should have NA beginning the serial numbers.

Says it's possible the founding Val could have had a couple Italian 92 prototypes made way back, but none recalled.
Denis

 

[BigBore44]

It looks like a Rossi to me around the receiver.
Does it SAY Winchester on it?

If not, it's obviously Rossi & worth whatever you want to pay him.
It is NOT an investment.
You can put $650 into a far better investment instrument than that rifle.
Denis

Yes sir. You are correct. He just informed me it’s a Brazil. Dang it. I love how even as much as I know, I know so little. Denis, thank you so much for your time. Learned a lot today. And didn’t have to spend $650 to learn it the hard way.

 

[eastbank]

seconds on it being a rossi, the finish just does not say mirkou.

 

[DPris]

You are entirely welcome.
It could be a decent performer, and they're not all that hard to clean up if you get the DVD, but I don't think I'd go $650 as a used shooter.

Definitely no investment value, though.
Denis