Near-Perfect Hunting Cartridges...

[Uncle Mike]

I don't think I played this table yet, so here goes....

22LR....Entertainment-
22-250....Just because I love it-
30-06....Anything that walks or crawls, groceries-
7.62X39....Home defense-
375H&H.... See #2

I mean, if only limited to 5....

 

[Maverick223]

even the most nuclear 45-70 loads cannot approach the 45 cal. super magnums...

They can get close to the weak loads that they used in the test...in a Marlin 1885 you can drive a 405gr. to about 2000fps, or a 500gr. to over 1800fps, and get just as much penetration (with less energy). It is clear that they used loads suitable for the weakest of actions chambered in .45-70 and that is why they achieved the result (and they still had great penetration, just low energy).

I agree with you out here in the west the 30-30 limits a person unnecessarily as far as range.

Absolutely, the .30-30 is much better suited to the thickets in the South-East.

 

[saturno_v]

in a Marlin 1885 you can drive a 405gr. to about 2000fps, or a 500gr. to over 1800fps

These are loads for the modern single shot rifles, not lever action rifles.
According to the Hodgdon reload data, a 400 gr, bullet for a modern lever action rifle can be pushed up to ~1800 fps.

 

[Maverick223]

These are loads for the modern single shot rifles, not lever action rifles.

According to most experts the Marlins are safe to about 40,000psi, and the loads I listed above are well below that...it is also chambered for the .450Marlin, which is a 45,000psi cartridge.

 

[saturno_v]

According to most experts the Marlins are safe to about 40,000psi, and the loads I listed above are well below that...it is also chambered for the .450Marlin, which is a 45,000psi cartridge.

The 450 Marlin has a published SAAMI pressure spec of 42.000 psi not 45K.

And according to the "experts" I did talk to (who really qualify as an expert anyway??) pushing a 400 gr. 45-70 bullet at 2000 fps out of a lever action is asking for trouble......feel free to try at your own risk.

However, both the super 45-70 and the 450 Marlin cannot hold a candle to a 458 Win Mag (much higher pressure, bigger case) which is capable to propel a 400 gr. pill at over 2400 fps.

And in that test about effectiveness, the 30-06 was immediately behind these monsters (including the 375 H&H and the 338 WM)

So let's say, being generous, that the 450 Marlin or the hyper 45-70 could match the 30-06 in effectiveness but not do better.

In a 30-06 nowdays you can use the Woodleigh Weldcore 240 gr, bullet which has a tremendous SD which no 45 cal bullet can even remotely match....people split in a half Water Buffalo skulls with these in Africa, where legal.

 

[ArmedBear]

jbech123: Mule deer tend to be much heavier than whitetails. I just confirmed with her. This was an unusually large doe, and weighed over 400 lbs.

But... an unusually large buck can be 500.

Mulies are much thicker than whitetails.

The first time I drove around a corner and saw a herd feeding on an abandoned melon field, I was truly shocked at how huge they looked. They're big, bulky animals -- yet they're still quick and agile.

Sometimes, there'll be a smaller deer, at 50 yards or less. But... it would be a real bummer to be out hunting, see the best-looking big buck of your life, around 400 lbs., eying you from 350 yards away, look down at your .30-30 and think, "Damn, why did I leave the .30-06 at home?!?"

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That is a very good number...are you sure is within pressure limits??

What pressure limits? The .35 Brown-Whelen is a true wild cat. There are no SAAMI standards for it.

I developed loads by starting with .35 Whelen data and going up until I got pressure signs, then backing off.

What is the barrel length of your rifle??

22 inches. It's the original .30-06 barrel reamed out and rechambered. It was slightly shortened and re-crowned.

 

[Maverick223]

So let's say, being generous, that the 450 Marlin or the hyper 45-70 could match the 30-06 in effectiveness but not do better.

Lets just agree to disagree...this is obviously going nowhere and neither cartridge is a poor choice for 90% of game.

 

[saturno_v]

The .35 Brown-Whelen is a true wild cat. There are no SAAMI standards for it.

Opps, sorry...did not pay attention to that...