Near-Perfect Hunting Cartridges...

[Vern Humphrey]

There, I agree. I have five .30-06s; an M1 Garand, an old-style Ruger model 77, a pre-64 Winchester Model 70, and two 03A3 Springfields (one Remington, and one Smith-Corona.)

I have a Hammond Game Getter in .30-06. This is a cartridge case that appears to have an off-center primer pocket. The "primer pocket" is really a .22 rimfire chamber, positioned so the firing pit hits the rim of the case. With a brown (low power) Remington nail-setting blank, it shoots an 00 buckshot to about 700 fps. They print right at the top of the thick bottom crosshair at 25 yards. They're ideal for those times when you're sitting on a deer stand and the squirrels try to carry you off.

I like Ed Harris "The Load" in my .30-06s -- that's 13.0 grains of Red Dot behind a 160 grain Lee cast bullet. With the bullet cast of wheel weights, that's pretty cheap shooting.

For deer I like a 150-grain bullet at around 2600 fps, while for mulies and elk, I go with a 180 grain Nosler Partition Jacket at around 2700 fps. A good do-anything load is a 165 grain bullet at about 2900 fps.

Jeff Cooper was right, the .30-06 is just "too good."

 

[Maverick223]

I just realized that I left off a good cartridge in the .375H&H "honorable mention" section...the 9.3x64Brenneke is a splendid cartridge for when the big Holland and Holland just won't fit in the action, and can do anything the H&H can for work in NA.

Also, while I could have left a few cartridges/categories off, as some have suggested, I felt that each one had enough merit to deserve a spot, they just seemed perfect for one region/circumstance/game and could not be ignored. I am not saying that everyone needs all of the above, just that each serve a particular instance very well and may be applicable.

 

[Uncle Mike]

As they say Mav....you can't successfully argue with 'opinion'!

 

[Maverick223]

As they say Mav....you can't successfully argue with 'opinion'!

So your saying my list of cartridge choices isn't fact?...blasphemy!

 

[wishin]

.243/6mm needs to be in there somewhere.

 

[MJR007]

I agree with Krochus on this one. More importance should be placed on the bullet than what brass it came out of. Do you really think a deer would notice the difference if it was shot at 237yards with a 243, a 25 Souper, a 260, a 7mm-08, or a 308. I own or have owned all these rifles and my wife’s recently shot out 308 will be rebarreled in a 308. We as hunters over think a lot.

 

[HoosierQ]

I voted close but no cigar or whatever that was. I would think any such list would really need to include 30-06 and/or .308 and something 7mm (pick one).

Good picks on 22lr, .223, and 30-30 though.

45-70? Maybe not so much. Good caliber to be sure but...

So a good list but not perfect.

 

[ArmedBear]

.30-30 really isn't a cartridge. It's a rifle, if you get my drift. Nobody shoots .30-30 for its intrinsic merits. Lots of people shoot a 94 or 336 for its intrinsic merits -- and it happens to chamber a .30-30. But if you're listing cartridges, I think you can ditch it.

Likewise, I really like the .45-70. In a single-shot BPC rifle, that's what I'd want. It's found a niche in the Guide Gun, too. But again, we're talking about particular rifles that are appealing, and the cartridge just comes along for the ride.

The .223 is far from perfect. It's just really, really common due to NATO adoption. If that's the criterion for "perfect", the .260 and .280 would have to go from the list. The .22-250 is THE .22 centerfire round, if it's chosen for its hunting merits.

Do you really think a deer...

That's where we're going to have differences of opinion. I can only get one deer tag per season, unless I want to grossly overpay. Our deer are a lot bigger than what some people hunt. I can also get an elk tag, a bear tag, and most likely, can draw a pronghorn tag. We have moose, bighorns and mountain goats, also, with tougher drawings, and buffalo are available, too. So, my idea of "North American game" is not "whitetail".

The terrain and game can favor some long shots. Since I don't shoot prairie dogs at the moment, I'd trade .223, .260, .280, .375 and .45-70 for just two: .257 Wby and .338 Win Mag. One for flat shooting, the other for "oomph" at range.

Now is a .338 WinMag "perfect" for a hunter whose game and terrain are a good match for a .30-30? HELL NO! It's expensive and high-recoil, and the guns that shoot it are either heavy or they kick like mules.

But would I want to hunt moose or mountain goats with a .30-30? No. It would be better than a sharpened stick, but it sure wouldn't be "perfect" by any stretch.

What is "perfect" for me? A .30-06 comes pretty close, considering ALL factors, which include price, availability, versatility, and recoil. Had the '03A3 been chambered for a 7mm bullet instead, then the .280 probably would be the choice.

What is theoretically perfect? There may be no such round for all of North America. That's why there are so many of them. If a round is commercially successful, then at least a critical mass of people found said round to be "perfect" for something or other.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

AB speaks wisely, but I must disagree strongly with this:

The .22-250 is THE .22 centerfire round, if it's chosen for its hunting merits.

Said it before and I'll say it again. For the average guy shooting a FACTORY rifle with standard factory twist rates, then .223 Rem is several heads and shoulders above the .22-250 as a LARGE game hunting round. Less speed is GOOD when talking about small frangible bullets, and an already-very-high-vel-round (with the .223), and a higher twist and heavier bullets (found with .223 rifles & factory loads) are much preferred for large game, over a slower twist and light varmint bullets (found with .22-250 rifles & factory loads).

So I would say:

The .223 Rem is THE .22 centerfire round, if it's chosen for its hunting merits. But don't choose any .22 centerfire for big game. (or rimfire for that matter).

Varminting is a different story, but that ain't really "hunting".

But I agree with all the OPs choices, except for .30-30 win perhaps. .260 rem is THE optimal goldilocks round, in my view, if you do NOT include bison, large meese, large bears, and African plains game. .280 rem is THE optimal goldilocks round in my view, if you DO include bison, large meese, large bears, and African plains game. Good calls!

 

[scchokedaddy]

perfect round?

I believe this question could never be answered. What ever you are comfortable with and have confidence in is "perfect round" for you. I have known people who would'nt shoot anything bigger than 22 250 for deer, and some that won't shoot anything smaller than 45 70. Are they wrong? They are all good shots and take care to not to just shoot but to place humane shots. Now I know there are some who think just put crosshairs on brown and pull trigger, then wonder whats wrong with their rifle. Even more unhappy hunters that I have run into think you don't need to check zero ever. That said I'll get off my soapbox. I really don't think any of yall are like this, but these situations seem to be the most common causes of chamber bashing rants. That and trying to shoot past ones ability. Most rifles will far outshoot their owners ability. Sorry for rambling on, but I have sure enjoyed all comments on this thread. By the way #1-22 rifle, # 2 243 or 6mm, #3 308,#4 7rem mag.
Just my favorites, but really love 308 marlin 1 bad round, just too new to put on list. It realy hammers from 50yds to 150 yds. looking for chance to air it out to 200yds, thats what its zeroed in for.
Sorry again Good Luck aqnd God Bles

 

[52grain]

The only .30 caliber round is the .30-30? No .30-06 or .308?

 

[Redneck with a 40]

1) 22 magnum, more power than 22 LR but not super expensive.

2) .223 Rem, a classic varmint cartridge that does good job.

3) .308 Win, excellent medium to big game hunting and target shooting cartridge.

4) 300 Win Mag, for Bears and Moose.

 

[Maverick223]

I would think any such list would really need to include 30-06 and/or .308 and something 7mm (pick one).

When did .280Rem. quit being a 7mm? I guess you mean that I need a metric round...

But I agree with all the OPs choices, except for .30-30 win perhaps.

Thanks, Doc...I think you're the first. As AB pointed out the .30-30 (and the .45-70) was chosen mainly due to the rifles it is chambered in, although I suppose all of the others were as well.

 

[ArmedBear]

When did .280Rem. quit being a 7mm?

Officially? In 1981.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_mm_Express_Remington

Varminting is a different story, but that ain't really "hunting".

Yes, but if you count out varminting, the .223 isn't really good for much at all, in the field. At least it's nowhere near "perfect". And if you do include varminting, the .22-250 eclipsed it years ago and shows no sign of backing down.

(BTW I've seen the pictures of 90 lb. deer shot with a .223 at 50 yards. That's not relevant to where I live, and it's not a "perfect" deer round simply because it's been used on deer.)

 

[Maverick223]

Officially? In 1981.

You are absolutely right...the case is the same...the bullet is different...the old one took a 7.23mm (.284cal), the new one takes a .284cal (7.23mm) projectile. Dang Europeans complicating things with that metric schmetrik mumbo jumbo.

And yes 7.23mm/.284cal is the exact same projectile used in 7mm-08/7mmRM/7mmMauser and many more...

 

[federalfarmer]

Good debate! I'll bite...

.22LR
.270 Win
.375 H&H

Done! Maybe you could twist my arm with something short action, so add a .243

 

[Maverick223]

Good debate!

Thanks, that is a abbreviated kit, but good choices nonetheless.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

AB, you apparently read only a small portion of what I wrote above.

Yes, but if you count out varminting, the .223 isn't really good for much at all, in the field.

Right, you are correct - it is not. But it's STILL better than the .22-250 out in the field, if you count out varminting. So ditto that quote as to the .22-250, but even MORE so than the .223. As I explained in some detail above.

At least it's nowhere near "perfect".

Right. The .223 is a pretty poor choice for large game, and the .22-250 is a few measures even worse (for the vast majority of people), as I explained in some detail.

And if you do include varminting, the .22-250 eclipsed it years ago and shows no sign of backing down.

That much is true, yes.

None of this changes the FACT that .223 Rem is clearly superior choice for deer than the .22-250, among two poor choices.

 

[Uncle Mike]

I don't know...but if I'm poppin' pasture poodles I really want a 22-250...never saw much use or sense in hunting large game such as deer with a high speed 22 caliber bullet!

Some have done it, and I have done it, but IMHO I think it is ill to do so!

If you think you are going to drive that 22 projectile into the vital areas of a deer sized animal, with any consistency and reliability....you might want to play the lottery more often...just my opinion!

I would more so favor a explosive projectile and neck shots with such minuscule bullets!
I mean with that tiny tim I would want to blow chunks...the neck is about as thick as a well rounded ground hog, is it not?

I'll agree with you Tad, neither the 223 or 22-250 is a good choice for deer.

 

[AStone]

30-30 is, IMO, and obsolete round.

I'm laughing over here.

 

[scythefwd]

I'll bite...

.22lr / mag - your choice.
.243 - varmit/midsized game
.300 wm - larger deer / dangerous game (if reloading... it can do everything the .30-06 can do)
12 GA shotgun - for those who can't use rifles to hunt


For those that say people only choose the .30-30 because of the firearms that shoot it... I'll have to disagree. I only own 1 .30-30 right now, but I plan on correcting that.... haven't decided on what flavor of gun yet though. I am thinking single shot or another bolt action.

 

[blackops]

Replace the 260 with the 270. Replace the 280 with the 300winmag. Just get the 30-30 out of there no matter what, I don't even what to look at that cartridge!!!!

 

[GunTech]

If you think you are going to drive that 22 projectile into the vital areas of a deer sized animal, with any consistency and reliability....you might want to play the lottery more often...just my opinion!

I think that modern bullets have really changed the game for the 223. We kill a lot of white tail here with that cartridge. You just have to understand the limitations - shorter ranges and careful shots. Performance of rounds like the TSX are a game changer for the 223, and the cartridge can be put into light, easy to handle and accurate rifles.

Bear in mind that the 22LR has accounted for a lot of deer, and the person behind the trigger is more important than just about any other factor.

 

[GunTech]

.30-30 really isn't a cartridge. It's a rifle, if you get my drift. Nobody shoots .30-30 for its intrinsic merits. Lots of people shoot a 94 or 336 for its intrinsic merits -- and it happens to chamber a .30-30. But if you're listing cartridges, I think you can ditch it.

Likewise, I really like the .45-70. In a single-shot BPC rifle, that's what I'd want. It's found a niche in the Guide Gun, too. But again, we're talking about particular rifles that are appealing, and the cartridge just comes along for the ride.

Exactly. The cartridges are large for their performance, and hampered by the requirement that they be safe in tubular magazines. They are also limited by the requirement that they be safe to fire in older guns. 30-30 has a SAAMI max of 42,000 psi, necessitating a large case, while cartridges like 308 are in the 60,000+ psi range. 45-70 is down in the high 20s.

 

[ArmedBear]

Tad and GunTech: whatever the .223's outside potential may be, given the right bullets, distances, deer size and weight, etc., it's not a "near-perfect hunting cartridge", which is what the list is supposed to be.

That's all I was saying about it: the .223 is capable of some things, but I can't think of any sort of hunting that it's nearly-perfect at, other than, perhaps, eliminating groundhogs from a golf course.

The reason I bought my first .223/5.56 rifle was that, at the time, I could buy military-issue Federal ammo for $2.99 per box of 20. This was in the earlier part of the current decade. Today, I wouldn't have ever bought the thing in the first place.

(Yeah, I'd still have ARs, but I'm not referring to ARs in this post.)