Neck resizing die vs full length case sizing die

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CptnAwesome

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Hey folks! As new as new can be to reloading. Getting all my setup together as of right now and as soon as I get rolling my first project of gonna be for my 270 win. Came to the conclusion that I'll run tests using lee FDC to see if my gun like it. Something I do need clarified,,, now I know all about the full a length case sizer and was sold on that. Until,,,, I started reading about the neck resizing die. It says case life is longer and accuracy improved,,, BUT!!!,,, you can only use cases fired from YOUR rifle (which makes sense)
Anybody use the neck sizer instead of full length case
Any info, pros and cons would be greatly appreciated
 
I do neck size for .303 british because I get a few more reloads out of my brass. I can neck size for .223 and it did make a slight difference in accuracy. As your just starting out I'd recommend FL sizing to start. Become proficient and develope you most accurate load first. Then if you like try neck sizing to see if it makes a difference.
 
Hey folks! As new as new can be to reloading. Getting all my setup together as of right now and as soon as I get rolling my first project of gonna be for my 270 win. Came to the conclusion that I'll run tests using lee FDC to see if my gun like it. Something I do need clarified,,, now I know all about the full a length case sizer and was sold on that. Until,,,, I started reading about the neck resizing die. It says case life is longer and accuracy improved,,, BUT!!!,,, you can only use cases fired from YOUR rifle (which makes sense)
Anybody use the neck sizer instead of full length case
Any info, pros and cons would be greatly appreciated
I started off reloading .270 many years ago and have never found a need to crimp any .270 ammo. Unless you are shooting a .270 semi-auto or tube fed rifle there should really be no reason to add a crimp to your .270 reloads. I use both a neck and full length sizing dies for loading for the .270. If I am using brass that was fired in a rifle other than the one I am loading for I use the Full Length die. If I am loading fire formed brass (brass from rounds fired in the gun I am loading for) I will neck size the brass until it starts to get difficult to feed (which sometimes never happens). If the brass starts to be somewhat difficult to feed then I will run it through the Full Length die adjusted just enough to resize the neck down to where it meets the shoulder. If the brass is still tight then I'll bump the shoulder back a tad. Hope this helps.
 
Neck sizing dies

neck resizing die
3 kinds. Standard, Lee Collet and Bushing. The standard will not give longer case life as the expander is used, and necks seem to fail first. The other 2 dont use an expander and may give longer case life (necks) .
 
At some point you will need to full length resize your brass. After a few loadings, the brass will be too tight for your bolt. A carefully set up FL die will give excellent accuracy and longevity. I would never recommend only a neck die to a new loader. Learn the process, and take careful measurements. You do not need to crimp the cases either way, but you can. You will have to experiment to see what your rifle likes, crimp or not, what powder, bullet and primer. Then there will be bullet seating. Please start with new brass, same headstamp, size it to fit your chamber, trim to length. Get a couple of good manuals and begin your journey. Good luck.
 
If you choose to use a neck die, then you'll still have to intermittently have to use a FL die. I've used neck die's off and on over the years, and usually by the 2nd or 3rd neck sizing, I have to bump the shoulders, other wise the brass will not chamber, or if it does it requires excessive force, which causes galling of the bolt face.

Then there is the question of whether necking enhances accuracy. I've done a fair amount of testing, and with various cartridges. In my experience, the amount of accuracy enhancement was either undetectable, or so minimal, that I couldn't make a conclusive determination. In some tests I actually consistently lost some accuracy. This is probably due to the fact that production chambers are often not true, they may be slightly out of round, egg shape as it were, or not perfectly square to the barrel. So unless you index the brass so it is in the identical clock position as when fired from that chamber, the bullet will not enter the barrel consistently even.

Then we have case life, which is yet another very debatable matter. IME and opinion, when a FL die is properly adjusted, which means making absolutely sure the shoulders are not getting bumped more than what's necessary, case life can be just as long as with a neck die. And in this regard, there can be a down side to necking.

Another something else to consider, and that I've personally experienced with belted cartridges when neck sizing, is that the area between the belt where the FL die reaches, is prone to, and can get pushed out. Once this happens, there is almost nothing you can do about it, and the brass becomes useless. I know of at least one company, Innovative Technologies, or IT that claim they're collet die will size that portion of the brass, thus extending the life of belted brass significantly.

Using properly adjusted plain old RCBS FL dies, I have little trouble getting 12-15 loads off of bottle neck brass. Some rifles I have will go even longer, just depends on the chamber, loose, tight, square are all factors that effect case life. I have a particular production rifle, a Rem 700 chambered in 7mm RM that gives me no less than 15 loads with every day factory brass, Win., RP, even Federal. Other 7 mags, including other 700's will only give me 10 or 12 loads, it just depends on the chamber.

My recommendation is to buy a decent FL die, such as RCBS, and then learn how to adjust it properly. Then focus your attention on good load development technique, component quality, and preparation. Annealing will also help to prolong case life by minimizing case neck splits.
 
I buy once fired 30-06 brass (for both 30-06 and to resize to 25-06) and 233. First sizing gets full length then neck sized twice with a Lee collet then full length and repeat.
 
Buy a FL die set and learn how to use it.

Scratch the Lee FCD unless you want four pinch crimp marks on every case mouth that will soon become 8 the second time you load them, then 12, then 16, and cause case neck splits.

Crimping is never necessary, or desirable on bottle-neck bolt-action rifle calibers, unless the caliber starts with an elephant caliber number beginning with 4 something.

Then it is necessary to prevent bullet set-back in the magazine due to the tremendous recoil.

You can neck-size with FL dies if you back them out just a little bit.

But you simply can't FL size when it ultimately will become necessary to chamber them with a neck sizing die.

I don't even own one, after reloading for over 50 years.

Accuracy?
My varmint rifles shoot well under 1 MOA, and that's plenty accurate enough to hit anything that walks, crawls, hops, or runs across the Kansas plains as far as I can see them.

rc
 
It's best to understand the process and think about the purpose of each die. When you have factory ammunition, it is made to SAAMI specifications. Barrel chambers are a bit "looser" for the sole reason that one brand of factory ammunition will fit in any chamber and fire. When you chamber a round and fire, the case neck obturates and creates a gas seal in your chamber, the gasses produced by the burning powder will propel the bullet down the barrel. The end result is that the case shoulders and neck will have been "formed" to your chamber. If you want to re-use the brass then you must re-size the neck portion of the case for it to correctly grip (and maintain tension) on the bullet when you seat it. You can use a neck size die for this operation. This will produce ammunition that can only be fired in the rifle in which the brass was fire formed.

The full length die (when set up according to the instructions) will size the brass back to SAAMI specifications. This will push back shoulders and resize the neck, and is known as a full-length resize. This will also cause the case length to increase so you may need to trim your brass to remain within specification. This brass can then be fired in any rifle of that calibre.

I only shoot bolt action rifles and 95% of the time I neck size. The only time I full length size is when I cannot close the bolt with "finger force." For what it's worth, a load that shoots well in a full-length sized case may not always shoot well in a neck sized case, which is due to the difference in internal volume, and therefore pressure of the gas produced from the burning powder.

I understand this is a large wall of text but this should be all the information you need.
 
One of the best things about a good old fashioned bolt action rifle is the fire-formed cases that can be neck-sized over and over. That's all I've ever used since turning in my M16 and I've never been sorry. The only improvement on the typical production bolt action rifle IMHO would be an undersize neck, which will dramatically reduce work-hardening. I'm not too familiar with autoloaders but surely cases can be customized to dome degree if you're sticking with one chamber. Good luck to you.
 
"...Neck resizing die vs full length case sizing die..." Depends on the rifle you're loading for. You can neck size for bolt actions and single shots, only. Every other action requires FL resizing, every time. In any case, sooner or later, you'll have to FL size the neck sized cases anyway.
The FL die can be set up to neck size only, but it takes a lot of trial and error fiddling to get right.
A crimp is only required in heavy recoiling cartridges and those used in a lever action. And as little crimping as possible.
 
A FL die cannot be set up to neck size only. The die body will touch the case body and do some sizing. Even if that is minimal, it is not neck sizing. When the case body gets moved in the shoulder moves forward until it is pushed back by the die. A FL die cannot neck size only. It can partial FL size, with 90% of the work on the neck, but can not neck size only.
 
Wow. Thanx for the feedback everyone! I learned a lot from this one thread alone. Think I'll just start out with the full length sizer and no crimp and grow from there.
 
<Mentions Small Base sizing and sits back with a box of popcorn> ....;)

If your .270 is a bolt, you won't need Small Base, but I heartily recommend it if you have a Remington 740/742/7400/Model4/750 or 760/7600 or a BAR.
 
In more than 30 yrs. of reloading, I've never once found a need for a SB die. Even though I don't load a lot of .223, I've loaded enough that if it was necessary, I would have had some indication.

My son just built a custom AR recently, and even that chamber is just fine with a standard FL die. I know some chambers are pretty tight, and some may need a SB die, but I've yet to come across one yet.

GS
 
A FL die cannot be set up to neck size only. The die body will touch the case body and do some sizing. Even if that is minimal, it is not neck sizing. When the case body gets moved in the shoulder moves forward until it is pushed back by the die. A FL die cannot neck size only. It can partial FL size, with 90% of the work on the neck, but can not neck size only.

The NRA teaches how to neck size only with a full length sizing die in the reloading classes they conduct. If you don’t push the shoulder back you are in affect neck sizing only.
 
I would skip the neck die and buy a full length set. My experience shows very little if any improvement in accuracy or case life in a factory rifle. If you really want to try neck sizing, Redding offers die sets that include both fl and neck dies. I find that what few neck dies that I own don't get used, except for the bushing dies that I use to load my rifles with tight neck chambers.
 
The NRA teaches how to neck size only with a full length sizing die in the reloading classes they conduct. If you don’t push the shoulder back you are in affect neck sizing only.
Then I simply disagree with that interpretation of neck sizing. Neck sizing only touches the neck. That way touches the body and thus is not moving only the neck. :)
 
I have neck sizing dies, it is almost impossible for the neck sizing die to be adjusted down far enough to contact the shoulder/neck juncture. That is not true with the full length sizing die. Then it depends on the case body diameter. Sizing the case body moves the shoulder forward before the shoulder sizing part of the die contacts the shoulder of the case.

I have necked sized cases with a full length sizing die, to prevent the die from contacting the die body I have had to adjust the die off the shell holder. There is no rule to follow because of case body diameter. I have backed the full length sizing die off the shell holder .100” when determining contact with the die and case body. If the die does not contact the die body I lower the die.

Then there are chamber gages that match chambers, I have a few cases that fit the chamber gage after firing with a slight amount of thumb pressure. The indications are the case body is close in diameter to the full length sizing die. Meaning I could use a full length sizing die with a large die body for the other cases.

F. Guffey
 
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