Trouble w/ FL Resizing Die

[falldowngoboom]

I bought a used RCBS FL resizing die in .30-06 and it seems like it's trying to resize the neck too much. Is there something obvious I'm missing here?

I also have a Hornady neck sizer, so I neck sized a case then tried to run it through the RCBS FL die. By the looks of the case the RCBS die was trying to shrink the neck down even further than the neck sizer did. I could only get the press to go halfway down the neck of the case before it was nearly impossible to cam any further. In fact, I nearly got the case stuck. I even tried removing the decaping rod just in case it was getting in the way due to misalignment or something. I used lube on the case body only, then tried to lube the whole case with the same result.

Any advice?

 

[dmazur]

I'm far from an expert, but I "worked through" bottleneck cartridge issues and am now creating consistent & reliable rounds in .243 and .30-06.

One of the things I fought was improper case lube for full-length resizing, and the need for some lube for neck resizing, so the first question I have is, "What are you doing about lube?"

In fact, here's a thread about this -

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469313

 

[falldowngoboom]

I found I didn't need lube when neck sizing, though using some did help make it a bit smoother. FL-resizing is where I'm having a problem. I'm using Lyman "Qwik Spray" case lube.

The resistance really is so great that I can't imagine lube making enough of a difference in this situation, but of course I'm open to ideas. I'm about 1/2-3/4" shy of getting the shellholder to butt up against the resizing die.

 

[dmazur]

As I'm sure you know, the expander ball is further down in the die than the neck sizing area. This is so the die doesn't fight the expander when it is sizing the neck "down". The expander does its job on the way back out.

In a typical FL die, the decapping pin sticks out around 0.100" or so from the bottom of the die. If your die is adjusted so that this pin isn't prominent, the die and expander ball may be fighting.

I did have trouble with lube. I tried One-Shot, but it was probably smarter than I was because I got a couple of stuck cases and had to use a stuck case removal tool. I've read (later) that I probably wasn't using enough.

At any rate, I'm using RCBS water-soluable lube on the old-fashioned pad and resizing is much, much easier. As the other thread about inside-neck lube discussed, I roll a brush across the lube pad once in a while (like maybe every 10 cases) and use this neck brush on every case before resizing.

I'm using a Hornady die for .30-06, and this pattern doesn't have the carbide ball like some others. It has a really long elliptical taper, which seems to reduce neck stretch by reducing the forces required to use it. (?) However, it won't run right with absolutely dry necks, IMO.

As I now understand things (only slightly better than a couple of years ago), it generally doesn't take extreme effort to do FL resizing. Not the same magnitude of force required for reforming brass, at least. So, if you are getting that kind of resistance to motion, it might be lack of lube...

 

[falldowngoboom]

So, if you are getting that kind of resistance to motion, it might be lack of lube...

Is it possible that the lube I'm using is just bad? Anyone else used the Lyman stuff?

I've tried varying amounts of lube, from just a tad to drenching the case, which I know you're not supposed to do. I've put lube well inside the case neck as well as sprayed the expander ball. I still can't keep it from binding up with 1/2" of the case head sticking out of the die. I've also adjusted the decapping rod to several lengths including taking the thing out completely. The case always stops at the same place. I've tried several cases.

 

[243winxb]

dmazur is giving you great information. I have read on THR that some spray lubes need to dry before sizing. Have never used a spray. I use the RCBS lube on a pad, with nylon brush to lube the inside of the neck with some lube.

it's trying to resize the neck to much.

This is normal, the expander button opens the neck to the correct inside diameter after the neck is sized. The neck can be sized down .010" or more than needed. Custom dies can be had from a few makers. They remover metal from the neck area of the die so as not to overwork the brass.

 

[Ol` Joe]

The 06 case is tapered so much that the die has to be almost on the shellholder before it is sizing the body or any other part of the case. I suspect if you are useing spray lube, you havn`t let it dry prior to sizing, or the expander ball is too low in the die and is bottoming out before the die can work the whole case.
I never lube the outer case neck even when neck sizing, but do lube evey couple cases in the mouth to prevent the expander from stretching the shoulder as it exits the case.

 

[243winxb]

If the FLRS die has a vent hole, make sure its open. Look for it in the threads of the die. You dont want to be compressing the air.

 

[falldowngoboom]

Thanks for all the tips guys (gals?), but unfortunately I haven't been able to get it fixed. I've tried varying amounts of lube as well as letting it dry.

I even cleaned out the inside of the die with a brass brush and hoppes. I did clear the vent hole with a paper clip, so that wasn't it.

I decided to send it in to RCBS. I pay shipping plus $5 for return shipping, cost me $8 total.

 

[Beelzy]

You should Mic your brass to make sure the gun that fired them doesn't have a Fat
chamber. Getting a new die only to find out it was bad brass would be a drag.

 

[rcmodel]

It would have to be Really Fat to expand 30-06 cases you couldn't resize normally.

For instance, you can make 25-06 and 22-250 cases out of 30-06 brass with just normal effort.

This has to be a bad die, or a little dinky Lee Reloader press.

rc

 

[qajaq59]

Lube can make all the difference when sizing. I use a "little" Break Free on a pad and don't have any problems. I've never tried the sprays.

 

[Ol` Joe]

I decided to send it in to RCBS. I pay shipping plus $5 for return shipping, cost me $8 total.

Be sure to let us know the out come,

 

[GP100man]

i only use rcbs lube , theres cleaner , faster & some easier to clean off but i lube em put em in the shell holder & one of my girls pulls the handle,oh yeah i scrape a bit off my fingers to lube the inside neck.

after sizing i wipe it with cotton towel & put it in old tumble media for 30min to wipe the rest off.

 

[243winxb]

The history shows a few things. Using range brass, neck sizing only,maximum loads of IMR4350-59.5gr. To hot a load IMO. The web area may be expanded. Spray lube is not a good choice. It will take a lot of force to FLRS these cases.

 

[falldowngoboom]

Is normal lube more slick somehow? Can you recommend a good one?

I'm not shooting that IMR 4350 load anymore because of accuracy issues, but Hornady quoted me 59.9g as max under their 150g FMJ bullet. A lot of my loads shot were 58g, though some were higher.

As I said though, I did try several cases to be sure, including some that were (supposedly) once fired range brass I bought online but never loaded up.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, commercial case lube has been developed to provide optimum lube property's for sizing brass cases.

The #1 property it must have is a very high film strength to keep it from getting pushed off the case as it enters the die.

Many if not most common oils & greases do not have much film strength.
I am amazed CLP even works at all.

The best thing I have personally used is Anhydrous Lanolin from the drug store.

It makes any case forming easy & resizing effortless.
It also makes your hands soft like a baby, and totally prevents skin cracking in winter.

The down side is, it makes you smell like a wet sheep.

rc

 

[falldowngoboom]

Anhydrous Lanolin is what they recommend in those make your own lube recipes right?

I guess I just assumed all spray lubes were pretty much the same. I use Lyman Qwik Spray. Maybe all this is moot and the die was the problem. Guess I'll know if I get it back with a note attached saying I'm out of my mind