Need a "balanced" .38 round - low recoil w/decent stopping power?

[Green Lantern]

For one of my aunts - her husband died suddenly earlier this year, and she's mostly staying alone. Either in a fairly isolated area around here, or in the increasingly crime-ridden Johnson City TN. She told me that she was going to bring down a small revolver for me to get cleaned up for her. She didn't say for sure, but I assume small revolvler = .38 snub.

My only experience with a .38 was VERY early in my interest with handguns...and I guess it's not really a "snub" if the barrel is 3 inches like Dad's. It was a blued S&W, I think 5-shooter, with the old-style wood grips. That beast had some RECOIL!

Since my aunt isn't a hardcore shooter, full-on +P rated hot loads are out for now. And since I don't know how much, or even IF I can get her to blast at a paper plate in the back yard when I see her again, I don't think starting with ultra-light target wadcutters is the way to go either. Unless she's like me and REALLY takes to it!

So, any suggestions for a "multi-purpose" round that has a fair amount of stopping power, but not so potent that it'll send the gun flying back to her face?

 

[Jim March]

Hmmmm.

This is a classic problem.

I'd like to see somebody load a full wadcutter (flat face profile) faster than most "target wadcutter" loads are set up for...usually 148gr doing only about 700fps from a snubby.

You could bump that to about 800 or so, esp. with a 3" tube, and get mellow recoil with decent stopping power.

The temptation is to go very light and try and get something to expand. Federal tried that with their 110gr Hydrashok "Personal Defense" load and it was an utter failure in snubbies...just not fast enough. From a 4" or longer tube, probably work OK. Cor-Bon briefly loaded their 100gr Pow'R'Ball as 38spl standard pressure but gave that up too and went to +P for the same reason, expanding ammo just has to go fast enough to expand, plain and simple.

Probably your best bet available now is standard pressure 158gr "Keith profile" semi-wadcutters. It has a flat enough nose to deliver some "wallop".

 

[Pilot]

Probably your best bet available now is standard pressure 158gr "Keith profile" semi-wadcutters. It has a flat enough nose to deliver some "wallop".

That's what I would go with.

 

[Brian Williams]

or some of the 135gr Golddots for snubbies.

 

[goings_51]

I use the Federal Premium Self Defense +P in a 17 oz aluminum snubbie with little recoil. I think they are even advertised as low recoil.

 

[Sistema1927]

"Small revolver" could be any number of weapons other than a .38 Special.

Depending upon age, it could be a .22, .32, .38 (maybe or maybe not "Special") or even a .44 or others.

I would first find out exactly what it is, then check that it is in safe servicable condition, and then go looking for decent ammo.

 

[weregunner]

Glaser has a standard pressure prefragmented load in 38 special.It doesn't kick and one has to fire a few to see the impact point for that particular gun and the distance it will be fired at.The only down side is Glasers can be expensive.At the local gun shows here Glasers cost less than at the gun stores.Glaser Blue is in my Taurus 85 at the house.. Hope this helps.There are 110grain standard loads by various companies.Winchester has 110gr.Silvertips.Remington Express 110gr.rounds are available.Federal makes their Premium Personal Defense Hydra Shok 110 gr. load.I have shot Hydra shoks.Those were accurate in my revolver and like the track record of Hydras.None of the above are +P.I do switch over to the 110s when Glasers need to switch out.More of an economical move than anything.

 

[The-Fly]

gold dot 135gr for 38spl are a nice load.

 

[jad0110]

Too bad Federal no longer sells their 125 grn Nyclad standard pressure any longer. However, I do here Speer is considering offering a rough equivalent, a 125 grn JHP in standard pressure.

 

[carlrodd]

what about 125+p gold dot JHPs?

 

[RyanM]

The standard 148 gr full wadcutters are your best bet. Even at about 650 fps, they crush tissue very efficiently. About the equivalent of a 0.376" dia hollowpoint. Okay, so that's not great. But given the extremely deficient penetration of lower power .38 HPs when they expand, and extremely small wound when they don't, it's definitely the best bet. But you'd want to see if you could eventually get her recoil tolerance to where she'd shoot either the Remington FBI load, or Speer 135 gr SBGDs.

 

[usmccpl]

AN older feller I used to know carried a 38 loaded with 148gr hollow based wadcutters loaded backwards moving about 700 fps. Never seen him shoot a person but the St Bernard in his yard was DRT with one shot.






one shot one kill

 

[joneb]

GL, I may be able to track down those nyclads if you are interested, 50/100 maybe. Remington offers .38 spl 158 gr swc 755fps and 200 ft/lbs from a 4" did not say vented.

 

[Jim March]

The Gold Dot 135+P is a fine load and what I use in my own 38 snubbie, but it does have some heat on it. I was assuming for this situation that we're going to avoid +P for reasons related to recoil.

Let's put it this way. Try any brand-name 38 standard pressure Keith profile you can find, and if the recoil is still too much back it down to the 148 target wadcutters (pretty much any brand will be similar). DO NOT run a lead round nose profile, period. And I would also say "don't run a roundnose profile hollowpoint that you don't expect will expand".

Come to think, there's another possibility:

http://ammoman.com/index.htm

Our old friend Ammoman always seems to get deals on closeout Federal ammo. And sure enough under 38 special (menu up top) he's got scads of the 158gr 38+P lead hollowpoint by Federal.

Now as an expanding round, this stuff is absolute crap. The fact that they call this "+P" at all is laughable, it's a typical Federal handgun ammo "wimp out on the powder charge" not-so-special. Odds of this stuff expanding from a snubbie: two words, "snowball" and "hell". Which is probably why it's discontinued. If you want a load like this that is likely to expand, get the Remington variant (and deal with more recoil).

BUT if it doesn't expand, it's the same as a Keith profile SWC. And it IS reliable, clean-shooting factory ammo and due to the wimp-out loading, recoil is moderate.

It'll be one of the better possible answers in this situation where you're just not dealing with enough recoil to get reliable expansion anyways.

Or for $10 less per 500 rounds, heck with it, just get the SWC version with no hollow. Won't make a lick of difference performance-wise, unless you shoot the hollowpoint version in at least a 4"+ barrel in which case, it might expand. Maybe. I still wouldn't put bets on it...shoot it out of a carbine, maybe .

(This isn't to disparage Ammoman in general: he has some damned good deals sometimes and as long as you understand what you're buying and what it can do, he's a great guy to deal with.)

 

[Croyance]

I think if you can get a mid-framed .38 Special or .357 Magnum it would be better. It isn't too heavy, but the extra weight will help anybody deal with recoil. The extra grip space would help too.

 

[nero45acp]

Search for the discontinued 125gr standard pressure Federal Nyclads. They should fit your criteria, but may take a bit of work to find.


nero(only has a few left himself....)

 

[bpisler]

Hornady has 125gr and 158gr XTP loads in 38spl that are standard pressure.

 

[Jkwas]

I have a 3" K frame, and a small frame Taurus snub. I don't like beating up my hand, and also my wife or children may have to shoot it as well, so this has been a constant pursuit of mine. The best balance of recoil vs effectiveness I have found is either the 125gn golddot or the 125gn pmc starfire. I find they have less recoil than standard pressure 158gn loads. There are probably more effective rounds, but these are the "plushest" I have come across.
I just recently tried some Georgia Arms 125gn hollowpoints loaded to 950 fps, and although they claim they are not +p, I have found them to kick a little more than the above mentioned rounds.
I can't speak to the 135gn short barrel ammo, but heavier bullets usually mean more kick, and I think with all the internet hype, the price is up there. I don't believe that the other loads stopped working just because a new one has showed up.

 

[Stainz]

If you want .38 level performance, with less recoil, look for a .32 H&R Magnum, like the S&W 2" 431/432 Airweights or Ruger 3" or 4" SP-101's - all sixshooters - and reportedly discontinued (S&W says they are around, however.). The GA Arms 100gr SJHP, actually a Hornady XTP, makes 1,156 fps from my 4.6" Ruger BHG SSM. From a 2", it should still be over 1,000 fps - and grow easily to .38 Special nominal OD in soft body tissue. Additionally, six of them total more KE than five +P .38's, while offering considerably less recoil energy to the shooter. Ammo is hard to find - but the folks at GA Arms make a nice - and fairly priced - product.

Yeah, I know, the .32 H&RM is dead. I like the Sony Beta tapes, Studebakers, and gooney birds, too.

Stainz

 

[atlctyslkr]

I did some research a few months ago because of a situation very similar to yours. I encourage you to read this thread. Magtech makes a good round (38 SPL 158 Grain Semi Jacketed Hollow Point) and having since tested it I know I made a good choice.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=203513

 

[dispatch]

The "KISS" rule has lead me to keep my .38 snubbies loaded with 158 grain semi-wadcutters. To me the recoil is more manageble than the light weight hot loads, the semi wadcutter cuts a decent size hole without having to rely on expansion (an iffy proposition at snubbie velocities), and you can afford to practice.

 

[Jim March]

Quote:

Hornady has 125gr and 158gr XTP loads in 38spl that are standard pressure.

They shouldn't. They don't expand. Even in +P flavor they're iffy out of snubbies. In standard pressure, "snowball" and "hell" again.

The Hornady XTP slugs are good but they're a deep-punch design that needs speed to work right. As hunting rounds at magnum power levels they rock.

 

[RyanM]

Oh, on the .32 mag, I recommend against it. .32 magnum is actually a ballistic twin of the .380 ACP from similar sized guns, not .38 SPL. It does about as well as the .380 in soft tissue. That is, poopy.

 

[gazpacho]

Off topic but . . .


H O G U E R U B B E R G R I P S

 

[Tequila jake]

only 158 gr shoot to point of aim from my snubbies

I shot the following loads from a new S&W 638 and a new S&W 340PD a couple of weekends ago and only the 158 gr loads shot to point of aim:

110 gr Feder Low-Recoil Personal Defense
148 gr Remington Target Wadcutters
Winchester "White Box" 125 gr JSW
Winchester "White Box" 158 gr LSW
Winchester 158 gr LSWHP ("FBI Load")

Recoil was stiffer with the 158 gr loads, but not unmanageable. The recoil from the FBI load was somewhat greater than that of the standard pressure 158 gr, but not greatly so. It seemed to have more of a torquing or twisting effect than the standard pressure load.

Tequila Jake