Need advice on a Police "Riot" 870

[Rhyno37]

Hey guys, forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology but I am looking a police/prison trade in 870 with a barrel <20". Only want ones manufactured before the freedom group buyout. Just want an older, cheap 870 to bang around with. Mostly will use it for HD and plinking at the range (birdshot, buckshot, maybe some slugs). That being said, I've found 2 already that seem like good candidates and need advice.

1. http://imgur.com/a/PU32x - Remington 870 Magnum 20" $215 - Seller state that this is an ex-Texas Department of Corrections trade in. Listed as good condition, confirmed with the seller that there is no rusting or pitting, just a lot of wear and dings. Butt pad is broke off (planned on buying new furniture anyways). For some reason, I think I like this one the best, has some character. Add $50 for shipping and transfer

2. http://imgur.com/a/0gn8W -Remington 870 Magnum 18" ~$225 - Current bid is actually at $175, but similar guns from this seller end at about $225. Seller states the gun was a police department gun as well, but no markings. States good bore, comes with sling and a tacstar side saddle. The only thing that worries me is about rust under the side saddle. Seems to be in great condition overall. Add $40 for shipping and transfer

So there it is, those are my two top choices I've found currently. Any advice is appreciated, I am having a hard time deciding. Both should come out to the same price. The second gun would probably easier to purchase because the seller accepts credit cards, where as the first requires a money order or check. Both sellers have an FFL and flawless feedback.

What do y'all think?

 

[WestKentucky]

It's an 870, in dry weather with a generous oiling it still rusts. The only thing I would suggest is to ask if they have the metal trigger housing. That is another indication of age (quality) specific to the law enforcement guns according to what little I know about them. Good luck.

 

[lemaymiami]

The weapon you're looking for is a basic Remington 870 Wingmaster configured as you've stated (most were equipped with 18" barrels but I've handled a few with 20" barrels). Those riot guns were never marked as such and came with a four round tube and simple bead sight with the designation Wingmaster on the receiver. In recent years they've been marked as 870P and will have the "police" designation on the receiver, none of the ones I'm familiar with were ever designated as magnums at all.... By the way almost every one that I handled were marked improved cylinder on the barrel. Someone else will have to say when the "police" marked shotguns first appeared - I never saw the first one in our weapons room through 1995 at my agency...

In truth many, many shotguns were purchased and used by a variety of agencies in several makes, some with simple bead sights (my preference for a "riot gun" and what I carried all my years in police work, 1973 - 1995) or with standard rifle sights like you'll see on any slug gun. All were smoothbore, whether with rifle sights or bead sights, and came standard with walnut stocks. I've seen and handled them with both parkerized and blued finishes (most of the ones I used were at best "rack grade" weapons that had seen their share of abuse either in an electro lock or in the trunk of a patrol car). Surprisingly most will hardly have a lot of rounds through them since most outfits only qualified with them annually (and usually had to drag their officers to the range for shotgun work). On the street I'll bet that most never fired a single round if my experience is anything to go by...

I scanned auction sites for a year or two looking for one of those old poppers. I noted that any with PD or agency markings on them seemed to marked up above what I thought they were worth (but 'cheap' is an accurate description in my case....). I did see one or two real beauties that had obviously never seen service. They were definitely above my price range well before the close of auction. In my case I went instead for a new riot configured Remington 870 Express with synthetic stocks and haven't regretted it in the slightest bit. My Express is in much, much better condition than any of the old riot guns I carried on the street....

 

[Rhyno37]

It's an 870, in dry weather with a generous oiling it still rusts. The only thing I would suggest is to ask if they have the metal trigger housing. That is another indication of age (quality) specific to the law enforcement guns according to what little I know about them. Good luck.

Both have metal trigger housings. What does that place them at as far as date? Couldn't find one.

 

[Rhyno37]

The weapon you're looking for is a basic Remington 870 Wingmaster configured as you've stated (most were equipped with 18" barrels but I've handled a few with 20" barrels). Those riot guns were never marked as such and came with a four round tube and simple bead sight with the designation Wingmaster on the receiver. In recent years they've been marked as 870P and will have the "police" designation on the receiver, none of the ones I'm familiar with were ever designated as magnums at all.... By the way almost every one that I handled were marked improved cylinder on the barrel. Someone else will have to say when the "police" marked shotguns first appeared - I never saw the first one in our weapons room through 1995 at my agency...

In truth many, many shotguns were purchased and used by a variety of agencies in several makes, some with simple bead sights (my preference for a "riot gun" and what I carried all my years in police work, 1973 - 1995) or with standard rifle sights like you'll see on any slug gun. All were smoothbore, whether with rifle sights or bead sights, and came standard with walnut stocks. I've seen and handled them with both parkerized and blued finishes (most of the ones I used were at best "rack grade" weapons that had seen their share of abuse either in an electro lock or in the trunk of a patrol car). Surprisingly most will hardly have a lot of rounds through them since most outfits only qualified with them annually (and usually had to drag their officers to the range for shotgun work). On the street I'll bet that most never fired a single round if my experience is anything to go by...

I scanned auction sites for a year or two looking for one of those old poppers. I noted that any with PD or agency markings on them seemed to marked up above what I thought they were worth (but 'cheap' is an accurate description in my case....). I did see one or two real beauties that had obviously never seen service. They were definitely above my price range well before the close of auction. In my case I went instead for a new riot configured Remington 870 Express with synthetic stocks and haven't regretted it in the slightest bit. My Express is in much, much better condition than any of the old riot guns I carried on the street....

So you don't recommend these two shotguns? I'm almost positive that both are former "riot" guns. The first has a sticker saying Texas Department of Corrections and then has a serial number engraved. Second one comes from a dealer who has sold many PD trade ins. Both are cylinder choke.

Besides that do you know of any places to look? I don't see any wingmaster trade ins on armslist nor gunbroker. I know summitgunbroker has them but they've been out for a while.

 

[Lone Star]

You answered your own question when you mentioned rust on one. No buy gun with rust. Period. Never, nohow. Just don't.

Personally, I'd be looking for a wooden stocked one with rifle sights to facilitate shooting slugs. These were made mainly for sale to those unfortunates who have to hunt deer in states where only shotguns are allowed for such. Nice looking and effective. And less likely to have been abused in childhood by some uncaring cop shop.

And the stocks were checkered, although it was usually impressed in older guns. I care abut appearance.

 

[lemaymiami]

When I was doing my searches I almost always found one or two on Gunbroker. My initial search always listed just "wingmaster 12". Any searches when I added "police" or "riot" rarely showed much at all. You'll have to wade through three or four pages of results each time -but you'll quickly learn to spot the standouts in your category.

I deliberately didn't make a recommendation on the two you found since every old gun really needs some hands on evaluation to see what shape it's in, if possible. I have seen Remington magnums listed as ex-police or ex-corrections guns. I figure that they came somewhere between simple Wingmaster marked guns and the newer Police marked guns (but that's just a guess on my part). If you do get one remember that you'd be hard pressed to find a better close quarters round than a simple 2 3/4" 00buck one.... Magnum rounds sound great but the extra kick, flash, and noise make a second shot just tougher period (and won't stop your target much better than the original round.... in my opinion).

 

[hboy35]

Could always go with a new one

You just missed the sale at CDNN--had Remington 870 tacticals for $299 brand new. If you aren't in a hurry, bookmark
http://summitgunbroker.com//
and keep an eye out there. He has had police trade in 870s in the past for well within your price range.
Good luck.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Those guns are not Wimgmasters I would pass. You can buy a Maverick 88 nib for $200 with a 20" barrel and a nine 2 3/4" shot capacity (8 3" shells). It is very easy to mount a light on the Maverick 88. I have a 14 year old Maverick 88 security model. I have had no problems at all with the 88. I have a 1,600 lumen light I use for hunting and 300 lumen light for in the house. I just used an elastic cuff to carry 10 extra shells, gives me 19 shots on the gun. I have less than $275 in the gun, light mount, lights and the cuff. My Maverick 88 is not a safe queen. I use the 88 when we drive deer. I also try to shoot a couple rounds of skeet every month or so with the 88. Over the years that gun has fired a bunch of shells.

 

[joe_security]

I have one marked 870 magnum, 20 inch barrel. I don't like the weight of the steel receiver. You may choose to avoid the heavier magnum version if you use 2 3/4 shells like me. Its strictly an emergency HD weapon , if I had to use it for any other purpose I would find a lighter shotgun. It looks like the ones you are considering are good value for the money. Mine gave good performance at the local range using slugs, that's the only benefit to the heavier receiver.

 

[TomADC]

Mine is marked Remington 870 Magnum 18" barrel and speed feed stock, metal trigger guard. I think I bought it 15-16 years ago. Its not a Express model.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Rhyno once you shoot a true Wingmaster you will not want a shotgun from the express family. The Wingmaster has much better fit and finish than the express family. I used to love Remington shotguns. Once the express came out Remington gave up on building a better gun. They saw they could build rough finished guns and sell them just as well as the better grade of gun. If you bide your time you can find a real Wingmaster for the same price as the guns you are looking at now. I have a nice 20ga graded Wingmaster I bought for $250. Barrels are a dime a dozen. Find a nice gun and put the barrel you want on the gun.

When you are buying the express models it makes no difference if the gun has a metal or a plastic trigger group. If something goes wrong with the trigger group it is a good chance you will have to replace the whole trigger group. It is not that the parts cannot be replaced, parts suppliers don't want to mess with all the parts. I have never replaced a Remington trigger group but a trigger group for a Mossberg 500 is around $35 shipped to your front door.

 

[Rhyno37]

Well I may have found the one guys. It's an 870 Wingmaster with a 20" smooth bore barrel with rifle sights. Seller says it's a police trade in, has rack # painted on stock. Seller states some mild pitting on the receiver, but otherwise very good condition. States mechanically it is excellent. $285 shipped. Does this seem like a good deal? I have a friend who will do a transfer for free.

Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V6TWU

 

[MAKster]

These old police surplus 870s are just Wingmasters with short barrels. So unless there is a specific reason why you want one that was owned by a police department, you will likely find a better deal just getting a used Wingmaster.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Well I may have found the one guys. It's an 870 Wingmaster with a 20" smooth bore barrel with rifle sights. Seller says it's a police trade in, has rack # painted on stock. Seller states some mild pitting on the receiver, but otherwise very good condition. States mechanically it is excellent. $285 shipped. Does this seem like a good deal? I have a friend who will do a transfer for free.

Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V6TWU

I like it for that money.

The sights are a little snag-tastic for me but I learned to deal with my 590 ghost rings, so there's that.

A long mag and Bob's yer uncle.

Todd.

 

[MikeJackmin]

That's the one. Pretty good price, too.

Here's a tip - when you disassemble your new 870, stand it up straight with the barrel pointed to the ceiling and open the action just a little. The forend will want to drop about half way down. Leave the forend in that position while you remove the barrel. This takes some of the mechanical stress off the other parts during disassembly.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Old Wingmaster marked 870 Riot guns had 20" smoothbore bead sight barrels.

The original 870 Police 870s were the same, save with 18" bead sight barrels.

They had short (7") 'corncob' or ribbed forearms and uncheckered buttstocks with buttplates, not recoil pads. Furniture at the time was plain straight grain walnut for the most part. The old ones have 2 3/4" chambers. Bolts and lifters were bright chrome.

Remington started producing the Police and Riot 870s shortly after the 870 was introduced.

Here's a listing, with pictures, for the 870 Riot gun - http://www.gunsamerica.com/903903517/REMINGTON-870-RIOT-GUN-1969.htm This one was 'new' enough to have a recoil pad, or had one added.

Another one - http://www.gunsamerica.com/977897913/REMINGTON-870-WINGMASTER-RIOT-POLICE-12G.htm This one looks to have been parkerized, the mag extension was added later, but the furniture looks 'period.' Note the buttplate.

Most PD trades look bad on the outside but are in good mechanical condition on the inside. However, it's best to be able to get hands on the shotgun before buying if you don't know the seller's reputation well. And it's good to know your way around an 870 before buying a used one.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Well I may have found the one guys. It's an 870 Wingmaster with a 20" smooth bore barrel with rifle sights. Seller says it's a police trade in, has rack # painted on stock. Seller states some mild pitting on the receiver, but otherwise very good condition. States mechanically it is excellent. $285 shipped. Does this seem like a good deal? I have a friend who will do a transfer for free.

Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/V6TWU

That is a nice gun. Tell him you need a picture of the bore. If the cylinder is pitted the gun will bind up. When the shell goes off the brass expands to the size of the cylinder, including the pits. If will only accept a check or money order or says as is - sale is final let hm keep the gun.