Need advice on joining the military

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Aikibiker

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I am graduating with a bachelors degree in December and thinking very seriously about joining the military. I was hoping for some advice from some of the more experienced members of the board.

This is what I would like to do, become an officer (they get paid better and I like ordering people around), work as an MP, get stationed in Japan (I learned the Army has very small logistics base just north of Tokyo with an attached MP unit) when I am not off in some Mideast pesthole getting shot at.

As of right now I am only thinking of joining the Air Force or the Army. It will boil down to who can give me what I want.

So how do I get the rank, job, and base assignment I want? I have heard about a contract. How do I go about getting one? Do I walk into the recruiter's office with a lawyer? I have heard there are "officer recruiter" that are different from regular recruiters. How do I get in touch with them?

I have done a lot of research over the last few weeks, but I would like some first hand knowledge.
 
I was enlisted in the army for 3 years, and discharged early because I got an ROTC scholarship from the Air Force, so I know both services.

First of all, there are no guarantees in the military. it's called service for a reason. You MAY get where you want to go, but in the end, it's where uncle sam needs you that's important.

Definately go the officer route. As far as choice in duty station, officers typically don't get as much choice as enlisted, so keep that in mind. And, if you're a good officer, you won't do any real "ordering around" for a while. Your job as a new second lieutenant will be to sit there, be quiet, and LEARN from your senior NCOs.

Anyways, if you want to go the MP route, I'd say go Air force. The AF Security forces are way better trained, and more respected than the Army MPs. But keep in mind one thing that i see my fellow cadets doing all the time: Your job is not so much to yell and be a hardass. It's more like being a parent. Your job is to make sure your soldiers are trained and ready, well rested, and as happy as possible.

DEFINATELY talk to an officer recruiter or career counselor. The regular ones will try to get you to enlist, which sucks, I know :-D

Also, as an officer, you're NEVER really out of the military. There isn't any set enlistment time like there is if you actually enlist. You have a minimum requirement (usually four years) then you can resign your commission. But, in time of war, you can ALWAYS be called back for the rest of your life. So don't join if you don't want to serve.

The military is a very rewarding thing, but it's all what you make of it. Good luck.

James
 
Thanks thefitzvh,

Especially for the advice on leading men, what little I know on the subject comes from reading Richard Marcinko's books. I figured I would have to throw my self on the mercy of my NCOs.

What kind of training do AF security police recieve that Army MPs don't?

I have seen lots of footage of Army MPs in Iraq doing building entries. It looked like the first two guys in the stack had MP-5s and the rest had M-4s. Do AF SPs get non-standard weapons for combat operations? I would hate to have to clear a house with a 20in M-16a2 or worse an M9.
 
The army MPs you saw were most likely SRTs (like a swat)

The air force just has better training for their MPs. They're more physically fit (required to be) and they get more time on the range. In the army, the bad@$$es go into the infantry. In the air force, they either fly or go security forces.

As far as weapons, standard units have M4s and M9s, and SRT type units have M4s, MP5s, sometimes 1911s, M9s, and a host of other crap, including SAWS and 50 cal machine guns on top of humvees. If you'd like, I can give you an address of a security forces officer who teaches at my detatchment. Just ship me a PM with your email address in it.

I re-read my post, and it sounded like I was being an ???????. I didn't mean to. I just want to make sure you know that you must learn to follow before you can lead. Remember that always, and take care of your soldiers, and you'll be a great officer. Any more questions, feel free to ask me.

James
 
Not an easy question.

Hard to become an officer off the street (unless you have a medical specialty). You can apply for OCS. However, there is no guarantee that you will get selected or make it.

I would suggest that you enlist for the shortest time possible. In the Army I think that's 2 or 3 years. I would suggest doing that an infantryman in the 82nd. Everyone knows the 82nd and it will pretty much ensure you get to go to Airborne school (with chances to attend other good schools).

You can try to get to OCS from there or if you decide the Army isn't for you you're out in a few years.

The Army MP's run the entire line. Never know what you'll get there.

Talking with a recruiter won't hurt. Just don't sign anything till you're sure that's what you want. I think most don't deserve the bad rep they get. The Army is a huge place and often they really don't know the specific job that you'll be doing.

Good Luck with it, if you have specific questions I can answer I will.
 
If you want a high speed life, have quality of life, and think you can hack it, I'm suggesting you join the Air Force as an officer with either the CCT's or the PJ's. You will be able to attend all the cool schools like air assault, airborne, HALO, SCUBA and many more. If you want to live a slightly more sedate lifestyle, then join as a security forces officer. You may be able to work out a base of preference with your recruiter, but as far as never spending time in a middle eastern hellhole give up that dream in a hurry. If you want action, you'll be sent to where the action is. With security forces providing air base ground defense for the Air Force that usually means the middle east. Have fun with whatever you decide to do. Oh, as far as I know Japan is going to be a pain if not impossible if you'd like to bring personally owned firearms. I am stationed in Germany and the firearms laws here are ridiculous.

Nick
 
You can apply for OCS. However, there is no guarantee that you will get selected or make it.
Click to expand...

Not true. Well, partially not true. You can get a guaranteed OCS contract in the Army. You move straight from BCT to OCS. You let them know the top ten branches you want and then they place you where you want generally hooiking you up with somethin gin your top five. But at the end of the day, your branch depends on the needs of the Army. How do I know? I just did it in Feb.

What's not guaranteed is that you will make it through BCT and OCS. Although I'd say you have no place being an officer if you can't make it through those two schools...

Mark
 
also,,,

when you enlist,,,no matter which branch you sign and unless things have changed you sign for SIX years then its up to THEM how much is active and how much is inactive.

in the present state of affairs you could spend the whole 6 active,

standard (for the navy) was 4 active 2 inactive, i did 5 and 1 myself.

i too recommend becoming enlisted first and then trying to make officer that way, we called officers who'd been enlisted first "mustangs" and a mustang officer was generally more well repected than say an academy brat or ocs officer because the mustang had "been there"

although any officer, regardless of origin, can be a good officer or a bad officer.

just my $0.02
 
Do yourself a favor, don't enlist, go commissioned from the start.

I have a guy that works for me that had his BA before he enlisted. It's been two years now, struggling to get his application for OTS in and approved. It took me getting involved to make sure this young guy got the ball rolling in his favor, no one else ever took his hand and showed him the way, because they were all happy to have this intelligent kid working for them, instead of the other way around. He is off to OTS in January.:D

The Air Force Security Forces do have a SWAT team at most bases, it's called EST for Emergency Services Team. They are normally outfitted with high speed gear, but not the MP5, as far as I know. Several years ago the Air Force stopped funding EST. At most bases the EST is not funded well, so it may be hard to get money to get the good gear. Spangdahlem has an active EST, with money allocated by the unit. They have good gear and are pretty well trained.

Security Forces is supposed to get the M4 starting this year at most bases, some of the more skilled (high deployment) units have already got theirs and are already using them.

Air Force or Army, that's a decision you will have to decide upon on your own. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong.
 
Another good thing about a commision is that it is open-ended. If you get tired a few years down the road, you can quit. Just like a job. Good luck.

GT
 
Aikibiker, so, how far up you a$$ is your head?
“I like ordering people aroundâ€
Click to expand...
Sounds like you’re off to a GREAT START at being an officer!
Why care about the people in your commend? JUST YELL AT EM’ AND BOSS EM’ AROUND.
It must be what serving your country is all about huh? My suggestion to you is that if you like ordering people around, manage a McDonalds.

I think you need to grow up a whole lot more before you seriously consider the military, although it is a great place to grow up.
With that attitude, I would hate to have been led by you.
And don’t think for a second that any soldier would not see thru you as some collage a$$ed punk that decided it would be fun to go play with guns. Gee how fun!

So your whole basis of military service are books from Captain Marcinko?
There’s a sound foundation.
So why don’t you follow his lead?
Start at the bottom to see what it’s like, before you start “..ordering people aroundâ€

…when I am not off in some Mideast pesthole getting shot at
Click to expand...
What the hell do you mean by that? Its part of the job, or did you forget to think that far ahead?
Oh wait, I forgot, you want to be an officer and order people around.
Why think about your actions, you don’t have to, you just have to order the little people around to do the fighting. Huh?
Next time you open your mouth try to remember that there are good men and women out in those same “pestholes†dieing daily trying to keep you’re a$$ safe back here at home.

Good choice of words, SIR

People like you really piss me off, ~Joel.

RTFM
 
Good comment TarpleyG
Another good thing about a commision is that it is open-ended. If you get tired a few years down the road, you can quit. Just like a job.
Click to expand...
Why commit to anything. If it gets hard just throw up your hands and say "I don't like it any more, people are shooting at me, I quit."

RTFM
 
This is what I would like to do, become an officer (they get paid better and I like ordering people around), work as an MP, get stationed in Japan (I learned the Army has very small logistics base just north of Tokyo with an attached MP unit) when I am not off in some Mideast pesthole getting shot at.
Click to expand...

As a former Army officer, let me take this opportunity to say that if this is your attitude, stay the :cuss: away. The military needs people with that attitude like I need an extra hole in my head.
 
If you do want to be an officer, there are some very important first steps you must take to be successful.

1) Admit you know nothing.
2) Recognize that NCO's are "The Backbone Of The Army".
3) Realize that without NCO's, commissioned officers would be A) lost, and B) useless as mammaries on a boar hog.
4) Ask your NCO's for the benefit of their wisdom and their guidance.
5) Support your NCO's and Soldiers fully.
6) Never, I repeat, NEVER, fail your NCO's, for without them, you would fail.

If you can do these things, you will be heading in the right direction.

As far as "ordering people around", these soldiers or airmen will very quickly pick up on any superiority complex an officer has, and will do everything in their powers to thwart that officers career. And believe me, they are very capable of doing just that. Leadership begins with respect, and it's a two-way street. If you don't respect your subordinates, they will never respect you. They may required to respect the rank and/or duty position, but that doesn't mean they have to respect the person wearing the rank. That's not to say you have to coddle them, just be respectful. Heck, I was quite well known to be a PITA, but I never made it personal. I just expected my soldiers to follow the regulations and be the best soldier they could be. You don't have to be their friend, you aren't supposed to be. But, you do have to be friendly.

Of course, this is just the opinion of a retired NCO. You can heed it or ignore it, it's all up to you.

Frank
 
All I can say is I was your age once. I chose the Army because of tradition. Thirty years later I am glad I chose the Army because people have seemed to gain respect for the military and the Army is the one that has the most respect and gratitude from J. Q. Public. The Air Force? Not even close. I think most people equate that with a "pretend" service, except of course for the fighter jocks, which equal about 0.001% of the Air Force personnel. Being an Army veteran gives me an edge with my pals who were not in the service, as well as Air Force and Navy peers. They usually explain, "I was not in the Army, but I was in the Air Force," with a sheepish grin. ;) The Marines are the only other branch that gets respect like the Army, but frankly, people look at a marine as a child who isn't quite right in the head. ;)

As you get older, the stuff you chose earlier either comforts you, or comes back to haunt you.

BTW, the idea of you bossing people around is laughable. An O1 is the lowest form of life on the planet. Get rid of that idea. Work with a good NCO or two to break you in. Please take this in the spirit it is offered. No insults intended to my fellow members. Good luck!
 
Okay, fella, in case you haven't figured it out, some of your comments ummmm.....could have been chosen better.

If you like "ordering people around", well, guess what bud, you're gonna have a very bad time. First of all, as a butterbar you're not really going to be in any serious command position. If you try it anyway, it's going to bite you, because you WILL pi$$ off your noncoms, superiors, WO's, and just about everyone in between, and believe me, they WILL make you look like a fool.

OEF Vet hit it on the head: NCO's are the Backbone of the Army. Officer's make policy, but the mission happens via the enlisted guys. Don't forget it.
Those senior NCO's can step up and do an officer's job if they had to, but it isn't the other way around.

As far as the "mideast pesthole" thing.....not gonna go into that. Leave it alone until you've been there.

FWIW, the best ossifers I've seen have been enlisted first. It's a little bit of a longer road, but you'll be grateful if you do a tour in the trenches. It will A) mature you a little bit, B) give you a more rounded-out view of what the life is like (because it is a way of life not a job....), and C) when you get that far and go "Green to Gold" or whatever, you'll know what your guys are going through to get the mission completed. Nothing torques
guys off more after working like slaves for 14 or 15 hours and hearing some
jer&%ff asking "why this isn't done yet?".

Vent mode disengaged.

ANM
 
Aikibiker...

"This is what I would like to do, become an officer (they get paid better and I like ordering people around),"

I sincerely hope that this was a joke (however poorly thought out) and not your true feelings. For if the latter, then you should not consider a military career IN ANY RANK!

Good officers DO NOT order people around because they "like it". They give orders to be sure, but good officers lead and motivate people. Many good comments in the last few posts that I cannot improve upon, but just echo that the service is not a place to go to because someone will give you what you want.

You may want to read Robert Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" and see what young Johnny Rico learned about military service, it may helpe you sort things out.
 
I'd like to say, as a former enlisted guy in the Navy, that your desire to "...order people around" is a great way to deep-six your budding career as an officer.

Officers are only as good as their enlisted personnel "allow" them to be; treat them like crap, and you'll find out the hard way.

Second, military service is about SERVICE to your country, not about what you want, or what the military can do for you. Self is not important, your shipmates, or whatever, are.

I'd suggest, considering what you've written in your opening post, to seriously re-evaluate your desire to serve.
 
OK, there have been enough comments about the "order people around" comment. I'll just say that this comment, albeit made in jest, shows some degree of immaturity. There is nothing wrong with that, we've all been young and immature once. If you go in be sure to go in with the attitude that you want to learn, you can learn from anyone and the fact that your NCOs will in some cases be combat vets with 20 years or more experience you have something to learn from them. Even a 21-22 yo E4 is going to have 3-4 years experience in the military- which will be 3-4 years more than you have.

Now I'm going to throw in another plug for the possibility of enlisting for a few years first. Junior officers who were enlisted first are usually much better junior officers. You will have more respect from the enlisted ranks and even the officer ranks will probably respect you more than other junior officers simply because you will know what you are doing.

Another plus is potentially financial. You went to college on your own, i.e. not on an ROTC scholarship or for free at an academy. You may have some student loans. If you join the Army as an officer you get paid your salary. If you enlist with a degree the Army will put you in as an E4 (about a 2-4 year paygrade skip) and you can have up to $60,000 of your student loans paid off (3 year enlistment), plus depending upon the job you choose you may also get an enlistment bonus. If you have more than $10-20K in student loans, the lower salary for the first few years may be worth the trade off to have those loans taken care of.

You'll also have the opportunity to learn the military. You will see it from another perspective which will allow you to understand it better. You will have time, and experiences, which will mature you. You will be a better leader.

Also, this can give you a chance to try something else out. Enlist as Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery. Join the Rangers or Green Barets (if you are in incredible physical condition). You'll get some experiences you otherwise couldn't have. Then after your enlistment is up you can go to OCS and change to MP.

If you do go this route, you may manage to get selected for OCS while on your first enlistment. However, don't plan on that (it isn't garaunteed so don't count on it- it will be an added bonus if you get it). Enlist for 2 or 3 years, plan on spending that time as enlisted, then when it is up you can go to OCS.
 
pardon my ignorance, what are the differences between enlisting and commission, and the pros and cons?
 
RTFM,

It was a joke. I guess I need to start using the smilies.

I have always figured that a freshly minted LT. was considered the lowest form of life on the face of the earth.

As for combat in the Mideast it was my understanding that at present tours are from six months to one and a half years. I am not sure how long the commitment is for officer status, but I would imagine it is at least four years active duty and more probably six. I have to go somewhere when I am not on rotation in Iraq or Afghanistan.

OEF_VET,

Thank you for your advice I will take it to heart. If you have anymore please post it.

Ala Dan,

No way, I am to much of a wuss to be a Ranger.

Chaim,

That was the advice a recruiter gave me when I talked to him in passing. What's your day job again? :)

Can I do the same thing in the AF? Join as an enlisted man for a few years then reenlist and go to officer's school?

Financially I am in good shape. I made it through school without any debt (by the grace of God). My one worry is making enough money to send home to my Mom when I leave, as I am providing half the monthly income right now. I don't want her to lose the house. I was wondering if I can claim her as a dependent, but that is probably something I will have to discuss with the guys at MEPS.
 
Skunk,

The short answer is this:

Enlisted personnel (in the Army Private - Sergeant Major of the Army) are enlisted. If you enlist in the military, you will start somewhere between Private and Specialist depending on your prior education and some other factors once you leave Basic Training.
Officers (in the Army 2nd Lieutenant-full General) are commissioned. If you graduate from Officer Candidate School, ROTC, or one of the military academies (e.g. West Point), you will be commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant. Doctors and lawyers are usually direct-commissioned as Captains.
Warrant officers are just plain wierd. :D (Higher warrant officer ranks are, legally speaking, commisisoned officers).

There is some esoteric stuff differentiating Regular Army commissions from Reserve commisions (even though either one can be serving active duty). Commissions are usually open-ended; you serve some minimum period (5-6 years, more for pilots) and then you can resign more or less at will. It isn't "retiring" unless you have 20+ years of active service (with some exceptions and other wierdness).

I personally think too much is made of prior enlisted service making you a better officer. Of course, I would say that since I'm a West Point grad. :D It only makes you a better officer if you weren't a scumbag as an enlisted. Some prior service guys I met were great officers. But alot of them were dirtbags, and many of the people who couldn't hack it at West Point were prior enlisted guys.
 
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Just make sure you really want it. Military life is not for everybody. And, at least when you're enlisted, you can't just change careers if you don't like it. And being an officer generally means lots of meetings, paperwork, etc. Taking responsibility for your subordinates, and taking care of them at the same time. Making them trust you while at the same time being in a position where you might have to order them off to their deaths.

You ready for that?

As for 2LTs...depends. I've seen Spec-4s that have their stuff together better than the VAST majority of second looies I've ever met. All of the REALLY GOOD officers I've known were NCOs first.

Which, you know, is one of the reasons I enlisted in the Guard. I planned all of my life to go into the Air Force, as an officer, and someway, some how, become a pilot or air crew. I thought, though, from what my dad taught me (26 years USAF, made Senior Master Sergeant before retiring) that I would be a better leader and a better officer if I spent time as a regular enlisted man first.

Well, plans change, I guess. Now, instead of the Air Force I'm looking at law school. Ah, well...
 
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