Kevin Rohrer
Member
Any single-stage, new or used is fine. You can pickup a perfectly good Herters Super 3 on EBay for $50 or less, or you can get a Rockchucker for twice that.
I still think you would like the CH '444', but that costs $265 new.
Need Advice On Reloading Equipment
- Thread starter bk1
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Any single-stage, new or used is fine. You can pickup a perfectly good Herters Super 3 on EBay for $50 or less, or you can get a Rockchucker for twice that.
I still think you would like the CH '444', but that costs $265 new.
rfwobbly
Member
Another view
BK -
I'm also a big supporter of starting on a single stage, or a press that can be run as a single stage. Depending on your personal mechanical skills, reloading can take different adjustment periods. I'm an engineer, ex-mechanic, and repair clocks as a hobby, so it took me about 3.5 seconds. If you have a PhD in English Lit and currently work at the DNC, well maybe 3.5 years.
Everybody's different, and there is a lot to learn.
Unlike some, I'm not going to recommend a press brand. That's silly. That's like saying my wife's underwear is comfortable for her, so it will be just as comfortable on me too. There's just some things in this world that hinge on personal decisions.
What I will suggest is that you'll have the best chance if match your press selection to a loading volume. Think of the press as a vehicle. If you moved 200 concrete block every morning, then you'd be silly to buy a Mercedes. No mater how many nice features it had, it's simply not designed for the job. In the same way, if you need 100 rounds per week, that's a completely different press than 1000 rounds per week. Defining the ammo volume will narrow your search to a maximum of 4 presses, and then the choices become much easier.
I will say that the strongest reason to start on a single stage is that if your volumes do turn out to be high, very high, or even extremely high, you'll always want a single-stage to do those "special jobs" or make up test cartridges. You'll just never out-grow your need for a single-stage.
Hope this helps!
BK -
I'm also a big supporter of starting on a single stage, or a press that can be run as a single stage. Depending on your personal mechanical skills, reloading can take different adjustment periods. I'm an engineer, ex-mechanic, and repair clocks as a hobby, so it took me about 3.5 seconds. If you have a PhD in English Lit and currently work at the DNC, well maybe 3.5 years.
Everybody's different, and there is a lot to learn.Unlike some, I'm not going to recommend a press brand. That's silly. That's like saying my wife's underwear is comfortable for her, so it will be just as comfortable on me too. There's just some things in this world that hinge on personal decisions.
What I will suggest is that you'll have the best chance if match your press selection to a loading volume. Think of the press as a vehicle. If you moved 200 concrete block every morning, then you'd be silly to buy a Mercedes. No mater how many nice features it had, it's simply not designed for the job. In the same way, if you need 100 rounds per week, that's a completely different press than 1000 rounds per week. Defining the ammo volume will narrow your search to a maximum of 4 presses, and then the choices become much easier.
I will say that the strongest reason to start on a single stage is that if your volumes do turn out to be high, very high, or even extremely high, you'll always want a single-stage to do those "special jobs" or make up test cartridges. You'll just never out-grow your need for a single-stage.
Hope this helps!
Well, I'm thinking now that I'll get a Lee single stage kit to start with. Which kit should I get: http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Single-Stage
I am thinking that this is what I will get:
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Breech-Lock-Challenger-Kit.html
Then, after getting used to the basics I'll upgrade to a 550b.
I am thinking that this is what I will get:
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Breech-Lock-Challenger-Kit.html
Then, after getting used to the basics I'll upgrade to a 550b.
Last edited:
Lost Sheep
Member
To Kit or not to Kit?
Whether to buy a kit or assemble your own is a personal decision. You will have to evaluate the importance of the deciding factors for yourself, but I will venture to point out a couple of them.
When you buy a kit, you are buying a collection of items some marketing genius decided are good for you. The marketing genius might be of like mind to you or might not.
When you assemble your own kit, you might spend a little more money (like going to a restaurant and ordering a-la-carte), but you will have JUST the items you want. It is axiomatic that any kit you buy will have stuff you don't want and will lack some stuff you do. For example, I have no use for a powder measure with a single-stage press.
When you trade off things from the kit that you don't like for stuff you do like, you will likely lose money (unless you are a great bargainer, or lucky).
You can assemble a kit as slowly as you want, adding accessories as you decide you need/want them. I loaded for several years before I had a bullet puller, and a couple of decades more after I had one before I ever needed to use it.
When you put in the extra thought it takes to assemble your own kit, you will be gaining knowledge (not only about reloading, but also about yourself, your shooting style, your loading style and goals). This is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it is harder to do from books - learning what you don't like is much easier hands-on and takes longer. On the other hand, going slower is a little cheaper and you may well learn more thoroughly than jumping in with both feet.
As I said in the beginning of this post, it is up to you and only you know your learning style. I just suggest not going with a default decision to buy a kit without thinking about the alternative.
Oh, I recommend cast iron over aluminum, whatever you buy. That's another personal preference. Cast iron wears like, well, like cast iron. Aluminum is softer and will require a bit more cleaning and lubrication to last equally as long.
Good luck.
Lost Sheep
Whether to buy a kit or assemble your own is a personal decision. You will have to evaluate the importance of the deciding factors for yourself, but I will venture to point out a couple of them.
When you buy a kit, you are buying a collection of items some marketing genius decided are good for you. The marketing genius might be of like mind to you or might not.
When you assemble your own kit, you might spend a little more money (like going to a restaurant and ordering a-la-carte), but you will have JUST the items you want. It is axiomatic that any kit you buy will have stuff you don't want and will lack some stuff you do. For example, I have no use for a powder measure with a single-stage press.
When you trade off things from the kit that you don't like for stuff you do like, you will likely lose money (unless you are a great bargainer, or lucky).
You can assemble a kit as slowly as you want, adding accessories as you decide you need/want them. I loaded for several years before I had a bullet puller, and a couple of decades more after I had one before I ever needed to use it.
When you put in the extra thought it takes to assemble your own kit, you will be gaining knowledge (not only about reloading, but also about yourself, your shooting style, your loading style and goals). This is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it is harder to do from books - learning what you don't like is much easier hands-on and takes longer. On the other hand, going slower is a little cheaper and you may well learn more thoroughly than jumping in with both feet.
As I said in the beginning of this post, it is up to you and only you know your learning style. I just suggest not going with a default decision to buy a kit without thinking about the alternative.
Oh, I recommend cast iron over aluminum, whatever you buy. That's another personal preference. Cast iron wears like, well, like cast iron. Aluminum is softer and will require a bit more cleaning and lubrication to last equally as long.
Good luck.
Lost Sheep
Woolecox
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 270
Yes, good single stage. I mean a GOOD single stage like the Redding Big Boss II or Forster Coax. Either will probably last you more than a life time. Dies for each are excellent but Redding has better availability.
My next purchase would be a Lee Classic Turret Press for loading pistol ammo. Fairly inexpensive set up and loads darn fine quality pistol ammo at a rate of about 200 per hour.
My next purchase would be a Lee Classic Turret Press for loading pistol ammo. Fairly inexpensive set up and loads darn fine quality pistol ammo at a rate of about 200 per hour.
Lost Sheep
Member
Some armchair research
When I made by "Kit or not to Kit" post post I was not at home. Here are some references I have collected that might be of interest to any novice wanting to get started.
My first advice: Read "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading.
Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.
The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171
The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214
The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=43055
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22344
"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
I have a thread "To Kit or Not to Kit?" that describes different philosophies of buying or assembling a kit one piece at a time.
rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332
Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)
Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410
Lost Sheep
When I made by "Kit or not to Kit" post post I was not at home. Here are some references I have collected that might be of interest to any novice wanting to get started.
My first advice: Read "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading.
Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.
The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171
The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214
The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php?t=43055
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22344
"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
I have a thread "To Kit or Not to Kit?" that describes different philosophies of buying or assembling a kit one piece at a time.
rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332
Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)
Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410
Lost Sheep
oldreloader
Member
I agree with Lost Sheep's "Kit or Not to Kit". Every time I buy a "kit" or "package" I wind up scrapping at least half of it.
I am not trying to hijack the op's thread, rather would like to pose a question that may be relevant. I too am thinking of making the investment to begin reloading and reading with great interest the single vs. turret vs. progressive for beginners debate. My question is: can a progressive press be used much like a single stage if you load a single round at a time?
The Hornady LNL AP looks very attractive when you factor the free bullets into the price.
The Hornady LNL AP looks very attractive when you factor the free bullets into the price.
I've not seen anyone state "QUALITY over QUANITY" yet so there it is. I use my RockChucker for everything. Yes it is slow, but it is very precise. I do a good bit of precision shooting with my 300 RUM and the last time I ran it through a chrono I was with-in 5 FPS out of 10 rounds. Not bad when I'm running a 180 GR nosler at 3346fps. Yes, it is slow, YES it gets the job done. And if you decide that reloading just isn't for you your not out a poop-ton of cash. My .02.
Too_Pure
Member
Of my Lee anniversary kit I use only the primer feeder now.
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Too_Pure
Member
+1 on the classic turret. Currently my second iteration of reloading and very happy with it.
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Turret presses can operate like a single stage. You just leave the die in use in position and process the brass through. For Lee turret presses, you have to disable the auto index feature to use them as a single stage.
Since the Dillon 550 is a manual index, it works fine as a single stage.
I suppose you could operate a Hornady L-N-L as a single stage. If you were to leave the retaining spring off the shell plate then you could insert a case at any point around the shell plate, run it through the appropriate die and remove it after the operation is performed. I would not recommend disabling the auto index though as I have read it can be frustrating to get back in time.
Another recommendation, if you perform single steps on the L-N-L, I would recommend charging the case off the press. If on the press, handling the charged cases more than necessary may lead to spilling the case and making a mess and a potential for squib loads. Priming could be done on the press but i suspect it would be more efficient to prime off the press if you are not loading progressively.
One advantage to the Hornady is that it is easy to place dies any where in the press and move them around as desired.
I reload on my Hornady L-N-L by resizing all my brass at one time, then clean it. At a later time, I prime, charge, seat the bullet, and finally crimp. The powder measure and case mouth expander die occupy the same station although at different times. But, since I am performing two or operations during each of my two processes, I run the cases completely through all five stations as a convenience.
I do prime off line because the press mounted priming system and I do not get along but lots of folks have little or no issues with the primer systems.
Hope this makes sense.
dmazur
Member
I can only answer for the 550B with personal experience, but it is probably true for other progressives (perhaps with minor modifications).
I used the 550B in two different ways while I was learning, before running it to create "one round per handle pull" -
1. Pull the indexing buttons at stations 2-4. Work out of loading blocks in batch mode and resize/deprime/reprime, then powder charge, then seat, then crimp. Station 1 is easier for case insertion as it is designed for it, but the other stations permit insertion / removal if the index button is removed.
2. Leave the indexing buttons in, but run one case through the press with 4 handle pulls, watching each operation, then start a new case in station 1.
So, yes, there are at least two ways to use a progressive press so it is doing only one operation per handle pull. The first way is more like a single stage, while the second way is perhaps more like an indexing turret press.
dmazur, My idea was your option 2. Running one case through all the functions and keeping an eye on each stage as it is performed. Once the press is set up I don't think it would be much more detailed than doing batches with a single stage? The more proficient and comfortable a person becomes more cases can be loaded at a time.
Dumb question - the powder doesn't drop unless a case is detected, right?
cfullgraf, dmazur - thanks for the detailed responses. To the op, once again, sorry for the hijack and I hope these questions are relevant to you.
Dumb question - the powder doesn't drop unless a case is detected, right?
cfullgraf, dmazur - thanks for the detailed responses. To the op, once again, sorry for the hijack and I hope these questions are relevant to you.
dmazur
Member
Yes, the powder measure is typically "case actuated", so there is no powder charge performed at an empty station.
I believe this part of the design is intended to let you start and finish a run, where all of the stations cannot be occupied by a case.
I believe this part of the design is intended to let you start and finish a run, where all of the stations cannot be occupied by a case.
dbarnhart
Member
>>I guess I'm not really looking at reloading as a hobby. I want to reload so I can enjoy more of what I really want to do...go shooting.<<
We;; yes. That's one of the two kinds of people who are reloaders. (The other kind shoot so they can reload more.)
Here's the thing about reloading presses: They are all different. Each has its pros and cons and compromises. Once you've been reloading on a single-stage press for a while you'll be better able to determine what you want from a progressive press. Then you can pick the press that best meets your particular needs.
We;; yes. That's one of the two kinds of people who are reloaders. (The other kind shoot so they can reload more.)
Here's the thing about reloading presses: They are all different. Each has its pros and cons and compromises. Once you've been reloading on a single-stage press for a while you'll be better able to determine what you want from a progressive press. Then you can pick the press that best meets your particular needs.
As said, current production progressive presses do not drop powder unless a case is present.
But, the primer system may be a bit problematic if it is cycled without priming a case.
Since I do not use the press mounted priming system, my memory is a bit fuzzy and I do not have first hand experience. But I remember reading some threads where folks have had trouble when the press is cycled through the priming station without a case. But, I have slept since then.
Maybe someone else will chime in.
Blue68f100
Member
The primers are not a problem on a LNL-AP, even if your doing the forward stroke. It will only dispense a primer when there is brass ready to receive one. If un-primed or primed it will simply not go down.
Those using the strips may be different.
Those using the strips may be different.
dmazur
Member
The priming system on the 550B doesn't care if you use the primer or not. When it is properly set up, the priming system only feeds an empty primer cup.
So, if for some reason you want to watch a single round go through all 4 stations, the 550B will do it without special adjustments.
This model requires you to push the handle forward slightly after doing the full down and up stroke. That's the action that seats the primer at Station 1.
If Station 1 is empty, the primer rises into the nonexistent case, then goes back down into the cup. When the handle does the next full stroke, it retracts into position below the primer magazine, does nothing, then reappears with the same primer...
This primer push action also operates the "fail safe return rod" on the powder measure, so it is important to do it even if you aren't seating a primer. Yes, it's kind of silly to do when there are no cases at Station 1 or Station 2, but it is a good habit (for this press) to just do the primer push after every full stroke of the handle.
So, if for some reason you want to watch a single round go through all 4 stations, the 550B will do it without special adjustments.
This model requires you to push the handle forward slightly after doing the full down and up stroke. That's the action that seats the primer at Station 1.
If Station 1 is empty, the primer rises into the nonexistent case, then goes back down into the cup. When the handle does the next full stroke, it retracts into position below the primer magazine, does nothing, then reappears with the same primer...
This primer push action also operates the "fail safe return rod" on the powder measure, so it is important to do it even if you aren't seating a primer. Yes, it's kind of silly to do when there are no cases at Station 1 or Station 2, but it is a good habit (for this press) to just do the primer push after every full stroke of the handle.
Flatbush Harry
Member
I'd recommend you start with a good kit from Big Green (RCBS), Big Orange (Lyman), Big Red (Hornady) or Lee. Also, I think a single stage press is the right starting point for most...it will help keep you focused and let you determine how much you really want to do. I began 35 years ago with an RCBS RockChucker for .44 and .45 revolvers and batched each step. Currently, I have two turret presses, a Lyman T-Mag and a RCBS turret, each with multiple heads so I keep all nine calibers for which I reload on a separate head for easy, quick install.
Now I load primarily to produce excellent quality ammo for each of my guns (save for .40S&W) for which I stay with factory loads. Yesterday for example, I was testing hunting loads for my Savage 116 in .30-06 and was getting 0.3" groups with 168 gr SMKs and 3/4" groups with 168gr Barnes TTSXs...both a lot better than I can get from factory loads. I only shoot a couple or three times per week so huge volume is not necessary. For those who need it, progressives are the answer, but I'd wait until I had some experience before going that route.
Good luck and best wishes,
FH
Now I load primarily to produce excellent quality ammo for each of my guns (save for .40S&W) for which I stay with factory loads. Yesterday for example, I was testing hunting loads for my Savage 116 in .30-06 and was getting 0.3" groups with 168 gr SMKs and 3/4" groups with 168gr Barnes TTSXs...both a lot better than I can get from factory loads. I only shoot a couple or three times per week so huge volume is not necessary. For those who need it, progressives are the answer, but I'd wait until I had some experience before going that route.
Good luck and best wishes,
FH
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