Need avice on reinforcing an interior door for gun storage

[Trebor]

I have an old bedroom I'm using for my "gun room." I'd like to increase my security above just my safe by reinforcing or replacing the door.

Right now the door is a standard hollow-core interior grade door. I installed a deadbolt with 3" screws, but the door could still be forced in relatively easily if someone were determind.

My first thought is to replace the whole door with an exterior rated solid door or even a reinforced metal door. I'd also want a high grade deadbolt. Can this type of door be mounted inside in a house?

And, yes, I know that "they could still go through the wall." I'm just trying to put on a door that can't be kicked in or forced open to keep out the "smash and grab" thieves. I figure if the door holds them up for at least 5 or 10 minutes, then they get in and find the safe, maybe they'll be out of time by then.

I would want to avoid having to tear out part of the wall to enlage the doorframe if I can due to the added expense.

Thoughts from anyone who is a contractor or knows more about home construction or door security are especially welcome.

 

[chipperi]

Doors are usually standard sizes so an exterior door should mount up just fine inside. Doors usually come prehung so after hanging it I would replace the screws that hold the door hinge to the frame with the longest thickest screws I could find so they penetrate the frame and go well into the rough in framing to prevent being kicked in. I use to be a firefighter so I know from experience that the door usually fails at the hinges not the lock.

 

[un_lucky]

should be no problem installing ext door. A keyless dead bolt would be ideal imho.

 

[OOOXOOO]

I have installed interior and exterior doors. You could install an exterior door if you have a door size you can find in stock. The bad part is doors are only as strong as the case. It is just as easy to kick through an interior door as it is to split the case of an exterior door. The best security wise would be a security screen door that would fit out side the door. It would need to open away from the room so it could not be kicked in. This won't be pretty but it will slow down access. 3" screws really don't help hold the door in because they are just going into a 2x4. When someone does kick the door it just splits the 2x4 and now you have to replace the door the case and reframe the doorframe. I have yet to see an interior door that will hold up to more than one kick(most exterior doors are the same).

 

[TehK1w1]

+1 on OOOXOOO's comment. I think that you would probably have to replace both sides of the door frame with 4x4s(at least) if you wanted to have any chance of keeping someone out for more than a few seconds. If you only reinforce the door and hinges, the frame would probably break quite easily

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Install a prehung steel door with security pegs. Or install the security pegs yourself. See the link, scroll down 2/3's to the "Door Hinge" section.

http://www.latimore.org/services/police/articles/security.html

 

[whosyrdaddy]

Order a pre-hung exterior steel door, minus the sill. Order it as an out-swing with NRP (non removable pin) hinges and have it bored for a deadbolt. Then install it using 3.5" screws Be sure to shim behind the hinges and directly above and below the strike mortises in the jamb. Also be sure to use the long screws and security plate that come with your deadbolt.

 

[tblt]

If you put pegs in dont misplace the key

 

[CypherNinja]

OOOXOOO's comments highlight an important fact. True security doors are VERY rare in residential installations. You will NOT find one at Home Depot. No matter what the label says.

Seriously, I'd find out exactly how the door frame/case is put together. Then go to a security professional/locksmith. Describe to him what you have now, and what you're goals are. He'll be able to tell you if it is "worth it," and exactly what it will take ($) to meet your goals, whether you enlist his help or not. He'll be a good source of an-honest-to-goodness-not-fooling-around-commercial-grade-SECURITY-DOOR either way.

OOOXOOO or others will be able to explain more about how interior doorways are built, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it'll take some work to make sure it's strong enough.

When you increase the strength of the door/frame the issue simply moves to the next weakest link. There's no point in the expensive door and frame if a fat guy using all his weight can knock the entire frame right out of the wall with a few serious blows.

So yeah, finding a security door/frame combo will be relatively easy (Don't go to Home Depot!!!), but mounting it in the doorway will require upgrades to the case in order to make it worth it.

 

[Goblin]

Jeff Cooper used a wrought iron gate to block access to his bedroom.It would swing back against the hall wall when not locked.

 

[brickeyee]

You can kick through a regular drywall installation so easily that hardening a door in a plain drywall wall is a waste of time.

If you have steel studs and #9 expanded metal screen welded to the studs to make a complete container a stronger door might be justified.

 

[rainman500_0]

There is a roll up that mounts inside the room if your door opens out. We have used a heavy guage expanded metal behind sheetrock and above the ceiling in a secure areas. Once i had to used 12 guage steel studs with 1/4" steel plate welded on and heavy screws to install drywall.

 

[HB]

Jeff Cooper used a wrought iron gate to block access to his bedroom.It would swing back against the hall wall when not locked.

That may be a little excessive

 

[Threeband]

Standard exterior doors are 1 3/4" thick, while interior doors are 1 3/8". So replacing one with the other is not straightforward.

If you harden the door, I suspect even a 16 year old punk is likely to kick a hole in the sheetrock, if only from curiosity.

I've seen ads in the back of gun magazines for those roll-up doors, but there's no point unless you do something about the walls, if not the ceiling.

There are devices which flood a room with pepper spray. They might just annoy some people, and motivate them to burn your house down. They would also add a new level of interest to a false alarm.
http://www.stopthecrime.com/default.htm

How about multiple levels of security?

Keep the hollow-core door. Put a simple lock on it, just to guard against accidental opening.

Rig up a radio-shack type do-it-yourself alarm that sets off a remote siren outside the house.

Inside the room, mount two RSC type "safes", maybe Zanottis or Dakotas (search the MANY threads here on "safes", such as
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4336122#post4336122).

Bolt them to floors and walls FACING each other, with just enough space between to open the doors. This limits the working space for anyone swinging a sledge hammer.

Build a hardened CLOSET around the RSCs. Incorporate plywood, steel mesh, even fiberglass rods and glass panels (to discourage sawzalls). Try to set everything up to limit working space for sledgehammers and wrecking bars.


In some other location, maybe in another room, mount one of THESE as a diversion:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/TRAP414-1.html
Put some low-value beaters in it like Mosins or WASRs , or even DEWATs, all chained together with a cable through the trigger guards. Mount them in a stout cabinet with a lexan front and a seperate alarm.

Disguise the hardened closet, if possible. Block access with a large terrarium containing your pet snakes.

(I once read about a big-time professional burglar/safecracker who defeated several layers of security to get into a room containing a large safe. He was dismayed to find, on top of the safe and chained to it, a live LYNX, curled up sleeping. The burglar crept away as quietly as he had come.)

 

[Trebor]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm going to do some more research and talk to a contractor I know who gives me a good rate before I make any decisions.

I agree that if you reinforce the door, the drywall becomes the weak spot. But, it is going to take someone more time to kick through the drywall and studs to make a hole large enough to crawl through then it would for them to kick down the existing door. So, while the wall itself is still a weak spot, in my mind that doesn't make reinforcing the door pointless.

I mean, you kick in a door, and you have a door size hole to go through. You kick in drywall, and you have a foot size hole you to enlarge and get around the studs, etc.

I am going to check though to make sure that a new door and frame can be reinforced adequately so that they can't just knock the frame out of the wall, as has been suggested. That wouldn't help me much.

I am a believer in layered security as well. This is to keep them out of the room the safe and guns are kept in in the first place. Once in, then they have to defeat the safe.

I'm making the rounds of the local Lock and Safe guys now looking for a suitable actual used *safe* and not a RSC. So far the problem is that the ones I've found have been on the small side, but the places I've talked to say larger ones do come in, so it's just a matter of making the rounds and calling to find the right used one when it hits their inventory. I researched new ones and can only afford a used one.

 

[Zip7]

I like the Lynx idea...

As for creative security measures, when I was in grade school, one of my friend's dad had a Cadillac - when not too many people had them. Someone stole his tires - twice in a short period of time. He reported it to the cops, but nothing ever happened, and so he took some industrial razor blades and mounted them inside the low fender well where just the edges were sticking out. After the third tire stealing attempt, he still had his tires, and lots of DNA evidence too.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I agree that if you reinforce the door, the drywall becomes the weak spot. But, it is going to take someone more time to kick through the drywall and studs to make a hole large enough to crawl through then it would for them to kick down the existing door. So, while the wall itself is still a weak spot, in my mind that doesn't make reinforcing the door pointless.

No, it is not.

The wall studs are 16" apart, which is plenty wide enough for all but a very fat person to just walk between. Kicking a hole through drywall takes virtually no effort whatsoever. The time for a thief to smash through a drywall partition is not measured in minutes, it is measured in seconds ... and probably doesn't go beyond single digits.

 

[plainsbilly]

cheap and easy way to secure the door and yes I do know it will look bad but it works for me outward opening exterior door with non revable hinge pins. Then here's the kicker , screw a steel deadbolt plate to floor and add a second dead bolt to the bottom of the door and then at the top of the door 2"x4"x3/16"angle iron screwed to the top of the door frame under the inside trim then add a third deadbolt to the top of the door. FYI it cost me all of $25 dollars for a three pack of keyed alike deadbolts at home depot but the expanded metal under the drywall cost about $750 5 years ago. if you want to save some $$$ just go with hardware mesh under the drywall(price expanded metal and youl find out how much it costs now

 

[Trebor]

Hmmn, wall studs are 16" apart? I didn't know that. I'll get out the stud finder and confirm that for my house. That does change things somewhat.

Thanks.

 

[makarovnik]

Double studded frame with a metal door and jamb should do the trick. What about some type of hidden door? Maybe cover it with a bookshelf that has lockable wheels and an easily removable toe kick to cover them?

 

[Trebor]

Can't hide the door. It's in the middle of a hallway and there is no room for anything in front of the door. That, and it's pretty obvious there *should* be a door there if I did plaster the whole door over or something...

 

[Madison_ultralight]

Ditto on the weak drywall. I once lived in a duplex townhouse-style apartment complex and one evening I came home to find the landlord in my house patching a giant hole in the wall. The neighbors were "wrestling" and had crashed through both layers of the drywall and into my living room. I didn't live there long after that because I figured someone would hear about it and realize how easy it would be to rob 4 places at once.

I actually cut out the drywall behind my safe to get it directly on the studs. I built the closet shelves around it in such a way that a thief would waste a lot of time trying to get to the back of it with the intent of turning it over. Only then would he realize that he would have to punch out some drywall and get it off of the studs first. I just want it to be as tough as possible to steal my stuff as most crooks are lazy.

BTW. Make sure to use big lag bolts or, better yet, bolts and nylocks with big washers. Also attach it to the wall since 2 big guys could put a LOT of leverage on the thing to get it to turn over and pull the lags out of a wood floor if you don't happen to hit a joist.

 

[Noxx]

Studs "were" on 16", in new construction it's very common to find them on 24".

As far as hardening a room, well it's a matter of the time and $$ you're willing to invest. Sheetrock is cheap and easy to install, so don't discard seemingly radical ideas like stripping the room interior down and reinforcing the beejesus out of it.

One common and not very expensive technique is to "shear" a common wall by removing the drywall on one or both sides, and adding heavy plywood paneling before replacing the drywall. Along with this it is common to add a 2x4 on each side of the existing studs so that the shear panels have over 2" to "bite" on rather than the 13/16 offered by half of a standard 2x4 (which is actually 1 5/8" wide, go figure).

When adding studs, either 2x or 4x to an existing wall, it is my preference to drill and bolt those suckers together, rather than nailing, YMMV. Also feel free to run heavy rebar, RMC, or anything else you can think of laterally between studs to defeat any wiseass with a Sawzall.

I helped a friend harden his master bedroom, and not only did we rebuild the walls, we poured em full of quickcrete, and the attic over that room is 1) covered in plywood and 2) full of cyclone wire.

A bit much? Perhaps, but he sleeps quite soundly.

 

[FM12]

Also consider a couple of layers of drywall around your firearms storage area...gives great fire protection, at least.

 

[hso]

Yes, 16" to 24" centers for interior framing studs is common. 24" is common if the wall is not load bearing. So, YES it does only take seconds to kick through dry wall with heavy boots or seconds if you're carrying anything like a framing hammer.

No, you can't easily exchange an exterior door for an interior door. As said, the sizes on frames are different. You have to take out the interior door and frame and mount a preframed exterior door in it's place. When you pull the old door you'll find that it's held in place with a single 2x4 on each side. Double those up and screw them together with deck screws and toe them in with deck screws. Then mount your door frame to the doubled up studs with 4" or 6" deck screws. If you don't mind re-drywalling the interior wall the door is in you can use deck screws to mount plywood on the wall the door is in. Then you mount you drywall and finish. While the hall drywall can be kicked through, the plywall layer screwed to the studs will take much longer to get through with anything short of a saw-sall or ax.